Safe Time to apply for PR Card renewal before the first five-year anniversary of PR landing date.

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

Hi All,
I landed as a Permanent Resident on Aug 10th, 2018, stayed for a week and then went back to my home country. I came back to Canada for good on July 20th, 2021.

• Up until today i.e., May 7th, 2023, I have spent a total of 664 days in Canada from the day I landed.
• Until 10th Aug 2023 (first five years since landing), I have 96 days available on calendar to cover the remaining period of 66 days to meet the threshold of 730 days in Canada. I have not spent more than 1095 days outside Canada since becoming PR.
• I will meet the residency obligation of 730 days in Canada on July 13th, 2023, If I do not travel out of Canada from now until this date
• My PR card expires on Sep 23rd, 2023.

My question is "Is it a good idea to apply for PR card renewal now considering that I have not met the residency threshold of 730 days at present but expected to meet it in the next couple of months". I have not spent more than 1095 days outside Canada since becoming PR although I have not met the residency threshold of 730 days yet. If I wait until July 13th to apply for PR card renewal, I might not get the new card before my planned trip to India on Aug 15th, 2023.

There was a very important thread that talked about this very topic which I am not able to find and hence this new post.

I am thinking of applying early since I might to go for India for a month to 45 days from mid-Aug to end-Sep and need to have the card renewal completed before starting the international trip. If I do not renew my card now, I will have to come back to Canada before Sep 23rd which might not be possible in my case.

 

[IndianBos]

You should have completed 730 days in Canada on or before of date you sign the application for PR card renewal. If its is less, it might automatically go into non-standard processing and you will anyways not get a renewed PR card on time.

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

I understand that a PR holder is compliant with residency obligation in the first-five years since becoming PR as long as he or she has not spent more than 1095 days outside Canada. I have seen posts confirming this, not able to provide reference though.
Another question is if I apply for a new PR card, will my existing card valid till Sep 23, 2023 become invalid?

 

[dpenabill]

My question is "Is it a good idea to apply for PR card renewal now considering that I have not met the residency threshold of 730 days at present but expected to meet it in the next couple of months". I have not spent more than 1095 days outside Canada since becoming PR although I have not met the residency threshold of 730 days yet. If I wait until July 13th to apply for PR card renewal, I might not get the new card before my planned trip to India on Aug 15th, 2023.

There was a very important thread that talked about this very topic which I am not able to find and hence this new post.

Yes, this is a subject that has been discussed at length, in-depth, in numerous topics including some which have been active recently. A little homework could go a long way in helping someone make better decisions.

The basics are straight-forward --

RO Compliance Basics:

-- Up to the fifth year anniversary of the date of landing, a PR is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation as long as the PR has not been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since the date of landing (that is, as long as the PR can possibly be IN Canada at least 730 days by the fifth year anniversary, the PR meets the RO)​

-- As of and after the fifth year anniversary of the date of landing, a PR is in compliance with the PR RO as long as the PR has been IN Canada at least 730 days within the preceding five years​

Inadmissibility Risk Basics:
There is no risk of triggering inadmissibility proceedings when a PR applies for a new PR card as long as the PR:

-- is in compliance with the RO as of the date the PR card application is made, and​

-- the PR continues to be in RO compliance after making the PR card application​

So, it is NOT necessary to have spent 730 days IN Canada to be eligible for a new PR card, as long as the PR has spent enough days IN Canada and there are enough days left on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary to total at least 730 days. (In contrast, if the PR has been outside Canada more than 1095 days since landing, there cannot be enough days left on the calendar for the PR to spend 730 days IN Canada during the first five years.)

BUT the CONVENTIONAL WISDOM . . . the conventional wisdom (which which I agree) is that it is a "good idea" to wait to apply for a new PR card when the PR meets the RO based on days actually IN Canada, rather than relying on credit for future days.

And that goes to your question: "Is it a good idea . . . ?"

Which has been answered:

You should have completed 730 days in Canada on or before of date you sign the application for PR card renewal. If its is less, it might automatically go into non-standard processing and you will anyways not get a renewed PR card on time.

And that answer explains why: the risk that non-routine processing will result in a delay getting a new PR card. That is, there is a substantial risk that applying sooner will not get you a new PR card in time anyway. With a risk it would take significantly longer to get a new card than waiting to apply would.

