Renewing PR Card - Absences and Address History details

[walterg74]

Hello,

I have posted this as well within another thread but kind of got lost, and focusing on this specific topic anyway, so I though a separate post was best.

We became PR in Aug. 2014. For different reasons we had only been in Canada for a total of about 60 days approx. (between April 2018, Dec. 2018, and Dec 2019 and Jan 2020, so all periods that are still within the 5 year window going back from today).

At the beginning of April 2021, we came to settle, and while we were warned we were not reported and have stayed since then.

As we stand, I met the 730 days for the RO on Feb 4th, and my Wife just yesterday on Feb 10th.

We now want to renew the PR card, as we need to travel and would like to have it (possibly) in time at least for the return, so with the aforementioned, I have 1086 days of absence and she has 1093.

What we have a few doubts about is the address history, and the absences listing.

For the address history:
- I am *NOT* listing any address which may be for either a vacation or work trip.
- I *AM* listing all Airbnb addresses where we resided when in Canada, as those would help/count my "in Canada" days for those periods in 2018/2019/2020)

Does this sound ok to you?

For the absences:
- I *AM* listing absences that included a departure from Canada and an arrival back to Canada
- I am *NOT* listing "trips" that originated while already having left Canada. For example, Left Canada Jan 1st, to my home country and returned to Canada June 1st. If I made a trip Say March 1 to March 15 to the US (departing from and returning to my home country), I did not list this.

My rational is that if I were to list such a trip, besides adding many more lines, and over complicating things, such a trip would not for example be found in CBSA records, as this list seems to assume that they are departing from/returning to Canada.

Is my logic correct, or do I need to somehow clarify all this?

Also, would you advise to wait more days, or if we effectively meet the 730+ days we are in compliance and they should process it as per the law/guidelines?

Thanks!

 

[bricksonly]

If I were you, I would wait until a solid 2-year continuous stay-in after April. But anyway, your tie with Canada right now is much more important than your short term staying several years ago.
For address, just give the real one (keep your record). For time out of Canada, you can give a major stay (your intention)...because others could be looked as living aboard but taking vacation or visit...just my feeling, not a professional advise

 

[armoured]

At the beginning of April 2021, we came to settle, and while we were warned we were not reported and have stayed since then.

As we stand, I met the 730 days for the RO on Feb 4th, and my Wife just yesterday on Feb 10th.

We now want to renew the PR card, as we need to travel and would like to have it (possibly) in time at least for the return, so with the aforementioned, I have 1086 days of absence and she has 1093.
...
Also, would you advise to wait more days, or if we effectively meet the 730+ days we are in compliance and they should process it as per the law/guidelines?

I don't see any big issue with your approach overall. Given that you were warned, and as a general approach, I'd still wait for each/both of you until you have a bit more of a buffer of days over the 730 days.

My general guess/guideline would be that 30 days more than the 730 required strikes a reasonable balance between having enough days that reduces risk of getting increased scrutiny - and that more than 30 days probably has not that much additional benefit.

I see from the dates roughly that this would take you to mid/end March anyway, and almost to the two-year anniversary of you staying in Canada continuously (and not leaving at all in the interim) - so your specific case may be one where just waiting and applying then (with well more than 30 days buffer) may be worth it.

Up to you.

 

[walterg74]

I don't see any big issue with your approach overall. Given that you were warned, and as a general approach, I'd still wait for each/both of you until you have a bit more of a buffer of days over the 730 days.

My general guess/guideline would be that 30 days more than the 730 required strikes a reasonable balance between having enough days that reduces risk of getting increased scrutiny - and that more than 30 days probably has not that much additional benefit.

I see from the dates roughly that this would take you to mid/end March anyway, and almost to the two-year anniversary of you staying in Canada continuously (and not leaving at all in the interim) - so your specific case may be one where just waiting and applying then (with well more than 30 days buffer) may be worth it.

Up to you.

Yes, what you say makes total sense.

The problem I have though, is that it's been incredibly difficult to keep my wife here for that long without visiting her family, and now we have to go. We actually have tickets for March 13.

