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A step closer to self administered oath: Online Oath Ceremony without an authorised individual 30 day Consultation

shiremag

Champion Member
Jun 14, 2022
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But the gazette proposed says oath can be taken inside or outside canada , isn’t it true ?
It depends on how the rule will be implemented. It may only be allowed in very rare circumstances and for very specific reasons.
Nothing is guaranteed
As of now you'll need to be on Canadian Soil to be able to naturalise and complete your oath ceremony
 

derkdsou

Champion Member
Oct 3, 2018
1,069
2,267
You're right, the proposal did mention that a self-administered oath may be taken either inside or outside of Canada. But we don't know what final text will be adopted after the public comments and feedback are incorporated, and I'm usually pessimistic on these things. We'll just have to wait and see till June 7 or 21 or beyond for this to go through.

But the gazette proposed says oath can be taken inside or outside canada , isn’t it true ?
 

shiremag

Champion Member
Jun 14, 2022
1,325
893
You're right, the proposal did mention that a self-administered oath may be taken either inside or outside of Canada. But we don't know what final text will be adopted after the public comments and feedback are incorporated, and I'm usually pessimistic on these things. We'll just have to wait and see till June 7 or 21 or beyond for this to go through.
Correct! And even if the rule is published, they may not have the necessary software ready to practically implement this rule right away.... it may take weeks if not months for them to have a minimum viable product to get this going... IRCC is very slow in rolling out new things
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Some Highlights and General Observations:

Proposed changes to the regulations are likely to come into force in June, 2023 (as indicated in officially published notice in February). They may even come into force BEFORE we see them published in the Gazette (I am not sure of current lag times, if any now, between when the new regulations are officially "registered" and when published in the Gazette), but at the latest that will be is the day they are published in the Gazette (unless section 5 in the proposed amendments is revised), since that will be the version actually registered. And, again, as stated in the February notice, this is scheduled for June.

That does not mean the anticipated changes in policies and practices in actual administration of the oath will happen immediately or even soon. Moreover, the new regulations give the Minister very broad discretion to make changes in policies and practices, especially as to the particular manner and means of administering the oath, so whatever changes happen soon, they could be replaced by later changes WITHOUT further NOTICE.

That's the real meat, and the potatoes and gravy too, of the proposed regulations, giving the Minister very broad discretion in making the rules. From the officially published notice:
Objective -- The purpose of the amendments to the Regulations is to add flexibility in how the Oath of Citizenship can be taken, including in the presence or not of an authorized person.​
Description -- Amendments to the Citizenship Regulations are needed to provide flexibility in how the Oath of Citizenship is taken and to give the Minister discretion in determining how the requirements for taking the Oath are to be met.

Most of the particular details governing how the oath is administered in the current (to be replaced) regulations, thus governed by regulation, will be determined by the Minister going forward. So future changes will not require the formal procedures applicable to changing the regulations. No required public notice in advance. The Minister will have the discretion, very broad discretion, to dictate how, when, by what means, and so on, the oath is taken. Presumably such changes will be published, probably as PDIs, but that could be the day the changes are put into effect, or publication could lag behind implementation of the Minister's changes.

Those pleased to see a more flexible, liberal approach, may be pleased with what the Minister actually implements. But of course that will depend in large part on what policies and practices the Minister actually does implement.
For example: while I do not know how the current government will approach whether to allow Section 5(1) grants of citizenship (the type which the vast majority of forum participants are applying for) to take the oath outside Canada, similar to how Section 5(2) and, 5(4) grants are currently allowed under the existing (to be replaced) regulations, but it would be little if any surprise at all if the newly adopted means of taking the oath still retains this distinction, NOT facilitating taking oath outside Canada for 5(1) grants, while still facilitating taking the oath outside Canada for Section 5(2) and, 5(4) grants.​

It warrants noting that the current Liberal government is a minority government, and is one with a rather vulnerable hold that could be forced into facing another election just about anytime. No crystal ball necessary to apprehend what direction changes are likely to take when a new Conservative Minister is holding the reins and can make changes without notice, without public consultation, without the transparency that amending regulations inherently involves. Has anyone ever mentioned that sometimes it is wise to exercise caution in what you wish for?


Hello will this pass soon , I am outside canada and missed one oath invite , I want to take from outside country due to personal reasons can’t travel
The official notice of proposed regulation, published in February in the Gazette Part I, Volume 157, Number 8 (copy published here: https://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2023/2023-02-25/html/reg1-eng.html ) specifically indicates that the proposed regulation is expected to come into force in June 2023. So, soon.

It is possible this does not happen in June, that perhaps some revisions/modifications are being considered, and there could even be another round of "proposed" regulations published and open to comment resulting in this being delayed many more months. But this seems unlikely. It is far more likely that, just as the official notice stated, the proposed regulations will be "registered," taking effect as of registration, and accordingly published, and that this happens in June.

A big part of why it is likely that the proposed regulations (as published in February) will be adopted and come into force, without further changes (not sure to what extent clerical, non-substantive changes may be done), is that the proposed changes as published are obviously broad enough to give the Minister plenty of leeway to regulate the administration of the oath by various means and methods. I discussed this above.

But the gazette proposed says oath can be taken inside or outside canada , isn’t it true ?
Not exactly. The new version of Section 19(1) in the Citizenship Regulations effectively consolidates the current (soon to be former) Section 19 (governing Citizenship Act Section 5(1) grants) and Section 20 (governing Citizenship Act Section 5(2) and 5(4) grants), instead of specifically distinguishing these, which under the current regulations allow for the administration of the oath outside Canada for the latter, but does not for the former (for the general, adult applicant, that is Section 5(1) grants).