That said . . . you are in the category of cutting-it-close so at risk for non-routine processing even if you wait longer to make the PR card application. More significantly, in the realm of what is a "good idea," you are cutting-it-close enough that if you need to make an application for a PR TD while abroad, that too could result in longer than a routine processing time.

Another question is if I apply for a new PR card, will my existing card valid till Sep 23, 2023 become invalid?

Your current card will remain valid, up to its expiration date, while the application for a new PR card is pending; and, it should remain valid (again, up to its expiration date) for sixty days past the date that IRCC approves and issues a new PR card.

Some might suggest it would be a "good idea" to schedule your return to Canada before September 23, before your current PR card expires. One person's idea of what is a "good idea" might not seem such a "good idea" to another. Cutting-it-close has risks. As millions discovered in the last few year, what scores and scores have otherwise experienced at various times, stuff happens, the kind of stuff that can delay flights for more than a few hours, for more than a day or three, including personal stuff, like a car crash the day before the scheduled flight.

It is very difficult to second-guess what is a good idea for someone else. This is where personal decision-making, it's-up-to-you, comes into play: you need to read the cards and bet accordingly.


A question for you: a bit more than three months ago you responded to a post by @drdenil, who said their PR card application was "under eligibility review" and you posted you were "in the same boat." What became of that PR card application?

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

A question for you: a bit more than three months ago you responded to a post by @drdenil, who said their PR card application was "under eligibility review" and you posted you were "in the same boat." What became of that PR card application?

@dpenabill The above was for the PR card applications of my wife and daughter since due to some address issues, they were never issued their initial PR cards. I applied for their initial PR cards after 3.5 years of becoming Permanent resident. They got their PR cards in around 3 months.

 

[armoured]

I think this discussion has ever-so-slightly gone a detour due to some semantics about 'what is a good idea.'

I answered largely based on the constraints of this case, to wit, applicant still in compliance but without (yet) the 730 days in-country, but will have those 730 days in about two months, and about one month after that will need to travel for a month or so, ie. at which point will have ~760 days. And likely plan to return another month or so after that, and before PR card expires.

Yes, not 'best'. Perhaps not even 'good'. But not what I'd call 'risky.'

So here in some quick ranking:
-'platonic PR ideal' - never leave Canada after landing, remain for 3 yrs plus, get citizenship, never have to deal with residency obligation at all. Also, we all drive no faster than the speed limit, and all our children are above average.

-some probably simple easy ones only slightly more facts than above: not many questions to ask except how to fill out forms.

-'real life' - a fair bit more complicated.

Within the 'remit' of the facts and questions asked above:
-'good idea' would be to, certainly, apply to renew PR card later, and hold off travel until new PR card received.

If not possible, perhaps nothing is a 'good idea', but:
-applying early to get PR card - early in the sense of soon/now since 664 days in-country through to mid-august anniversary of landing ~755 days, well in compliance (if does not leave Canada before the anniversary of landing). Ideal, no, but not very risky - or at least the only serious risk is whether the PR card issuance will be delayed.
-Notable is that there are only 7 days or so that will start 'expiring' in the compliance day count after that, so as long as applicant stays in Canada to eg August 15 (as planned), there will be sufficient days to be in compliance for months to come.
-Trip home: basically fine if returning before card expiry, with due attention to (ideally) not planning to do so on the day of the card expiry. (Plan can be changed to later date if renewed card received before that).
-due and sufficient attention MUST be paid to point that if applicant here is delayed returning past the date of PR card expiry, and the new one not received in that period, will have to apply for a PRTD - which should be 'safe' in the sense of minimal risk of being denied (in compliance with RO), BUT might not be processed as quickly as one might wish. I.e. there could be delays in returning to Canada, with implicaitons for work, family, etc. Probably not many months, but possibly long enough to be uncomfortable.
-Also worth noting - because of applying before 730+ days in country, and then leaving while it is being processed, the PR card might be delayed (unknown time) and / or held for pickup in Canada. No big deal on its own but may restrict further travel in the [unknown] months to receive.
-Applicant may want to handle differently - to reduce those risks. I'd agree handling a bit differently might be a better or good idea, depending on personal factors.

