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Do we have to file taxes even though we don't generate any income, anymore?

CorvusCorax

Full Member
Nov 1, 2021
43
28
Hi there!

Next year, my wife and I (both PRs) will have fulfilled the residency / time-spent-in-Canada requirements towards eligbility to apply for Canadian citizenship.

There's one thing we're not clear about, though: do we have to have filed taxes even when we had no income, nor received any kind of benefits?

Context:
- we had become PRs in 2022
- while my wife had been working on her open work permit (before we had become PRs), she had filed personal income tax returns (2020-2021 and 2021-2022)
- she hasn't been working since becoming a PR
- I've never worked in Canada - I was on a study permit and my wife had been the principal PR applicant
- we're living off of the money from selling our house back before we had come to Canada (that money had already been taxed in our country of origin)
- we plan on working again in the future, but for now, we want to live off our money and take it slowly

We don't want to jeopardize our eligibility to apply for citizenship, hence my asking.

Thank you for your help.

- CC
 

rainydayincanada

Star Member
Apr 23, 2023
55
62
You should always file taxes independently of your income. You will need to for citizenship purposes. Note that any interest and various earnings will be taxable, potentially even abroad ( You need to disclose larger sums held outside Canada). Given you have no income you likely won't owe taxes, but this is not guaranteed.
 
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johnjkjk

Champion Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,059
426
You have to have filed for taxes- even with no income. You may be able to retrospectively do so: talk to an accountant.

However just a heads up: they use stable employment and income to help establish physical presence. It could cause some delay and lead to additional paperwork requests/interview. You can't change this situation, just be prepared for it.
 
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CorvusCorax

Full Member
Nov 1, 2021
43
28
You should always file taxes independently of your income. You will need to for citizenship purposes. Note that any interest and various earnings will be taxable, potentially even abroad ( You need to disclose larger sums held outside Canada). Given you have no income you likely won't owe taxes, but this is not guaranteed.
Got it and will do. Thank you for explaining.
 
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CorvusCorax

Full Member
Nov 1, 2021
43
28
You have to have filed for taxes- even with no income. You may be able to retrospectively do so: talk to an accountant.

However just a heads up: they use stable employment and income to help establish physical presence. It could cause some delay and lead to additional paperwork requests/interview. You can't change this situation, just be prepared for it.
Thank you.

I hadn't filed personal income tax myself, but I had been listed as my wife's spouse in her personal income tax. In the field where you have to indicate whether the spouse has been self-employed, what their net income had been etc. Apart from my name, these fields had been left blank by our accountant.

So am I correct in assuming that I absolutely have to have filed my taxes for at least three years out of five years before I can apply for citizenship?

Wouldn't it suffice for only my wife to have done so, since only she had been employed? If so, she'd only have to file for 2022 to fulfill the tax filing requirements.

Thanks for the heads-up regarding proof of physical presence in Canada. We hadn't left Canada even once since we have come here. There's many ways to prove that, e. g. by showing our weekly debit card transactions for groceries.
 

evabless

Member
May 31, 2018
15
2
Physical presence is ONLY determined by you being in the country for the 1095 days in the last 5 years, nothing to do with being employed or income. That's why they let u complete a Physical Presence Calculator to submit with the citizenship application which will be proven by your passport, but you have to file your taxes though, even a nil tax return. Im just waiting to take my citizenship test. If you want the correct info check out the official canada.ca website under citizenship
 
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evabless

Member
May 31, 2018
15
2
You have to have filed for taxes- even with no income. You may be able to retrospectively do so: talk to an accountant.

However just a heads up: they use stable employment and income to help establish physical presence. It could cause some delay and lead to additional paperwork requests/interview. You can't change this situation, just be prepared for it.
Physical presence has NOTHING to do with income or employment. You just have to be in the country which is proven from your passport. That's it.
 

rainydayincanada

Star Member
Apr 23, 2023
55
62
Each individual files taxes, no one can file them for you. It's not clear at this point if you filed with 0 income or not at all. You should try and understand what really happened with your returns.
 

johnjkjk

Champion Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,059
426
Physical presence has NOTHING to do with income or employment. You just have to be in the country which is proven from your passport. That's it.
Sorry, no. All kinds of information is used to verify physical presence. As per the ircc operational guide, self employment, especially as a "consultant" is a red flag for physical presence.

That's why some people get RQ. It's not just verification of entry and exit.
 
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johnjkjk

Champion Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,059
426
Thank you.

I hadn't filed personal income tax myself, but I had been listed as my wife's spouse in her personal income tax. In the field where you have to indicate whether the spouse has been self-employed, what their net income had been etc. Apart from my name, these fields had been left blank by our accountant.

So am I correct in assuming that I absolutely have to have filed my taxes for at least three years out of five years before I can apply for citizenship?

