Nice!!! Love to see a happy ending, glad you made the hard choice of staying here for 2 years without your family.
PR card expiring soon and we want to move to canada
- Thread starter DVR
- Start date
Hi, I am in similar situation now where PR card is ending in August2023. All my family members (wife, and 2 kids) going to expire at same time and we are outside of canada and unable to travel due to pandamic and personal reasons.
I am planning to do PR renewal on H&C grounds.
Can you please share the links and what documents need to be submitted?
Is it OK to submit while I am being in India?
Really - need a immigration lawyer for this? or Can I submit on my own?
Your response will help me.
Thanks in Advance.
Regards,
Raj.
I am planning to do PR renewal on H&C grounds.
Can you please share the links and what documents need to be submitted?
Is it OK to submit while I am being in India?
Really - need a immigration lawyer for this? or Can I submit on my own?
Your response will help me.
Thanks in Advance.
Regards,
Raj.
Hi, I am in similar situation now where PR card is ending in August2023. All my family members (wife, and 2 kids) going to expire at same time and we are outside of canada and unable to travel due to pandamic and personal reasons.
I am planning to do PR renewal on H&C grounds.
Can you please share the links and what documents need to be submitted?
Is it OK to submit while I am being in India?
Really - need a immigration lawyer for this? or Can I submit on my own?
Your response will help me.
Thanks in Advance.
Regards,
Raj.
If you plan to use COVID as your main H&C reason for failing to meet RO, then I would get a consult with the immigration agency that pays for this forum. According to another member, they have filed several H&C applications with COVID as the main reason and none have been successful. So this doesn't appear to be a viable or valid reason from IRCC's perspective.
You can of course apply on your own. Ultimately it's your choice.
I thought you had to be in Canada to apply to renew your PR card and it's not possible from outside of Canada. Hopefully others will confirm if that's accurate or not.
Do you plan to return to Canada before your PR cards expire? That would really be the ideal plan vs. trying for H&C. Keep in mind that travel has been possible for quite a while now.
Thank You for your response.
and If I travel now, Will I face any queries from Immigration Officer as I won't be able to meet Residency Obligation or Will it start revoking my PR Status? this is my worry if I travel now...
Thanks.
None of us can tell you that. But in my opinion your best bet to keep your PR status is to return to Canada as soon as you can.
OK Understood. Yes Agree, but any other person travelled recently with similar situation can share their experience.
Thanks.
Could you provide link or more context please?
An 'H&C application [to keep PR status] [or what exactly?]' is a different thing than either arriving at border, applying for PRTD, and/or appealing prtd/report at border.
I don't have the link. This information was posted on the forum by another member who had been in touch with Cohen about their case.
Apparently a number of people (with Cohen's help) have attempted to apply for PR card renewal under H&C (presumably after entering Canada) using COVID as the primary reason and none of these applications have been successful. Maybe some were PRTD applications under H&C with COVID as the reason. Regardless, the key points are that IRCC doesn't seem to be accepting just COVID as a reason for failing to meet RO and that Cohen has managed several cases like this and they are therefore a good information point on what may or may not work.
Thank you. Good to have some concrete signs even if vague at this point.
I still believe would be useful to have more concrete info about exactly what kind of application the H&C request was for. H&C renewal is a pretty rare thing (primary context of which I believe is where PRTD was already granted).
I expect that some of these would / will be overturned on appeal, but that overall iRCC will not give blanket relief - and we are now far enough away from covid travel restrictions that much will depend on case specifics. We know, for example, that some including covid as a reason for relief were already out of compliance before covid started. It would be a major omission on the part of an applicant or their legal counsel NOT to include covid as a reason, but does not also mean that including covid will be sufficient.
Also interesting to see how CBSA at ports of entry will approach (probably eventually similarly but with a lag).
Anyway, clear the direction this will go - can't be an excuse forever.
I'll try to find the post later. The post doesn't have a ton of details.
The concrete info is sitting with Cohen so that's why I recommended the other poster reach out to them for a consult.
Overall: There is not much point, if any, to pursuing H&C relief unless and until you are prepared to come to Canada to stay. For a PR currently in breach of the RO (a PR who has been outside Canada more than 1095 days since landing, or if the PR landed more than five years ago, in the last five years), the best chance of being allowed to keep PR status is to make the move to Canada as soon as possible. And do so intending to STAY.
To Confirm -- YES, Presence in Canada Is Necessary to Make PR card application: A PR must declare they are present in Canada as of the date they make a PR card application. Without making this declaration, the form will not allow proceeding with a PR card application.
This effectively means the PR must be in Canada to make a PR card application.
There is nothing other than IRCC's instructions imposing the requirement to be present in Canada at the time of the application. And in the past many ignored this instruction. Now, however, the applicant must affirmatively declare presence in Canada in order to even make an application, to get the form to work (no options are listed in question 1.1, for example, until the PR declares being in Canada or outside Canada, and only if "in Canada" is checked will the form allow choosing an option to make a PR card application). The consequences for misrepresentation are far more severe than merely failing to follow instructions. (For example, IRCC does not generally deny a PR card application because the PR was outside Canada at the time they made the application; but if the PR's declaration of presence is not true, that is misrepresentation, and a stand alone ground for denying the application, and maybe also grounds for determining the PR to be inadmissible, terminating PR status.)