Now it is, of course, reasonable to point out this isn't ideal and perhaps not 'best' and does have some risks of inconvenience, and does have what some would call operational risk, and does rely on the info provided being substantially correct - esp date counts - with no major changes such as departing before getting the in-country days above 730 + 10 or so for the days that will expire ...

... but with those reasonable caveats, it's not what I'd call bad or risky. Best? No. Best would be remain and get citizenship. Good? Well, average, okay, acceptable, not bad, whatever. Moderate risk of inconvenience, low risk of serious issues. But hardly problematic on the face of it.

Facts could change, and small chnages might have outsized effects in this case - in which case, different decisions may be required. Maybe not a lot of buffer or wiggle room.

Also serious caveat: facts matter, and to extent cases - facts - of other PRs (reading this thread) do not fit within the fairly-tight parameters here, should not be used as an 'example' except perhaps to demonstrate that facts matter.

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

Compared to the last update, I have now completed 691 days in Canada out of the required 730 days. I still have to complete 39 more days within the remaining 66 days till the first five-year anniversary (10th Aug 2023).

 

[armoured]

Compared to the last update, I have now completed 691 days in Canada out of the required 730 days. I still have to complete 39 more days within the remaining 66 days till the first five-year anniversary (10th Aug 2023).

As before - you are in compliance if you remain in Canada. I think it's safe to apply for PR card renewal now, but can't guarantee it won't be delayed. But as long as you are accumulating more days in Canada , for now, you are still strengthening your case. I don't see any good reason for you to delay applying (given that you do anticipate need to travel in coming six months).

As you'll see on the forms, the primary test there is whether you have been outside of Canada for 1095 days or more. That is in compliance of less than 1095 days abroad.

Now, others can agree or not on whether this is the 'best' way to proceed, but it's not really debatable that you are in compliance and eligible to apply for renewal.

While it might be better to not have to travel, or best to wait (until when?), dire warnings are not called for.

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

Hi @armoured Thanks for the quick reply. Can you confirm why you think it might get delayed. Is it because that I have not yet completed 730 days within Canada. Currently it is taking upwards of 3 months to get PR Card renewed. Lets say if I apply now and my application gets delayed, what could be the maximum possible time it could take to renew my card?
I think it might be safe to apply now considering there is initial lead time before the submitted applications are looked at and it might very well be 2 months or more.
Lets say I apply now and they look at my application is last week of July'23 or First week of Aug'23, by that time, I would have met the residency thresold of 730 days in case I do not travel outside Canada from now uptil then.

 

[armoured]

Hi @armoured Thanks for the quick reply. Can you confirm why you think it might get delayed. Is it because that I have not yet completed 730 days within Canada. Currently it is taking upwards of 3 months to get PR Card renewed. Lets say if I apply now and my application gets delayed, what could be the maximum possible time it could take to renew my card?
I think it might be safe to apply now considering there is initial lead time before the submitted applications are looked at and it might very well be 2 months or more.
Lets say I apply now and they look at my application is last week of July'23 or First week of Aug'23, by that time, I would have met the residency thresold of 730 days in case I do not travel outside Canada from now uptil then.

I did not say that I think it may be delayed - nor even that it is probable, only that one cannot guarantee it won't be delayed. Hence any speculation as to why it might be delayed would only be speculation. I think fair to say that more of the cases of ones being delayed seem to include those factually out of compliance or very close to it (I mean more in terms of days than a couple of weeks, although there's no clear line), or applicant appears to not be in Canada and/or basically not be resident in Canada; beyond that, not enough knowledge and it's possible some are just random. (There are perhaps some related issues like whether someone's dates of travel align with what IRCC has, or errors have been made by the applicant, or lots and lots of travel that makes it harder to do the arithmetic and checking, but would also only be guesses).

No way to estimate how long a delay might be. Not gonna guess.

I repeat that I believe it is safe for you to apply - no question. Allowing that a card being delayed is an inconvenience, not a risk to your PR status.

You say: " by that time, I would have met the residency thresold of 730 days in case I do not travel outside Canada from now uptil then."

I underline again: that certainly won't hurt (getting to the 730 dyas), but as or perhaps more importantly, the number of days outside Canada won't have changed in the interim. That is what defines compliance.