Even under the current regulations the Minister may specifically allow Section 5(1) applicants to take the oath outside Canada, but this is a highly unusual exception which, so far as we have seen, is RARELY, as in VERY RARELY done (in addition to a couple cases reported in news media, there have been maybe two or four anecdotal claims here in the forum).

Again, I do not know, but it would be no surprise, none at all, if whatever the means "specified by the Minister" under the new regulations perpetuate this difference, still requiring Section 5(1) grants be consummated by taking the oath while IN Canada.

. . . the proposal did mention that a self-administered oath may be taken either inside or outside of Canada. But we don't know what final text will be adopted after the public comments and feedback are incorporated, and I'm usually pessimistic on these things. We'll just have to wait and see till June 7 or 21 or beyond for this to go through.
Yeah. The amended regulations will allow the Minister to adopt means which could include allowing the oath to be taken outside Canada for Section 5(1) grants as well as Section 5(2) and 5(4) grants. Again, should be no surprise if that is not a change the Minister makes.

It depends on how the rule will be implemented. It may only be allowed in very rare circumstances and for very specific reasons.
Nothing is guaranteed
As of now you'll need to be on Canadian Soil to be able to naturalise and complete your oath ceremony
Yep. Now (as of when the amended regulations come into force), the Minister makes the rules.

And we have yet to see what those rules will be. Might not happen for awhile, even quite a long while. And what gets implemented might not look a whole lot different than what is currently done. The self-administered oath, for example, could still be online and still require the candidate be IN Canada . . . the substantive change coming to the IRCC side of that.
 

yyzstudent

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2015
1,334
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https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6865181 A new article about it. If approved, the changes to the citizenship regulations would come into effect as early as this month at a cost of about $5 million over 10 years.
Well, that prompted me to send in a web form to humbly request to not be scheduled for either virtual nor self-administered. I want the in person open to the public so my friends can attend. I was going to hold off until LPP was done, but nah. I'm not going to risk having this process end with a "pfft" when I want it to end with a "bang".
 

forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
6,901
2,807
Well, that prompted me to send in a web form to humbly request to not be scheduled for either virtual nor self-administered. I want the in person open to the public so my friends can attend. I was going to hold off until LPP was done, but nah. I'm not going to risk having this process end with a "pfft" when I want it to end with a "bang".
4 months done and still they have not scheduled my oath. I am now ready to click any link and get over with it :D
No patience left for virtual or in-person now.
 

walter_white

Hero Member
Aug 30, 2019
307
255
I’m happy to wait. This is decades in the making. So what’s a few more months?
For most people including myself, it's about getting that passport in hand. If given a choice between waiting months for showing off feeling proud vs clicking on a checkbox to get it done within a few days, I would definitely choose the latter. Not that I prefer that, but with the inefficiency and unnecessary delays, that's the choice I would personally make.
 

yyzstudent

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2015
1,334
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For most people including myself, it's about getting that passport in hand. If given a choice between waiting months for showing off feeling proud vs clicking on a checkbox to get it done within a few days, I would definitely choose the latter. Not that I prefer that, but with the inefficiency and unnecessary delays, that's the choice I would personally make.
That’s ok.

I’ve waited decades for this and I’m old enough to appreciate traditions when it comes to citizenship.
 
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Dr. Walden

Hero Member
Apr 27, 2020
399
704
Vancouver, BC
That’s ok.

I’ve waited decades for this and I’m old enough to appreciate traditions when it comes to citizenship.
I hear you mate! And, personally, would prefer an in-person citizenship ceremony. However, many folks need to travel, whether on personal affairs or for work. So it all comes down to convenience, after all. Back in the day, when IRCC was efficient and transparent - yes. I would absolutely go for an in-person ceremony. Nevertheless, now we are all like stray dogs waiting for a bone thrown at us from IRCC at any time. So whatever comes my way from IRCC, I'll take it for the sake just to be done with them.
 

Americanwife94

Star Member
Jun 5, 2016
177
235
That’s ok.

I’ve waited decades for this and I’m old enough to appreciate traditions when it comes to citizenship.
I would love an in person ceremony because I know it would be so special for me and mean so much because I’ve assigned it that meaning as you have. Personally I don’t need it for travel because I don’t travel much right now, but I value the tradition because of what having citizenship stands for. But of course I would do a virtual oath ceremony tomorrow if they asked. I do not want to do a click oath because I would feel a bit let down at the end.
 
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yyzstudent

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2015
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I hear you mate! And, personally, would prefer an in-person citizenship ceremony. However, many folks need to travel, whether on personal affairs or for work. So it all comes down to convenience, after all. Back in the day, when IRCC was efficient and transparent - yes. I would absolutely go for an in-person ceremony. Nevertheless, now we are all like stray dogs waiting for a bone thrown at us from IRCC at any time. So whatever comes my way from IRCC, I'll take it for the sake just to be done with them.
As I said, that’s ok. You do you.
 

yyzstudent

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2015
1,334
703
I would love an in person ceremony because I know it would be so special for me and mean so much because I’ve assigned it that meaning as you have. Personally I don’t need it for travel because I don’t travel much right now, but I value the tradition because of what having citizenship stands for. But of course I would do a virtual oath ceremony tomorrow if they asked. I do not want to do a click oath because I would feel a bit let down at the end.
Indeed. I’m in no rush to travel. My industry is pretty much down and not operational as one department union is on strike. I’ll probably be back to work in September. So I’m putting around at home, resting, and getting ready for when we go back to work which will be crazy. I might go on vacation at Christmas time.
 
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