Wouldn't it suffice for only my wife to have done so, since only she had been employed? If so, she'd only have to file for 2022 to fulfill the tax filing requirements.

Thanks for the heads-up regarding proof of physical presence in Canada. We hadn't left Canada even once since we have come here. There's many ways to prove that, e. g. by showing our weekly debit card transactions for groceries.
You have to file for tax as an individual. Your accountant may be able to retrospectively do so for previous years. Talk to them urgently as the tax deadline is in 2 days.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
So am I correct in assuming that I absolutely have to have filed my taxes for at least three years out of five years before I can apply for citizenship?

Wouldn't it suffice for only my wife to have done so, since only she had been employed? If so, she'd only have to file for 2022 to fulfill the tax filing requirements.
To be eligible for a grant of citizenship the applicant must show compliance with CRA tax filing obligations for at least three of the five tax years prior to making the application. That does NOT necessarily require filing a tax return. An individual may be complying with the CRA filing rules a year they did not file so long as they had no obligation to file for that year. So, any year for which the individual was not required to file a return (per CRA rules) counts as a year of compliance, whether they actually filed a return or did not file a return.

It is possible some individuals may qualify for citizenship without ever having filed any tax returns.

The catch, as others have commented, is that for individuals living in Canada it is highly likely that they are either obligated to file a return, or SHOULD file a return even if the rules do not mandate it. So much so, even if the applicant meets the requirement to have complied with tax filing obligations, not filing a return might invite a total stranger bureaucrat (as in IRCC processing agents) to wrinkle their brow, scratch their head, and ask questions. This is particularly so for married individuals. It is, for example, almost always important for a spouse to also file a return if their partner needs to file a return. So, if one files a return and the other does not, there's a real risk that invites questions. Questions invite non-routine stuff.

But again, if under the CRA rules the individual is not required to file a tax return for a given tax year, and did not file a return for that year, that is a year that counts toward three to meet the 3/5 years of compliance required for a grant of citizenship.


Physical presence has NOTHING to do with income or employment. You just have to be in the country which is proven from your passport. That's it.
Response from @johnjkjk covers it, more diplomatically than I will.

Errrr . . . you say you have a citizenship application pending. Hopefully you did not overlook or otherwise fail to provide information for question 11 as to ALL employment you had, including beginning and end dates, the occupation, name of employer, and address information, for the full FIVE years prior to making the application. Spoiler alert: it is not a mere coincidence this information is requested for the same period of time during which physical presence in Canada is calculated.

This information is considered important enough that any gap in coverage, in the eligibility time period, will result in the application NOT being accepted but returned as incomplete.

And make no mistake, the applicant is obligated to disclose/report any employment during this time period, including employment outside Canada. For some applicants it may require reporting employment history they already reported in their application for PR.

Moreover, apart from the formal background clearances (mostly as to criminal and security issues), employment history is perhaps the most often investigated information applicants provide. There is a reason why LinkedIn information pops up in the official accounts of actual cases for which there are published Federal Court decisions.

Distinction: Requirements versus Key Factors

As @johnjkjk observed, employment history is a factor in IRCC's assessment of evidence verifying physical presence. In particular, for purposes of IRCC processing citizenship applications, an adult applicant's employment history is important. Very important.

Its importance is evidentiary. Place of employment (or location of other readily documented activity, like attendance in a university program) generally evidences physical location. No advanced degrees in quantum physics necessary to understand the correlation.

For grant citizenship there is no employment eligibility requirement. No minimum income requirement.

But location of readily verifiable activities, with employment looming large, among the largest, is a key factor in evaluating physical presence in Canada.
 

johnjkjk

Champion Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,059
426
To be eligible for a grant of citizenship the applicant must show compliance with CRA tax filing obligations for at least three of the five tax years prior to making the application. That does NOT necessarily require filing a tax return. An individual may be complying with the CRA filing rules a year they did not file so long as they had no obligation to file for that year. So, any year for which the individual was not required to file a return (per CRA rules) counts as a year of compliance, whether they actually filed a return or did not file a return.

It is possible some individuals may qualify for citizenship without ever having filed any tax returns.

The catch, as others have commented, is that for individuals living in Canada it is highly likely that they are either obligated to file a return, or SHOULD file a return even if the rules do not mandate it. So much so, even if the applicant meets the requirement to have complied with tax filing obligations, not filing a return might invite a total stranger bureaucrat (as in IRCC processing agents) to wrinkle their brow, scratch their head, and ask questions. This is particularly so for married individuals. It is, for example, almost always important for a spouse to also file a return if their partner needs to file a return. So, if one files a return and the other does not, there's a real risk that invites questions. Questions invite non-routine stuff.