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

Thanks @armoured for the detailed reply. I can understand your point of view now. I will go ahead and submit the application for PR card renewal. My existing card is valid till Sep 28th, 2023, so If I apply now, I might get the new card on or slightly after this date.

 

[YVR123]

Thanks @armoured for the detailed reply. I can understand your point of view now. I will go ahead and submit the application for PR card renewal. My existing card is valid till Sep 28th, 2023, so If I apply now, I might get the new card on or slightly after this date.

So you are applying to renew before you meet your RO. Since you landed more than 5 years ago, the date you signed your PR card renewal application is the date that's used to calculate your RO. This will run the risk of getting secondary or longer time to process your application. And from previous posts, these may takes months or year longer than normal PR card renewal.

It's up to you to take the chance. (no one knows for sure if it will take longer time or not)

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

At this point, it has not been 5 years since I became PR. I became PR on 10th Aug 2018. Before completing the first 5 years, I am always in Compliance If I have not spent more than 1095 days outside Canada which is true for me.

 

[YVR123]

At this point, it has not been 5 years since I became PR. I became PR on 10th Aug 2018. Before completing the first 5 years, I am always in Compliance If I have not spent more than 1095 days outside Canada which is true for me.

Ok. then you are fine if it's only been less than 5 years. You can renewal now.

 

[dpenabill]

Compared to the last update, I have now completed 691 days in Canada out of the required 730 days. I still have to complete 39 more days within the remaining 66 days till the first five-year anniversary (10th Aug 2023).

I will go ahead and submit the application for PR card renewal. My existing card is valid till Sep 28th, 2023, so If I apply now, I might get the new card on or slightly after this date.

Concur in thumbs-up so long as there is NO travel planned in the near future, at least none other than brief trips.

Otherwise, a more conservative view:

The conventional wisdom still applies: best approach is to wait to make a PR card application until in compliance with the RO based on days present in Canada (that is, not counting credit for future days on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary of landing).

A big part of what makes that the conventional wisdom is that it is simple and straightforward, not subject to conditions or contingencies. No complicated calculations necessary: when the days in Canada since landing AND within the previous five years (again, BOTH) total at least 730 days, the PR is demonstrably in RO compliance.

Then as long as they PR does not go outside Canada for a period of time resulting in having been IN Canada fewer than 730 days within the previous five years, there is no RO breach, no risk of inadmissibility.

Beyond that, the variables are many, and the nature and extent of risks also varies considerably.

The headliner risk is loss of PR status. There is NO risk of this if the PR is in RO compliance as of the day an application for a new PR card is made (as is the case discussed here) AND the PR continues, thereafter, to be in RO compliance. So, if that is the only risk of concern, @CanadianDreamer@TO can safely proceed with the application . . . again, so long as there are no subsequent absences that result in failing to comply with the RO.

But concerns about the timeline are generally tethered to either planned or potential travel abroad (there is no timeline concern if no travel outside Canada is likely for a good long while). In which cases, when and for how long are key factors. We know for example (acknowledging there is some dissent regarding this), that an extended period of time abroad while a PR card application is in process increases the risk of non-routine processing. How much so, we do not know.

Further Observations:

I disagree that the discussion about what is a "good idea" took a "semantics" detour. Recognizing the scope of contingencies and variable factors in how these things go, and that the actual facts in an individual case can (and often will) make a big difference, but also recognizing it is extremely difficult to quantify the odds, means that what is a good idea for one PR may not be a good idea for another PR even though their circumstances are quite similar. That's not semantics, that is recognizing different PRs can (and, again, many will) have different experiences, different outcomes.

Moreover, it warrants remembering that there is significant variability in the risks themselves, and what is at stake for particular PRs also varies. Note, for example, being outside Canada without a valid PR card can pose a more serious risk for some PRs compared to others. PRs who can travel via the U.S., for example, are only risking the inconvenience of traveling through the U.S. For a PR who cannot travel via the U.S. and who has a job in Canada they need to return to within a tight time frame, ending up having to suffer a potentially slow application process to obtain a PR TD could cost them their job. For some, shrug, there's another job readily available. For others, losing their job could be harsh or even devastating.

For those who choose or are compelled to do some colouring outside the lines (those who cannot always stay in RO compliance, or those needing to travel outside Canada without a valid PR card in possession), that is personal decision-making country, an individual judgment call.