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How many days past 1095 days?

krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
Hi,

I moved to Canada and have not travelled outside the country until now. I would be eligible to apply for citizenship next month, as I would have been in Canada for 1095 days.

How many more days is it better for me to wait before I submit my citizenship application? People are suggesting that I should wait more days past the 1095th day just to be safe.
 

forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
6,906
2,808
Hi,

I moved to Canada and have not travelled outside the country until now. I would be eligible to apply for citizenship next month, as I would have been in Canada for 1095 days.

How many more days is it better for me to wait before I submit my citizenship application? People are suggesting that I should wait more days past the 1095th day just to be safe.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility.html#time
IRCC also suggest the same. But if you are sure with your calculation without any travel, 1095 is also perfect days to go with. If you want to have some buffer just in case apply after a week. It's a long process so a week will not make a huge difference in the overall processing cycle.
 
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krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility.html#time
IRCC also suggest the same. But if you are sure with your calculation without any travel, 1095 is also perfect days to go with. If you want to have some buffer just in case apply after a week. It's a long process so a week will not make a huge difference in the overall processing cycle.
I requested ATIP. The Traveller History Report that they sent has the accurate entry dates which are only the soft landing date and the date I moved to Canada. Hence I am thinking I will submit on the 1097th day.
 

krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
If you are so confident, go ahead with 1097 days.
My calculation is matching what they have on their end. Does IRCC refer to the information on this Traveller History Report (ATIP) or would they use some other way to calculate our presence in Canada?
 

SecularFirst

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2015
435
57
My calculation is matching what they have on their end. Does IRCC refer to the information on this Traveller History Report (ATIP) or would they use some other way to calculate our presence in Canada?
How did you request the travel history report? I am also planning to apply citizenship at around 1098-1100th day this summer. I havent travelled out since my entry to Canada but will travel out for 15 days before application. Will ensure to account for those as well before submission.
What did you ask specifically to get accurate travel history report?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
I moved to Canada and have not travelled outside the country until now. I would be eligible to apply for citizenship next month, as I would have been in Canada for 1095 days.

How many more days is it better for me to wait before I submit my citizenship application? People are suggesting that I should wait more days past the 1095th day just to be safe.
Safe from what?

As @forw.jane noted, 1095 days of actual presence as a PR, in the eligibility period, meets the presence requirement.

The burden of proving ACTUAL presence is on the applicant. In most cases, in most circumstances, this is fairly easy. Travel, address, and work history all coalesce to paint a clear picture of a PR who has been physically residing in Canada for at least three years in the preceding five.

For some reason, many seem to emphasize the travel history part of this more than the address and activity/work history. All the travel history does is sketch the outline. Address and activity history fill in the picture. If all this adds up, indicates no reason to question the applicant's calculation of physical presence, and that calculation is at least 1095 days physical presence, that meets the requirement.

How much of a buffer to have before applying is a very personal decision. What is prudent will vary considerably depending on the particular circumstances in the individual case. For all but a few prospective applicants waiting to have a full month buffer is easy, really easy, and should be plenty. More than enough for many, sure, but for most it is worth it if only for feeling more comfortable and confident, over the course of the many coming months, that there is not likely to be any questions or non-routine processing related to verification of physical presence.

For me, I waited well OVER an EXTRA YEAR to apply. Few will need to follow that example. Obviously I had reasons, most related to being self-employed and exporting what I do abroad.

For others it may be periods of time during which their address was transient, or they were unemployed, that suggest the prudence of waiting a little or, for some (like me) a lot longer to apply.

Remember: "it's not what you know, it's what you can prove" (to steal a line from a Denzel Washington cop movie). IRCC does not have a crystal ball. And IRCC does not assume that CBSA captures every exit and entry by PRs.

If you think of this like making a case to a jury, yeah, if at the end of reviewing ALL the EVIDENCE (not just travel history), the jury finds that the applicant was actually physically present at least 1095 days, that element, the physical presence requirement, is met. And if all the other requirements are met, the verdict will be a grant of citizenship.