Given the above, on one hand, I see how submitting later would add more days but at the same time, I am also thing about the fact that doing so, if they consult about entries/exits with CBSA then this upcoming one may show up as well then (and less likely to do so now, being 30 days away), and while it is 100% true that I am in Canada when submitting, I would not be while it's processing if I wait.

Still thinking out loud, even if they do scrutinize more due to the close number, they can scrutinize all they want but it won't change the fact that we do have 730+ days in Canada in the last 5 years anyway?

 

[armoured]

Yes, what you say makes total sense.

The problem I have though, is that it's been incredibly difficult to keep my wife here for that long without visiting her family, and now we have to go. We actually have tickets for March 13.

Given the above, on one hand, I see how submitting later would add more days but at the same time, I am also thing about the fact that doing so, if they consult about entries/exits with CBSA then this upcoming one may show up as well then (and less likely to do so now, being 30 days away), and while it is 100% true that I am in Canada when submitting, I would not be while it's processing if I wait.

Still thinking out loud, even if they do scrutinize more due to the close number, they can scrutinize all they want but it won't change the fact that we do have 730+ days in Canada in the last 5 years anyway?

Since you've already decided, don't know that it makes that much difference. How long will you be away? Be sure to maintain your number of days above 730, noting that earliest days will drop off.

Likely PR card won't be ready before you leave, and you should apply for prtd as soon as you arrive. Unless you can travel through USA.

In the end, yes, the PR card app should still be approved. But it could take longer , even much longer, and be a more of a pain or require extra documentation. And it leaves little room for contingencies. Inconveniences can eventually turn into real problems.

That said it could all go very easily and not he an issue. I've described what i think would be closer to ideal, but ideal is not always possible. It's your decision in the end.

 

[walterg74]

Since you've already decided, don't know that it makes that much difference. How long will you be away? Be sure to maintain your number of days above 730, noting that earliest days will drop off.

We will be away for a little over a month, returning on April 22. this basically means that as you said, my earliest days will drop off since they were from beginning of April 2018 (Apr. 5-16), however since that was only 12 days and at the same time since I'm leaving on March 13 I will still accumulate 28 more days from today till then, when we return we would actually have 16 *more* days than what we have today for a total of 756 days

Likely PR card won't be ready before you leave, and you should apply for prtd as soon as you arrive. Unless you can travel through USA.

I have 2 scenarios in mind:

- Scenario A: PR card is ready and at my mailbox with enough time before we have to come back, in which case I will UPS it overnight (we have more or less 60 days from today, so being the average was last at 67, I'm hopeful we might get lucky...)

- Senario B: PR card is not ready. We would be travelling through USA anyway (and actually our tickets are to a US border city, and we will cross by car unless the PR card is ready AND it's not too costly to change the last leg of the flight)

In any case, and preparing for B, I also plan to print out and take with me any supporting documents that would help to easily show/prove my residency (Rental agreement, pay stubs, bank statements, etc. from Apr. 2021 to now, as well as air tickets, airbnb reservations, etc. from 2018/2019/2020).

In the end, yes, the PR card app should still be approved. But it could take longer , even much longer, and be a more of a pain or require extra documentation. And it leaves little room for contingencies. Inconveniences can eventually turn into real problems.

That said it could all go very easily and not he an issue. I've described what i think would be closer to ideal, but ideal is not always possible. It's your decision in the end.

Right. I understand that, and I do realize what the easier way would be. Just that sometimes you gotta do stuff that is not the easiest even if you'd like to do otherwise...

In the end I guess I do feel some calm that ultimately we do meet the RO from a few days back untill we return, etc., and so while there is that chance that they might make it a little more complicated, we should (in theory) not have a problem in getting the new card in the end I guess?

 

[armoured]

- Senario B: PR card is not ready. We would be travelling through USA anyway (and actually our tickets are to a US border city, and we will cross by car unless the PR card is ready AND it's not too costly to change the last leg of the flight)
...
In the end I guess I do feel some calm that ultimately we do meet the RO from a few days back untill we return, etc., and so while there is that chance that they might make it a little more complicated, we should (in theory) not have a problem in getting the new card in the end I guess?