I do not know if there is some way a lawyer or authorized consultant can circumvent this. I do not know what would happen if the PR checked the box declaring their presence in Canada and then, after completing and printing the form, used a pen to cross that declaration off and state, in writing, they are outside Canada, and sent the application in that way. Not something I'd suggest trying.
If you read through topics here, just following topic titles referencing H&C, or RO breach or being short, you should easily find many anecdotal reports in this forum about arriving at a Port-of-Entry into Canada while in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. Additionally, scores of actual cases are officially reported in published IAD decisions, many of which are linked in numerous discussions here. Sorting useful information from all that, that might illuminate how things could go for you, is no easy task since there is so much variation from case to case, and outcomes vary considerably even in very similar situations.
To summarize just a bit of that (what we learn from anecdotal reports and published IAD decisions, along with information published by IRCC):
For a PR currently in breach of the PR Residency Obligation (as it appears you are), as long as the PR still has a valid PR card they can use that to travel to Canada. Upon arrival here, as a PR they will be allowed to enter Canada (even if issued a Removal Order for the RO breach). How it actually goes at the PoE, upon arrival here, can vary a lot, ranging from just being waived into Canada (without being questioned much), all the way to being issued a Removal Order (sometimes called a Departure Order). As others have noted, being in breach does indeed mean the PR will be at RISK of RO compliance questions and potentially subject to inadmissibility proceedings. Again, even if that happens and that results in being issued a Removal Order, the PR will still be allowed to enter Canada, and if the PR appeals they will be allowed to stay pending the appeal.
Lots of factors figure into what the probabilities are, in regards to how things could go at the PoE; there are too many factors, and many of those factors are too variable, for anyone here to proffer a reasonable or reliable forecast of what will happen in a particular case. A lot depends on just how much the PR has been in Canada compared to why they remained outside Canada as long as they have.
The same H&C reasons you would present in an application for a new PR card relying on H&C relief can be presented, if needed, during inadmissibility proceedings at the PoE. The officer considering H&C reasons can decide to set aside the Inadmissibility Report for those H&C reasons, or proceed to issue a Removal Order. (And, again, the PR still gets to enter Canada, but would need to appeal to stay more than 30 days.)
Despite some suggestions otherwise, there is no reason to doubt, none at all actually, that delays due to Covid are a valid explanation which MUST BE given consideration. The question, the real question, is how much positive weight this factor will have, and how that influences the overall H&C calculation, balancing all the other relevant factors, positive and negative.
It is important to recognize that no one factor determines the outcome of a H&C case. The H&C case always involves balancing multiple factors. In some circumstances, individual factors can dominate the calculus. A case involving a PR removed from Canada as a minor is among the most obvious examples, some PRs in that situation getting H&C relief allowing them to retain PR status despite spending ZERO days in Canada during the relevant five years. But even in those cases, other factors are considered and can influence the outcome -- NOT all PRs removed as a minor are given H&C relief allowing them to keep PR status.
No one factor dictates the outcome of a H&C case.
How much weight the Covid factor will carry is limited and surely on the decline. This deserves more attention, in the broader context of H&C calculations generally, but for now it warrants noting that a PR is not even in breach of the RO until they have spent more than 1095 days abroad, either since landing or, if they have been a PR for five years, during the last five years, and there is no way that Covid alone can fully explain a three year absence. Moreover, as Covid-related travel restrictions, and perhaps just as importantly, Covid-related reasons to delay travel otherwise, are more and more past tense, obviously Covid ALONE cannot fully explain a PR's continued absence without, at the least, some additional context as to why, why in particular it has delayed the PR's travel to Canada. Particularly lately.
EXAMPLE: PR with child who has severe respiratory ailments making the child especially vulnerable to serious Covid complications would obviously have had reason, based on Covid-related risks, to delay travel returning to Canada longer than formal travel restrictions delayed their return. (But then there is still the question about how much longer, and whether the PR made the move to Canada as soon as it was practically reasonable.)
Reminder: H&C cases are intensely personal, in which particular factors can and often do have widely varying weight depending on how they relate to other circumstances. Perhaps the most common illustration of this is recognizing that in some situations remaining abroad for employment reasons may actually be a positive H&C factor, despite how this would be a substantially negative factor for most PRs. It depends. It ALWAYS depends. Which is a big, big part of why it is so damn difficult to forecast how these cases will go for anyone in particular.