But again, if under the CRA rules the individual is not required to file a tax return for a given tax year, and did not file a return for that year, that is a year that counts toward three to meet the 3/5 years of compliance required for a grant of citizenship.




Response from @johnjkjk covers it, more diplomatically than I will.

Errrr . . . you say you have a citizenship application pending. Hopefully you did not overlook or otherwise fail to provide information for question 11 as to ALL employment you had, including beginning and end dates, the occupation, name of employer, and address information, for the full FIVE years prior to making the application. Spoiler alert: it is not a mere coincidence this information is requested for the same period of time during which physical presence in Canada is calculated.

This information is considered important enough that any gap in coverage, in the eligibility time period, will result in the application NOT being accepted but returned as incomplete.

And make no mistake, the applicant is obligated to disclose/report any employment during this time period, including employment outside Canada. For some applicants it may require reporting employment history they already reported in their application for PR.

Moreover, apart from the formal background clearances (mostly as to criminal and security issues), employment history is perhaps the most often investigated information applicants provide. There is a reason why LinkedIn information pops up in the official accounts of actual cases for which there are published Federal Court decisions.

Distinction: Requirements versus Key Factors

As @johnjkjk observed, employment history is a factor in IRCC's assessment of evidence verifying physical presence. In particular, for purposes of IRCC processing citizenship applications, an adult applicant's employment history is important. Very important.

Its importance is evidentiary. Place of employment (or location of other readily documented activity, like attendance in a university program) generally evidences physical location. No advanced degrees in quantum physics necessary to understand the correlation.

For grant citizenship there is no employment eligibility requirement. No minimum income requirement.

But location of readily verifiable activities, with employment looming large, among the largest, is a key factor in evaluating physical presence in Canada.
Great advice as always!

Question: I have been self employed with a relatively low income. Does this mean RQ is guaranteed?

Also, I applied for urgent processing a few weeks ago and got the usual boilerplate confirmation (“forwarded to the responsible unit for review”) but Scarborough separately also noted that my "file is in queue for review by an officer". Is this standard text or does it mean secondary review?

I'm waiting on LPP months after a delayed background check. As per notes, my LPP are "not started" and my location is still "e-grant test ready" (rather than “review ready” which I expect for LPP in progress). No other relevant info from notes that could give an idea as to why my file is stuck.
 

Dutchgirl

Star Member
Oct 13, 2022
52
31
I'd say file the tax return. Not just for citizenship purposes, but also because if you don't file taxes, you miss out on benefits and other returns you'd likely qualify for as a low income couple.
H&R Block has software on their website that's free for simple returns, and inexpensive for returns that are a bit more complex. Deadline is April 30th, and I don't think it will be extended this year. You've got a couple of days to get it done. If you have an online CRA account and you filed last year's return, it's very doable. Good luck!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Great advice as always!

Question: I have been self employed with a relatively low income. Does this mean RQ is guaranteed?

Also, I applied for urgent processing a few weeks ago and got the usual boilerplate confirmation (“forwarded to the responsible unit for review”) but Scarborough separately also noted that my "file is in queue for review by an officer". Is this standard text or does it mean secondary review?

I'm waiting on LPP months after a delayed background check. As per notes, my LPP are "not started" and my location is still "e-grant test ready" (rather than “review ready” which I expect for LPP in progress). No other relevant info from notes that could give an idea as to why my file is stuck.
Small but important quibble: I make a concerted effort to avoid giving "advice." Allowing for a few exceptions in addition to some which should be obvious but sometimes needs to be restated out loud, like "be honest," and "if in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, follow the instructions." Rather, I try to focus on information that can help those trying to navigate their way, but unsure of this or that, to make decisions for themselves or at least better understand things.

Of course there are some significant gaps in what we know and understand. While much of this is due to inherent bureaucratic fog, some of it is deliberate, given the extent to which certain elements of the process are behind the confidential/secret curtain.

Leading to your queries.

Does self-employment trigger RQ?

Short and current answer: While reporting self-employment PROBABLY elevates the level of physical presence scrutiny, these days it alone is not likely to trigger RQ. So its impact almost certainly depends on a wide range of additional factors. Note, after all, not all self-employment is created equal. (Similarly for "unemployment," for example.) It readily appears that, currently, processing agents are assessing whether to question presence (that is, impose some degree of RQ-related non-routine requests) based on multiple factors considered in conjunction, comparing and contrasting facts and circumstances, with the applicant's travel history and margin of presence over the minimum perhaps looming large. The relatively low incidence of RQ these days suggests IRCC has raised the bar, in terms of what triggers RQ, considerably; for some time now it has appeared that the most at risk for RQ-related non-routine processing are applicants who, after applying, have relocated abroad or otherwise have extended absences.