Since you are flying to a US border city and can get out and cross the land border if it comes to it, that basically removes the worst-case scenario of somehow getting stranded abroad due to lack of a PR card/PRTD and all that might hypothetically go wrong after that. (Well I'm sure there are other, even worster scenarios but limiting to the issue at hand)

And I don't see any particular reason to worry if you return before you get out of compliance, if the card takes a bit longer, it takes a bit longer. Hoepfully it'll come without undue delay.

 

[walterg74]

Since you are flying to a US border city and can get out and cross the land border if it comes to it, that basically removes the worst-case scenario of somehow getting stranded abroad due to lack of a PR card/PRTD and all that might hypothetically go wrong after that. (Well I'm sure there are other, even worster scenarios but limiting to the issue at hand)

And I don't see any particular reason to worry if you return before you get out of compliance, if the card takes a bit longer, it takes a bit longer. Hoepfully it'll come without undue delay.

Thanks! Guess we'll see in April then

 

[bricksonly]

Don't know your situation, but if you will be back in April, why not submit your application after? You don't need PR card for daily life, or if you want to go US you can choose land entry. PR card is just for commercial entry into Canada.

 

[walterg74]

Don't know your situation, but if you will be back in April, why not submit your application after? You don't need PR card for daily life, or if you want to go US you can choose land entry. PR card is just for commercial entry into Canada.

That is true, however not only do they tell you constantly if you will travel make sure you have a valid PR card, renew on time, etc., so in theory you should have it travelling, but as well when I have to cross the border if asked, I can also say I did submit for renewal (and have proof), but they did not process it fast enough.

Also, not requiring a PR card for day to day is not 100% true... Or rather, it is true *but*, this has become the de-facto standard for ID proof, and is the reason why my wife cannot get a health card or driver's license yet, as she has no primary accepted ID to show... (I lucked out because I was smart enough to go in for y provincial services/health card on one of the trips, in time before my PR card expired, and then I was able to use my provincial services/health card as primary ID when getting my driver's license).

So submitting now even if it doesn't make it in time before or during the trip should be around done at least when we get back and enable to apply for the health card and driver's license when we get back.

 

[Samrao100]

That is true, however not only do they tell you constantly if you will travel make sure you have a valid PR card, renew on time, etc., so in theory you should have it travelling, but as well when I have to cross the border if asked, I can also say I did submit for renewal (and have proof), but they did not process it fast enough.

Also, not requiring a PR card for day to day is not 100% true... Or rather, it is true *but*, this has become the de-facto standard for ID proof, and is the reason why my wife cannot get a health card or driver's license yet, as she has no primary accepted ID to show... (I lucked out because I was smart enough to go in for y provincial services/health card on one of the trips, in time before my PR card expired, and then I was able to use my provincial services/health card as primary ID when getting my driver's license).

So submitting now even if it doesn't make it in time before or during the trip should be around done at least when we get back and enable to apply for the health card and driver's license when we get back.

So mine is somewhat a Similar situation… PR Card expired , RO met only with a buffer of 2 days (732 or 1093 days outside Canada last 5 years), PR Card Renewal applied Jan 15, on the day I left Canada, PRTD applied Jan 24 from India, not losing any of the 732 days until March 26 ‘23. Similar reason, didn’t want to leave my 92 year old mom alone w attendant in India any longer, having not stayed w her nearly all of 2022. So I took the risk, am ready for the additional scrutiny & possible delay, but don’t have the luxury of entering via the US land border ( it’s a 2 year wait for a US visa applied from India) . Have posted my case details in this forum on Jan 31.

Since I was quite ready for this, I’ve copies of my boarding passes & exit entry stamps in my passport as well as pay stubs, tax returns for 2021 & 22 & Covid vaccination certificates to be able to calculate the Exact number of my days away from & back in Canada. To the extent that, if the flight out of YVR to Del was scheduled to take off at 12.15am Pacific Time on Jun 12, I can count Jun 12 as 1 day of Residence, & the Boarding Pass indicates that. And to answer your question, the 2 days I left India July 7 ‘21 , passed through Mexico City on way to Toronto, have indicated that in the Reasons section of Travel History, but not included that as a separate trip outside Canada.