Regarding what someone said that someone else said about what Cohen-connected lawyers have said:
I know nothing about what experience the lawyers hosting this site have had with presenting Covid as a reason for H&C relief. The someone-said-they-said references here do not illuminate much at all. No particular expertise necessary to recognize that Covid ALONE could be and likely would be insufficient (not enough) in a great many RO breach cases (nearly all by now, if not all). In contrast, nonetheless, no real expertise necessary to recognize that Covid can honestly explain, at least in part, some delay in returning to Canada, and (even if this seems often overlooked or misunderstood in this forum) it is clear that the law requires such a factor be taken into consideration. In between, it has been just out and out obvious that a lot of H&C relief has been allowed these past two plus years due to the impact Covid has had. But it has been just as obvious, that scores of PRs fail to comply with the RO for personal reasons unrelated to Covid. So, again, the H&C case is intensely personal, very much dependent on the particular individual's situation, all things considered (almost literally all things considered).
What seems so poorly understood is that what matters is how much weight a H&C factor has in the particular individual's case, and there is not any points-chart dictating how much weight any particular factor carries; the weight varies, and it will vary considerably in different contexts, different scenarios, relative to different individuals and their personal situations. And then, additionally, any such factor, no matter how much it weight it carries, is still just a part, one part of the overall balancing of factors in the H&C calculation.
The fact that some cases are easy should not confuse us. No one should be surprised that typically, for a long time, soft-landing PRs who arrived at a PoE just a couple weeks or even a couple months or so past the point they breached the RO, have often been almost casually allowed to keep PR status despite the breach . . . or that the length of time for which there was such leniency appears to have expanded considerably during periods in which Covid was clearly a major factor in delaying travel. No one should be surprised if that window of leniency is now shrinking considerably.
BOTTOM-LINE: there is NO H&C factor that guarantees a free pass for a breach of the RO. But there is also NO reason causing someone to delay coming to Canada that CBSA or IRCC officials can or will dismiss without consideration. CBSA and IRCC must, in effect, "accept" any explanation offered (unless there is reason to conclude it is not true), but that does not dictate how much weight it carries, how influential it will be in the overall H&C calculus balancing all the other relevant factors. In regards to the latter, the length of absence, and the length of time remaining abroad after the PR could return to Canada, loom as very large factors.
I know nothing about what experience the lawyers hosting this site have had with presenting Covid as a reason for H&C relief. The someone-said-they-said references here do not illuminate much at all. No particular expertise necessary to recognize that Covid ALONE could be and likely would be insufficient (not enough) in a great many RO breach cases (nearly all by now, if not all). In contrast, nonetheless, no real expertise necessary to recognize that Covid can honestly explain, at least in part, some delay in returning to Canada, and (even if this seems often overlooked or misunderstood in this forum) it is clear that the law requires such a factor be taken into consideration. In between, it has been just out and out obvious that a lot of H&C relief has been allowed these past two plus years due to the impact Covid has had. But it has been just as obvious, that scores of PRs fail to comply with the RO for personal reasons unrelated to Covid. So, again, the H&C case is intensely personal, very much dependent on the particular individual's situation, all things considered (almost literally all things considered).
What seems so poorly understood is that what matters is how much weight a H&C factor has in the particular individual's case, and there is not any points-chart dictating how much weight any particular factor carries; the weight varies, and it will vary considerably in different contexts, different scenarios, relative to different individuals and their personal situations. And then, additionally, any such factor, no matter how much it weight it carries, is still just a part, one part of the overall balancing of factors in the H&C calculation.
The fact that some cases are easy should not confuse us. No one should be surprised that typically, for a long time, soft-landing PRs who arrived at a PoE just a couple weeks or even a couple months or so past the point they breached the RO, have often been almost casually allowed to keep PR status despite the breach . . . or that the length of time for which there was such leniency appears to have expanded considerably during periods in which Covid was clearly a major factor in delaying travel. No one should be surprised if that window of leniency is now shrinking considerably.
BOTTOM-LINE: there is NO H&C factor that guarantees a free pass for a breach of the RO. But there is also NO reason causing someone to delay coming to Canada that CBSA or IRCC officials can or will dismiss without consideration. CBSA and IRCC must, in effect, "accept" any explanation offered (unless there is reason to conclude it is not true), but that does not dictate how much weight it carries, how influential it will be in the overall H&C calculus balancing all the other relevant factors. In regards to the latter, the length of absence, and the length of time remaining abroad after the PR could return to Canada, loom as very large factors.
I would assume that the onus will be on the PR to prove that those factors preventing return during Covid are well documented and backed up with proof. Simply saying returning wasn't possible will be challenged, as in many cases it wasn't impossible, but rather extremely difficult and expensive. And even that could be a factor in determining H&C.
I'd suggest to those attempting or planning to use Covid as a means of H&C relief, you'd best have a well documented history of attempts to return from the start of the pandemic....not just a personal feeling. The border was never closed entirely to Canadian citizens and PRs, they just made you jump through some extraordinarily difficult hoops to get here.
I'd suggest to those attempting or planning to use Covid as a means of H&C relief, you'd best have a well documented history of attempts to return from the start of the pandemic....not just a personal feeling. The border was never closed entirely to Canadian citizens and PRs, they just made you jump through some extraordinarily difficult hoops to get here.