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Traveling With Canadian Spouse / PR obligations

samandal

Newbie
Jan 17, 2023
2
0
Dear all

My wife is Canadian, i am a PR holder and i spent around 300 days in Canada. We both got a job offer in France and we will move soon, is it true that if i am traveling with a Canadian spouse each day outside Canada is considered to be a day physically present in Canada. and by this can i apply for citizenship despite that i am staying in france when i finish my 730 days?

Thanks
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,938
22,177
Toronto
Category........
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Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
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28-06-2010
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05-10-2010
Dear all

My wife is Canadian, i am a PR holder and i spent around 300 days in Canada. We both got a job offer in France and we will move soon, is it true that if i am traveling with a Canadian spouse each day outside Canada is considered to be a day physically present in Canada. and by this can i apply for citizenship despite that i am staying in france when i finish my 730 days?

Thanks
No, this isn't correct. You cannot count days outside of Canada towards citizenship. You must be living in Canada to count days towards citizenship.

If you are outside of Canada with your Canadian citizen spouse, you can count these days towards the residency obligation required to keep your PR status (this is of course different than citizenship). Note that IRCC will sometimes apply the "who followed whom" rule and look for evidence that you are outside of Canada primarily due to your spouse's employment (rather than yours). However if both of you got job offers outside of Canada, you should be fine.

So to summarize, you can count this time towards your PR residency obligation. You cannot count this time towards citizenship. Also note that the residency obligation for citizenship is 1095 days (not 730).
 
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montrealworker

Star Member
Sep 25, 2022
105
5
if your wife works for Canadian embassy or organization overseas.. this could count toward citizenship... check with a lawyer here we are all guessing
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
if your wife works for Canadian embassy or organization overseas.. this could count toward citizenship... check with a lawyer here we are all guessing
The chances that the spouse got a job with Global Affairs in France is probably zero
Yeah, and at the least there is zero hint that is anywhere near relevant to the OP's query. @scylla's response covered the query, accurately, and is NOT a guess, not close.

Some Editorial Observations:

Many of us make a concerted effort to not only avoid guessing, but to focus on providing reliable information, minimizing opinion. Sure, we make mistakes (I make too many), get things wrong, but we try, and hopefully mostly succeed, in helping each other identify our errors and get things right.

And the post by @scylla is a prime example: While paraphrasing, @scylla nonetheless accurately stated the sum and substance of Section 28(2)(a)(ii) IRPA, which allows a credit toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation if a PR is accompanying a spouse who is a Canadian citizen, and otherwise correctly noted that there is no comparable provision in Section 5 of the Citizenship Act, no provision allowing a PR credit toward the presence requirement for days outside Canada accompanying a spouse based on the spouse's status as a Canadian (there are exceptions based on very narrowly prescribed government/public service related employment, for which there is zero indication this is relevant to the OP's query).

These rules, and a lot of reliable information about how they apply, are readily accessible in reliable sources, official and authoritative sources, even if many immigrants are unsure about them or do not know where to find that information, so they pose questions here which, like that posed by the OP, can be answered by forum regulars. NO GUESSING required. And, except to illustrate context and the parameters between what is known and what is not known, and in that event clearly denoted as guessing, generally it is preferable to NOT be guessing. Requests for information should be answered with information, preferably information based on reliable sources or at least based on sound reasoning derived from reliable information.

Requests for advice in this forum pose a different more problematic issue. Generally this is NOT an appropriate venue for obtaining or giving advice. That is for lawyers or trusted confidants.

To a large extent providing relevant information can help those asking for advice (often the information will enable PRs to answer their question for themselves). But beyond the scope of advice that is based on solid, fundamental principles (like advice to be honest and follow the instructions) or is otherwise rooted in solidly established norms or conventional wisdom (like do not make an application for a new PR card unless the PR is in compliance with the RO; wait to apply for citizenship with a good buffer over the minimum presence requirement; if in breach, return to Canada as soon as reasonably possible), proffers of advice in this forum should be approached with a great deal of caution if not overt skepticism.


We both got a job offer in France and we will move soon, is it true that if i am traveling with a Canadian spouse each day outside Canada is considered to be a day physically present in Canada. and by this can i apply for citizenship despite that i am staying in france when i finish my 730 days?
Just want to clarify and reassure that @scylla accurately and adequately answered the query you posed. Credit toward RO compliance for time accompanying citizen spouse abroad. No credit toward meeting citizenship physical presence requirement.

It is true that there are provisions in the Citizenship Act, in subsections of Section 5, which allow credit toward the citizenship presence requirement in particular scenarios involving either the PR or the PR's spouse being employed outside Canada in certain government/public service related capacities. There does not appear to be any indication at all these might apply in your situation.

For anyone interested in those exceptions, it warrants noting that the exceptions set out in subsections 5(1.01), 5(1.02), and 5(1.03), which for example MIGHT cover employment abroad at a Canadian embassy, EXCLUDE locally engaged jobs (thus, for example, obtaining a job IN France working for the Canadian embassy there, would not qualify). This is not nearly so complicated as some might try to make it. Unless the Embassy employee was already working for the Canadian government IN Canada and has been assigned to work at an Embassy abroad, safe to conclude it does NOT fit into the exception UNLESS the matter has been reviewed and evaluated by a reliable, experienced Canadian lawyer who concludes otherwise (and who should be able to clearly explain why and how).

Re PRs Obtaining Lawyer's Services Generally:

There are many situations in which it would be prudent to at least consult with a lawyer.

HOWEVER, most of the basic rules are relatively straight-forward, documented by multiple official sources (such as the applicable statutes and regulations) and authoritative sources (like IRCC online information, which is NOT official but can be largely relied on as unofficial authority), and no professional advice is needed in regards to their application. Most of the questions PRs will have regarding RO compliance and qualification for citizenship, in particular, are readily answered at the IRCC website. For those unfamiliar or uncomfortable with navigating the IRCC information, or otherwise unsure, there are many forum participants who regularly respond to questions here with answers based on reliable sources, NOT guessing. We will typically acknowledge what we don't know and readily suggest obtaining professional assistance in circumstances where that might be a good idea.