For a person who came to Canada and stayed three years without leaving, the travel history is simple: that is direct evidence establishing one (and just one) day of actual physical presence. In the proof of presence part of making the case for citizenship, that means the applicant needs proof of 1094 more days. If what IRCC can discern from the applicant's address and work history and other sources supports a conclusion the applicant remained in Canada after that one entry, that should be good enough.
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
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Ottawa
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AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Hi,

I moved to Canada and have not travelled outside the country until now. I would be eligible to apply for citizenship next month, as I would have been in Canada for 1095 days.

How many more days is it better for me to wait before I submit my citizenship application? People are suggesting that I should wait more days past the 1095th day just to be safe.
Mine is 1100 days but I got RQ-lite.
 

krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
How did you request the travel history report? I am also planning to apply citizenship at around 1098-1100th day this summer. I havent travelled out since my entry to Canada but will travel out for 15 days before application. Will ensure to account for those as well before submission.
What did you ask specifically to get accurate travel history report?
https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/privacyTerms.do

I requested for entry and exit information from a random date in 2015 until the date I submitted the request. They only provided the entry information in the report.
 

krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
Safe from what?

As @forw.jane noted, 1095 days of actual presence as a PR, in the eligibility period, meets the presence requirement.

The burden of proving ACTUAL presence is on the applicant. In most cases, in most circumstances, this is fairly easy. Travel, address, and work history all coalesce to paint a clear picture of a PR who has been physically residing in Canada for at least three years in the preceding five.

For some reason, many seem to emphasize the travel history part of this more than the address and activity/work history. All the travel history does is sketch the outline. Address and activity history fill in the picture. If all this adds up, indicates no reason to question the applicant's calculation of physical presence, and that calculation is at least 1095 days physical presence, that meets the requirement.

How much of a buffer to have before applying is a very personal decision. What is prudent will vary considerably depending on the particular circumstances in the individual case. For all but a few prospective applicants waiting to have a full month buffer is easy, really easy, and should be plenty. More than enough for many, sure, but for most it is worth it if only for feeling more comfortable and confident, over the course of the many coming months, that there is not likely to be any questions or non-routine processing related to verification of physical presence.

For me, I waited well OVER an EXTRA YEAR to apply. Few will need to follow that example. Obviously I had reasons, most related to being self-employed and exporting what I do abroad.

For others it may be periods of time during which their address was transient, or they were unemployed, that suggest the prudence of waiting a little or, for some (like me) a lot longer to apply.

Remember: "it's not what you know, it's what you can prove" (to steal a line from a Denzel Washington cop movie). IRCC does not have a crystal ball. And IRCC does not assume that CBSA captures every exit and entry by PRs.

If you think of this like making a case to a jury, yeah, if at the end of reviewing ALL the EVIDENCE (not just travel history), the jury finds that the applicant was actually physically present at least 1095 days, that element, the physical presence requirement, is met. And if all the other requirements are met, the verdict will be a grant of citizenship.

For a person who came to Canada and stayed three years without leaving, the travel history is simple: that is direct evidence establishing one (and just one) day of actual physical presence. In the proof of presence part of making the case for citizenship, that means the applicant needs proof of 1094 more days. If what IRCC can discern from the applicant's address and work history and other sources supports a conclusion the applicant remained in Canada after that one entry, that should be good enough.
When we apply we only authorize IRCC to get our information from CBSA and CRA. From there IRCC gets our entry and exit and work history.

We don't provide copies of leases and utility bills. How is IRCC able to verify address history?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
When we apply we only authorize IRCC to get our information from CBSA and CRA. From there IRCC gets our entry and exit and work history.

We don't provide copies of leases and utility bills. How is IRCC able to verify address history?
Just like the applicant's travel history, IRCC relies on the applicant to completely and accurately provide this information.

Except in some circumstances, which tend to be obvious (like mine, no readily verifiable employer; like applicants with extensive transient histories; among others), the vast majority of qualified applicants who truthfully and completely provided the information requested in the application have no reason to apprehend IRCC will engage in any non-routine probing of them. Some may be questioned a little more thoroughly in a PI (Program Integrity) interview, and little more.