So, will Post in this forum what the outcome of my applications are, I’ve submitted the necessary documents (both online as well as mailing to the Consulate General) when my email PRTD application was responded to , 2 days later , Jan 26, with a request for Proof of Residency to be submitted. Haven’t heard anything back since

 

[walterg74]

So mine is somewhat a Similar situation… PR Card expired , RO met only with a buffer of 2 days (732 or 1093 days outside Canada last 5 years), PR Card Renewal applied Jan 15, on the day I left Canada, PRTD applied Jan 24 from India, not losing any of the 732 days until March 26 ‘23. Similar reason, didn’t want to leave my 92 year old mom alone w attendant in India any longer, having not stayed w her nearly all of 2022. So I took the risk, am ready for the additional scrutiny & possible delay, but don’t have the luxury of entering via the US land border ( it’s a 2 year wait for a US visa applied from India) . Have posted my case details in this forum on Jan 31.

Since I was quite ready for this, I’ve copies of my boarding passes & exit entry stamps in my passport as well as pay stubs, tax returns for 2021 & 22 & Covid vaccination certificates to be able to calculate the Exact number of my days away from & back in Canada. To the extent that, if the flight out of YVR to Del was scheduled to take off at 12.15am Pacific Time on Jun 12, I can count Jun 12 as 1 day of Residence, & the Boarding Pass indicates that. And to answer your question, the 2 days I left India July 7 ‘21 , passed through Mexico City on way to Toronto, have indicated that in the Reasons section of Travel History, but not included that as a separate trip outside Canada.

So, will Post in this forum what the outcome of my applications are, I’ve submitted the necessary documents (both online as well as mailing to the Consulate General) when my email PRTD application was responded to , 2 days later , Jan 26, with a request for Proof of Residency to be submitted. Haven’t heard anything back since

Sorry, but I don't understand one thing. If you say you already left, and you won't lose any days until March 26 2023, but planning to come back in June. Wouldn't you be in a situation where you DON'T meet the RO when you come back..?

 

[Samrao100]

Sorry, but I don't understand one thing. If you say you already left, and you won't lose any days until March 26 2023, but planning to come back in June. Wouldn't you be in a situation where you DON'T meet the RO when you come back..?

Yes, if I get the PRTD between now & end March '23 & travel back to Canada, I'll meet the RO if questioned at the POE. If I come back in June, I Wont meet the RO & will be short by about 2 weeks .

 

[walterg74]

I’ve submitted the necessary documents (both online as well as mailing to the Consulate General) when my email PRTD application was responded to , 2 days later , Jan 26, with a request for Proof of Residency to be submitted. Haven’t heard anything back since

Not sure I understand this part.

- You submitted online and via mail? I don't think you're supposed to send twice
- Why did they ask for proof of residency to be submitted? Did you not include that in your initial application? (As per the guide and checklist, you are supposed to include that when requesting a PRTD).

 

[Samrao100]

Not sure I understand this part.

- You submitted online and via mail? I don't think you're supposed to send twice
- Why did they ask for proof of residency to be submitted? Did you not include that in your initial application? (As per the guide and checklist, you are supposed to include that when requesting a PRTD).

Yes, these days bcos of the huge backlog etc., things are not that straightforward. So I applied Online for PRTD bcos that's the only option available for Indian Permanent residents. Wasnt too familiar with scanning & attaching all the proofs (passport pages, Boarding passes, pay stubs) in the various categories of the Drop Down Menu ( out of say 19 categories, only 3 or 4 apply to me) ... so long story ... only 2 passport pages & 1 page of Boarding pass scans ... which is insufficient Proof of RO... each of those is more than 20 scans each.

So got the email reply from IRCC 2 days later requesting the documents to be Mailed (or emailed? Not clear) to the concerned Embassy, High Commission or Consulate dealing with my case (not very clear again as to WHERE) . SO tried to call 3 different Consulates in India, finally got to talk to a live agent at New Delhi... who suggested that I email reply back to the original IRCC email & attach all documents (its possible sending over 1 or few large PDFs with various pages, not one) AND also Mail the documents by courier to the Bengaluru Canadian Consulate. So that someone would eventually read it & make sure to include the Application # for reference.

Which is what I did, a week ago... now waiting for the next step