PR Card renewal concerns

[scylla]

Thanks everyone... I got it. Last question from here. If my wife travel outside Canada after renewing the PR Card and then she'll come after 2-3 months(lets say). Is it fine if someone courier/ deliver the the PR card backhome and then she travel with that card. will that be ok? she needs the card to re-enter canada right.. please suggest.

Secondly, I heard one can enter Canada through US land border with expired PR card. how that situation exactly works and what needed? just for knowledge purpose I am asking.

Thanks again @canuck78 @YVR123 @scylla . You guys are amazing.

For the first question, yes, someone can courier the card to her outside of Canada, but this is as long as she doesn't get asked to pick up the card in person. Sometimes people are asked to pick up the card in person when they renew.

Yes, you can re-enter Canada through the US/Canada land border without a valid PR card. In terms of how this works, you need to be entering in a private vehicle or by foot (you cannot use public transportation such as a bus). You can show either your COPR or expired PR card. Obviously you would also need a visa to enter the US.

 

[ramansingh05]

For the first question, yes, someone can courier the card to her outside of Canada, but this is as long as she doesn't get asked to pick up the card in person. Sometimes people are asked to pick up the card in person when they renew.

Yes, you can re-enter Canada through the US/Canada land border without a valid PR card. In terms of how this works, you need to be entering in a private vehicle or by foot (you cannot use public transportation such as a bus). You can show either your COPR or expired PR card. Obviously you would also need a visa to enter the US.

Yes ofcourse someone needs a US Visa to enter the US. so they don't the check the RO by entering through own vehicle? so this means if we go to US next month for a day or so by our own vehicle, they'll allow to enter back on a expired card without any concerns? just understanding when they check the RO and when they don't.

 

[scylla]

Yes ofcourse someone needs a US Visa to enter the US. so they don't the check the RO by entering through own vehicle? so this means if we go to US next month for a day or so by our own vehicle, they'll allow to enter back on a expired card without any concerns? just understanding when they check the RO and when they don't.

No, this doesn't mean that you can enter with a vehicle and an expired PR card with no concerns. If the officer believes that RO is not satisifed when you enter through the US/Canada land border, they can still report you for failing to meet the residency obligation.

RO may be checked at any border crossing. There is no "safe" way to enter if you do not meet RO.

 

[ramansingh05]

No, this doesn't mean that you can enter with a vehicle and an expired PR card with no concerns. If the officer believes that RO is not satisifed when you enter through the US/Canada land border, they can still report you for failing to meet the residency obligation.

RO may be checked at any border crossing. There is no "safe" way to enter if you do not meet RO.

oh ok.. got it. Report means they'll send back to the home country and has to redo all the PR process or they allow in the country but they keep an eye etc.?
PS: I am talking about the person who lives in Canada and bought a house, paying the taxes etc not someone living for some benefits.

 

[armoured]

Thanks everyone... I got it. Last question from here. If my wife travel outside Canada after renewing the PR Card and then she'll come after 2-3 months(lets say). Is it fine if someone courier/ deliver the the PR card backhome and then she travel with that card. will that be ok? she needs the card to re-enter canada right.. please suggest.

Yes, that is fine.

Secondly, I heard one can enter Canada through US land border with expired PR card. how that situation exactly works and what needed? just for knowledge purpose I am asking.

Have to arrive on foot or by 'private vehicle' (scheduled transport like trains and planes will require valid PR card).

You show up at the Canadian border, show your expired PR card (and other ID like forn passport of course), and say you don't have your card. If applied for renewal, will help to say so and even show copy of renewal docs. They will usually look this up on computer (to confirm person is a PR). It might be slower if they decide to send you to secondary for more detailed look at file.

They WILL admit someone who is a PR. Someone who is not in compliance with RO may or may not be reported, separate issue.

 

[scylla]

oh ok.. got it. Report means they'll send back to the home country and has to redo all the PR process or they allow in the country but they keep an eye etc.?
PS: I am talking about the person who lives in Canada and bought a house, paying the taxes etc not someone living for some benefits.

No.

Report means that they will submit a report that you have failed to meet the residency obligation which will trigger the process to revoke your PR status.

You will be allowed into Canada. However you will have to

The safest thing to do is not to travel until you meet RO. If you travel and don't meet RO, there is a risk of problems.

 

[armoured]

oh ok.. got it. Report means they'll send back to the home country and has to redo all the PR process or they allow in the country but they keep an eye etc.?
PS: I am talking about the person who lives in Canada and bought a house, paying the taxes etc not someone living for some benefits.

Formally reporting: you get the 44(1) notice - but will be admitted subject to appeal of that decision (which, unappealed, revokes PR status after 30 (?) days). Appeal can take months and the PR is legally living in Canada during that period.

'Lives in Canada etc' - perhaps would influence likelihood of leniency, along with other humanitarian and compassionate considerations. No-one can tell you how that will go. yes, evidence of really living in Canada, employment, small non-compliance, etc., will likely help - both at border and in event of appeal.

 

[armoured]

PS: I am talking about the person who lives in Canada and bought a house, paying the taxes etc not someone living for some benefits.