The extent to which IRCC probes other information to verify what the applicant provides depends, largely, on the extent to which something indicates the applicant's information is not complete or in some way not accurate. Of course applicant credibility looms front and center in this approach, and thus internal consistency in the information the applicant provides combined with consistency with other information in the applicant's immigration history helps considerably in making such assessments. Mostly IRCC, at least initially, is just screening the applicant's information looking for any incongruities, inconsistencies, apparent inaccuracies, or circumstances listed in the FRC (File Requirements Checklist) as "triage criteria," known in previous renditions of operational guidelines as "reasons to question residency." The latter was available to the public. As of 2012, under the Harper government, this information was made confidential, when it was adopted in the FRC format, and has not been available to the public since then (or even to individuals or their lawyers, not even the Federal Court justices who preside over citizenship cases litigated in appeals). While the only version (a widely shared, leaked version) of the FRC that has been shared in the forums dates back to 2012, most of the criteria itself is more or less easily inferred. So even though the precise criteria, including mostly how the criteria is weighed, has undoubtedly changed some since, the core elements most likely continue. For example, yeah, if IRCC sees information in CBSA travel history that conflicts with the applicant's information, that's a trigger for RQ-related non-routine processing, elevated scrutiny, and depending on the nature and scope of the conflict in information, potentially suspicion or even outright doubt about the applicant's credibility. Otherwise, factors like lengthy periods of unemployment or self-employment, recently issued government identification, incongruities like an applicant whose immediate family lives abroad, probably do not, standing alone, trigger either RQ-related non-routine processing or an investigation into the applicant's physical presence, but are considered in conjunction with other information to determine if there should be a more probing inquiry into the applicant's information, especially as to physical presence.

It warrants noting that even though IRCC could rely more on travel history information available from records captured by CBSA (and many forum participants vehemently advocate it should), so far it appears IRCC primarily uses access to CBSA travel history to see if it indicates any conflicts, inconsistencies, or missing information in what the applicant has submitted. So for the applicant who never left Canada after arriving, all the travel history shows is that it is consistent with the what the applicant has reported, thus supporting the conclusion, yep, it is for sure the applicant was in Canada that day. One day down, 1094 more to go.

Again, the good news is that absent something triggering a cause to question the applicant's information, for the qualified applicant who has completely and accurately given the information requested, the odds are very high there will be no residency investigation and no RQ-related non-routine processing.

In-between, of course IRCC can, and is known to, access a wide range of information sources to cross-check some of the applicant's information. Especially open sources. LinkedIn is one of the sources commonly seen in Federal Court cases (like the doctor whose work history did not include any reported work in the U.S., but whose LinkedIn information reported a period of time employed in the states; yeah, he got investigated and it did not go well). So, obviously, for someone whose work history was mostly working for the RBC Bank, the official assessing the applicant's information can easily look up and cross check the address of the particular location the applicant reports working at. It's not all that complex actually. And yeah, IRCC can use google maps in satellite mode to look at the actual dwelling houses the applicant reported as the addresses where they lived. If its an empty lot or an industrial building, bells ring (not literally of course). Or if it's a big luxury house in a very exclusive neighbourhood, and the applicant's work history is sketchy, populated by sporadic low-paying jobs, might be nothing to cause much concern but, perhaps, worth taking a little more in-depth look. It ain't rocket science. It's more like simple math, looking for things that do not quite add up.

So, at the risk of beating the proverbial dead horse (ouch, what an ugly way to frame it eh), again, the good news is that absent something triggering a cause to question the applicant's information, for the qualified applicant who has completely and accurately given the information requested, the odds are very high there will be no residency investigation and no RQ-related non-routine processing.

So, the more stable and definite the applicant's travel, work, and address history, the more comfortable and confident the applicant can be applying with a smaller buffer. For those with significant transient periods, better to buffer-up accordingly.
 

krishere1982

Hero Member
Mar 2, 2016
723
198
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
Just like the applicant's travel history, IRCC relies on the applicant to completely and accurately provide this information.

Except in some circumstances, which tend to be obvious (like mine, no readily verifiable employer; like applicants with extensive transient histories; among others), the vast majority of qualified applicants who truthfully and completely provided the information requested in the application have no reason to apprehend IRCC will engage in any non-routine probing of them. Some may be questioned a little more thoroughly in a PI (Program Integrity) interview, and little more.