Caveat: for more than a decade now the criteria employed in screening applicants has been confidential/secret. Over the years we have had access to some internal documents revealing clues about the criteria, and of course the underlying rationale for this or that criteria remains largely the same as when there was an appendix to an operational manual (CP - 5 Residence) that specified "reasons-to-question-residency," so those who pay attention and do the homework still have some insight into what risks RQ, even though we do not know the precise criteria for certain (at one point, for example, submitting recently issued identification with the application automatically triggered RQ; this is almost certainly not the case now and we don't know to what extent this is even a factor at all anymore).

Some history: There was a period of time when it was certain that self-employment was an automatic trigger for RQ. That was a decade and a year ago. 2012 to be precise, pursuant to revised procedures that were adopted in May that year. That was when we had access to a leaked copy of the File Requirements Checklist listing the so-called "triage" criteria, previously and otherwise known as "reasons-to-question-residency." And things like being unemployed, self-employed, or employed as a "consultant," were indeed automatic triggers for RQ. That had a big impact. For a time that was triggering RQ for more than one in four applicants, and the burden that imposed just about shut down processing applications. Routine processing timelines went from 8 to 12 months, to nearly two years, and non-routine processing timelines approached 3 to 4 years, sometimes more.

Many of us suspected that when Harper's government increased the minimum physical presence requirement to four years, with no credit for any time in Canada before becoming a PR, part of their motivation was to in effect get a year of almost no new applications, giving CIC (as it was then titled) an opportunity to catch-up on the massive backlog that had been created. Well, that and the Conservatives generally tend to implement more severe hurdles for immigrants than other political parties in Canada.

In the meantime, though, ATI requests (not to be confused with ATIP requests) were generating responses revealing internal communications indicating revisions to the triage criteria, recognizing that those adopted in May, 2012, were excessive. But since then it has been difficult to dig this information out from behind the confidential/secret curtain.

Is there a relationship between income and RQ-related processing?

This is a more difficult to answer question, in part because obviously it can be a significant factor, but in larger part Canada seems to do a good job NOT discriminating on the basis of income or wealth. That is, there is no indication that things go more smoothly for higher income applicants than low income applicants, at least not systematically. On the other hand, if and when IRCC is taking a closer look at an applicant's history, circumstances, and physical presence, there are many factors which can be related to the applicant's financial circumstances which can influence how things go. The paper and digital trail of activity left by those with higher paid employment and financial standing tends to be more substantial than, for example, students living on shoe-string budgets or individuals getting by with a patchwork of low-paid employment. Just the continuity and definiteness of place of residence, for example, can be a significant factor. BUT . . . this is when IRCC is taking a closer look at an applicant's history, circumstances, and physical presence, which seems it does NOT do for most qualified applicants. So for most applicants there should be minimal if any influence due to the applicant's financial standing.

Leading to what underlies many of the questions similar to those you ask . . . how does an applicant know (short of actually getting RQ-related non-routine requests) if and when IRCC is taking a closer look at their physical presence? This will not show up in what IRCC gives the applicant in response to ATIP requests. This is very much in that range of things which we do not know but which, at least often if not usually, is not too difficult to guess, roughly guess anyway. Applicants who are living abroad and who take the knowledge test online from abroad should not be surprised, for example, when their application does not proceed on the same timeline as most others.

Main thing re factors like income: Context. IRCC processing agents are not nearly so dense as oft times portrayed in this forum. They've seen a few immigrants applying for citizenship. They are familiar with patterns and trends. And just a few details about our lives, with travel, address, and employment history looming large, reveal a lot more about who we are, the lives we live, than many seem to recognize. Far from perfectly, but more than many apprehend, IRCC can spot incongruities. It should be no surprise that IRCC will sometimes spot and probe a PR maintaining a large family in an affluent neighbourhood, whose employment history raises an obvious question about how does he do it? Way too many potential scenarios indicating some incongruity in the applicant's whole picture to try enumerating examples.

The take-away should be comforting, reassuring: those who are qualified, honest, not gaming-the-system, have almost nothing to worry about. And even if they get some level of RQ-related questioning, it should be easily resolved, NO PROBLEM. The vast, vast majority of qualified applicants will encounter minimal non-routine processing.

Urgent Processing -- Well, that's a different beast:

A request for urgent processing could be why the file is in queue for review. Or . . . don't know.

There is not anywhere near enough credible reporting about who actually gets urgent processing, who does not, to discern reliable parameters regarding who gets it, when, or why. What we do know is that meeting the criteria for which IRCC might expedite an application nowhere near guarantees it will.

Meanwhile, I am no fan of micro-monitoring the progress of routinely processed applications, or even those subject to the less-disruptive types of non-routine processing. I'll leave discussion about potentially "being stuck" for another topic, another time.
 
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