To reiterate a point as you are posting about a couple different cases, it seems:
-formally, having a valid PR card or not DOES NOT mean you are compliant or not compliant.
-you need the PR card to board a plane to Canada (or other 'scheduled transport').
-likewise, appearing at a border with an expired PR card DOES NOT mean you are compliant or not compliant.

There may be a presumption by the CBSA officers that someone with a valid card, particularly a recently-renewed card, is probably in compliance. They may look at someone with a card that expires 'soon' needs to be checked a bit more. That's just a difference in probabilities though (and possibly not a large one).

What matters is compliance: number of days outside (inside) Canada in five years from the date of appearing in front of a CBSA officer. if out of compliance, they will have to consider 'h&c' reasons, basically whether to give leniency.

There are plenty of threads here on this subject ie. what happens if out of compliance by a lot/a little at border, as well as H&C reasons.

 

[ramansingh05]

To reiterate a point as you are posting about a couple different cases, it seems:
-formally, having a valid PR card or not DOES NOT mean you are compliant or not compliant.
-you need the PR card to board a plane to Canada (or other 'scheduled transport').
-likewise, appearing at a border with an expired PR card DOES NOT mean you are compliant or not compliant.

There may be a presumption by the CBSA officers that someone with a valid card, particularly a recently-renewed card, is probably in compliance. They may look at someone with a card that expires 'soon' needs to be checked a bit more. That's just a difference in probabilities though (and possibly not a large one).

What matters is compliance: number of days outside (inside) Canada in five years from the date of appearing in front of a CBSA officer. if out of compliance, they will have to consider 'h&c' reasons, basically whether to give leniency.

There are plenty of threads here on this subject ie. what happens if out of compliance by a lot/a little at border, as well as H&C reasons.

Got it.. @armoured thanks for detailed explanation but only concern will be I guess person isn't allowed to board the flight lets say from India with an expired PR card. they might create an issue with that. Not sure though...Do you know about it? can we board the flight from any country with an expired PR ..card

 

[Ponga]

You mean the RO? yes.
You do not need a valid PR card. (expired PR card or COPR are accepted.)
But afterall, CBSA can still check your RO.

Not sure if the actual Residency Obligation is checked, especially if the PR has a valid PR Card. If the card is expired (which can still be used to enter Canad even at an airport PIK) it will likely mean a referral to Secondary Inspection where CBSA will probably investigate and/or question the PR.

 

[armoured]

Got it.. @armoured thanks for detailed explanation but only concern will be I guess person isn't allowed to board the flight lets say from India with an expired PR card. they might create an issue with that. Not sure though...Do you know about it? can we board the flight from any country with an expired PR ..card

usually generally almost-always a PR with an expired card, or without a card, will NOT be allowed to board the flight. (Exception is US citizens who are also PRs).

Do they make mistakes sometimes? Sure. But I would definitely not count on it - if anything they tend to being a bit more strict than the rules (which are clear in case of PRs - they need valid cards) or in case of doubt. The airlines can get fined if they make a mistake on who is allowed to board a plane to Canada - valid visa or other similar required. And the fines are not trivial.

And to underline again: a PR with a valid card but out of compliance should be allowed to board the flight. A PR who does not have a valid card, regardless of compliance, should not be.

 

[scylla]

Got it.. @armoured thanks for detailed explanation but only concern will be I guess person isn't allowed to board the flight lets say from India with an expired PR card. they might create an issue with that. Not sure though...Do you know about it? can we board the flight from any country with an expired PR ..card

You will not be allowed to board a flight to Canada with an expired PR card.

You must have either a valid PR card or a valid PRTD to be allowed to board a flight.

 

[armoured]

You will not be allowed to board a flight to Canada with an expired PR card.

You must have either a valid PR card or a valid PRTD to be allowed to board a flight.

This puts it more succinctly and correctly - you will not/should not be allowed to board a flight with an expired PR card.

My allowance for 'mistakes' was only to address that sometimes people report here 'they didn't show it' or some other. Those anecdotes should be treated as highly doubtful.

I repeat: it is unambiguous that a PR with an expired card (only exception: US citizens) should not be allowed to board. Any deviation from that is just a simple error by gate or bookin agents, and extremely rare.

 

[Ponga]

I repeat: it is unambiguous that a PR with an expired card (only exception: US citizens) should not be allowed to board. Any deviation from that is just a simple error by gate or bookin agents, and extremely rare.

Even a U.S. passport holder/PR is not guaranteed to be able to board without a valid PR card, IF the airline is privy to the person being a PR. They should allow them to board, but not all airline staff understand that a valid U.S. passport (wait for it...) `Trumps' anything else in terms of a valid travel document. LOL!

 

[armoured]

Even a U.S. passport holder/PR is not guaranteed to be able to board without a valid PR card, IF the airline is privy to the person being a PR. They should allow them to board, but not all airline staff understand that a valid U.S. passport (wait for it...) `Trumps' anything else in terms of a valid travel document. LOL!

Yes, as I noted, the airlines tend to interpret more strictly (or at least if-in-doubt, deny) - because it can cost them money if they screw up.