The extent to which IRCC probes other information to verify what the applicant provides depends, largely, on the extent to which something indicates the applicant's information is not complete or in some way not accurate. Of course applicant credibility looms front and center in this approach, and thus internal consistency in the information the applicant provides combined with consistency with other information in the applicant's immigration history helps considerably in making such assessments. Mostly IRCC, at least initially, is just screening the applicant's information looking for any incongruities, inconsistencies, apparent inaccuracies, or circumstances listed in the FRC (File Requirements Checklist) as "triage criteria," known in previous renditions of operational guidelines as "reasons to question residency." The latter was available to the public. As of 2012, under the Harper government, this information was made confidential, when it was adopted in the FRC format, and has not been available to the public since then (or even to individuals or their lawyers, not even the Federal Court justices who preside over citizenship cases litigated in appeals). While the only version (a widely shared, leaked version) of the FRC that has been shared in the forums dates back to 2012, most of the criteria itself is more or less easily inferred. So even though the precise criteria, including mostly how the criteria is weighed, has undoubtedly changed some since, the core elements most likely continue. For example, yeah, if IRCC sees information in CBSA travel history that conflicts with the applicant's information, that's a trigger for RQ-related non-routine processing, elevated scrutiny, and depending on the nature and scope of the conflict in information, potentially suspicion or even outright doubt about the applicant's credibility. Otherwise, factors like lengthy periods of unemployment or self-employment, recently issued government identification, incongruities like an applicant whose immediate family lives abroad, probably do not, standing alone, trigger either RQ-related non-routine processing or an investigation into the applicant's physical presence, but are considered in conjunction with other information to determine if there should be a more probing inquiry into the applicant's information, especially as to physical presence.

It warrants noting that even though IRCC could rely more on travel history information available from records captured by CBSA (and many forum participants vehemently advocate it should), so far it appears IRCC primarily uses access to CBSA travel history to see if it indicates any conflicts, inconsistencies, or missing information in what the applicant has submitted. So for the applicant who never left Canada after arriving, all the travel history shows is that it is consistent with the what the applicant has reported, thus supporting the conclusion, yep, it is for sure the applicant was in Canada that day. One day down, 1094 more to go.

Again, the good news is that absent something triggering a cause to question the applicant's information, for the qualified applicant who has completely and accurately given the information requested, the odds are very high there will be no residency investigation and no RQ-related non-routine processing.

In-between, of course IRCC can, and is known to, access a wide range of information sources to cross-check some of the applicant's information. Especially open sources. LinkedIn is one of the sources commonly seen in Federal Court cases (like the doctor whose work history did not include any reported work in the U.S., but whose LinkedIn information reported a period of time employed in the states; yeah, he got investigated and it did not go well). So, obviously, for someone whose work history was mostly working for the RBC Bank, the official assessing the applicant's information can easily look up and cross check the address of the particular location the applicant reports working at. It's not all that complex actually. And yeah, IRCC can use google maps in satellite mode to look at the actual dwelling houses the applicant reported as the addresses where they lived. If its an empty lot or an industrial building, bells ring (not literally of course). Or if it's a big luxury house in a very exclusive neighbourhood, and the applicant's work history is sketchy, populated by sporadic low-paying jobs, might be nothing to cause much concern but, perhaps, worth taking a little more in-depth look. It ain't rocket science. It's more like simple math, looking for things that do not quite add up.

So, at the risk of beating the proverbial dead horse (ouch, what an ugly way to frame it eh), again, the good news is that absent something triggering a cause to question the applicant's information, for the qualified applicant who has completely and accurately given the information requested, the odds are very high there will be no residency investigation and no RQ-related non-routine processing.

So, the more stable and definite the applicant's travel, work, and address history, the more comfortable and confident the applicant can be applying with a smaller buffer. For those with significant transient periods, better to buffer-up accordingly.
When I moved to Canada, I had to stay in a hotel for the mandatory quarantine. After that I rented a room in a house for less than 2 months. I moved to an apartment after that. All this time I was unemployed and also was unemployed beyond that for a few more months too.

Would all this period be considered transient?