What to do after divorce

[Ivanm7331]

Actually, this discussion has not gone that far afield. This is what the OP asked.


You have said that, in Ontario (where the OP is situate), one must provide proof of divorce to get a marriage license. I see the answer as being in the negative, you say proof is a sine qua non of getting the license.

I am reinforced in my view by what I found on a Province of Ontario website (link provided, supra). The site links to a license application form. I downloaded it. It very plainly says nothing about providing any kind of proof, certificate or otherwise. That's what the OP was asking about. You still maintain the proof is a prerequisite to the license. For that to be true, the information I see on the web must be wrong. It all looks quite official to my untrained eye. But, if you are telling the OP a divorce certificate is essential, you should be able to support that, beyond just saying, in effect: "Trust me, I know these things."

Still looking for confirmation if need that proof or not.. So confusing

 

[scylla]

To answer your question, I did get married in Russia. I have both passports.

The thing is, we did the PR spousal application, and it never got approved or denied. I don't want deal with going to russia, getting the original document, and then dealing with the headache here. I was thinking of just doing the divorce in Russia, and then "forget" about it here in Canada. How does IRCC know it was a "legit" marriage, and not a scam towards me for a passport in Canada? As far as I am aware, and given the early divorce, that screams to me not a "real" marriage. So I was thinking going the first route u mentioned above.

If I do the divorce from Canada, first of all, I don't think she would be willing to do that (to give me headache) and secondly I don't know how about approaching it if shes not living in Canada.. But it does seem like in Canada divorce is much simpler. but that's assuming she would be willing to do it, which I highly doubt.

It's a real marriage if it was done legally (by the rules of that country). Even if your partner's intentions weren't genuine, IRCC will still regard the marriage as very real if it was done legally. They retain past applications so they will know you were previously married if you ever apply to sponsor someone again.

Your partner doesn't have to be cooperative to complete a divorce in Canada. She can't hold you hostage if you want a divorce. You can complete the process here with or without her agreement.

 

[Ivanm7331]

It's a real marriage if it was done legally (by the rules of that country). Even if your partner's intentions weren't genuine, IRCC will still regard the marriage as very real if it was done legally. They retain past applications so they will know you were previously married if you ever apply to sponsor someone again.

Your partner doesn't have to be cooperative to complete a divorce in Canada. She can't hold you hostage if you want a divorce. You can complete the process here with or without her agreement.

Thanks
I guess what you say makes sense, except what if the fact that you are never planning to sponsor anyone again. Would it still be possible to get divorce here in Canada if she never came to Canada AND without going through "out of country divorce" checklist? Because that's too tedious..

 

[scylla]

Still looking for confirmation if need that proof or not.. So confusing

You need proof if you are going to be honest and declare the divorce. See the link above to the Ontario website I posted earlier. It's all there. I had to go through this process with my husband who had a foreign divorce. The other person commenting isn't familiar with Ontario rules and didn't do enough research to find this basic info.

 

[scylla]

Thanks
I guess what you say makes sense, except what if the fact that you are never planning to sponsor anyone again. Would it still be possible to get divorce here in Canada if she never came to Canada AND without going through "out of country divorce" checklist? Because that's too tedious..

As far as I'm aware you can get a divorce in Ontario without her ever having come here. I'm not aware of any rules that say this isn't doable. Then your divorce will be registered in Ontario which will make remarrying easier if you ever want to do it again in the future.

 

[armoured]

To answer your question, I did get married in Russia. I have both passports.

The thing is, we did the PR spousal application, and it never got approved or denied. I don't want deal with going to russia, getting the original document, and then dealing with the headache here. I was thinking of just doing the divorce in Russia, and then "forget" about it here in Canada. How does IRCC know it was a "legit" marriage, and not a scam towards me for a passport in Canada? As far as I am aware, and given the early divorce, that screams to me not a "real" marriage. So I was thinking going the first route u mentioned above.

If I do the divorce from Canada, first of all, I don't think she would be willing to do that (to give me headache) and secondly I don't know how about approaching it if shes not living in Canada.. But it does seem like in Canada divorce is much simpler. but that's assuming she would be willing to do it, which I highly doubt.

You're overthinking this. It's pretty simple. You need to get a divorce. When you get remarried, in most jurisdictions, you will need to show you got divorced. When you get a divorce, you get that proof.

The choice between Russia and Canada for divorce is up to you. If you get divorced in Russia, to get married in Ontario you'll need to do those extra steps, but that might be years in the future, and you might get married some other place. (I can say from personal experience IRCC will accept Russian divorce & marriage documents, the only extra steps are translation and notarization).

So I don't see the choice between those two as all that critical but it's up to you. That said, I haven't done those extra steps in Ontario and don't know how much it mgiht cost - but again, you might never have to do that, were you to get married in some other jurisdiction.

 

[Ivanm7331]

You need proof if you are going to be honest and declare the divorce. See the link above to the Ontario website I posted earlier. It's all there. I had to go through this process with my husband who had a foreign divorce. The other person commenting isn't familiar with Ontario rules and didn't do enough research to find this basic info.

As far as I can see (maybe I am wrong), I can get married with a marriage license. This marriage license says nothing about previous divorce

You're overthinking this. It's pretty simple. You need to get a divorce. When you get remarried, in most jurisdictions, you will need to show you got divorced. When you get a divorce, you get that proof.

The choice between Russia and Canada for divorce is up to you. If you get divorced in Russia, to get married in Ontario you'll need to do those extra steps, but that might be years in the future, and you might get married some other place. (I can say from personal experience IRCC will accept Russian divorce & marriage documents, the only extra steps are translation and notarization).

So I don't see the choice between those two as all that critical but it's up to you. That said, I haven't done those extra steps in Ontario and don't know how much it mgiht cost - but again, you might never have to do that, were you to get married in some other jurisdiction.

okay but if I do the divorce in Canada.. the problem would be, woudnt they ask for some evidence of my marriage? Like translations, affidavit etc. I don’t have that, it’s all either in Russia, or in Russian language if I were to get a copy.

 

[scylla]

As far as I can see (maybe I am wrong), I can get married with a marriage license. This marriage license says nothing about previous divorce

okay but if I do the divorce in Canada.. the problem would be, woudnt they ask for some evidence of my marriage? Like translations, affidavit etc. I don’t have that, it’s all either in Russia, or in Russian language if I were to get a copy.

You really need to look at the link I posted earlier to Ontario's site on requirements to get married in the province. You will see that those who are divorced need to provide documents regarding the divorce in order to get a marriages license. It's all very clearly outlined on the province's web site.

I can't help with your second question. I don't have this level of knowledge or any relevant experience.

 

[armoured]

okay but if I do the divorce in Canada.. the problem would be, woudnt they ask for some evidence of my marriage? Like translations, affidavit etc. I don’t have that, it’s all either in Russia, or in Russian language if I were to get a copy.

I don't know much about getting a divorce from a foreign partner/marriage in Ontario.

As a general rule, you probably would need translation plus notarized copy of the marriage certificate, but I don't know details beyond that.

As I said: where you get the divorce done is partly/mainly personal preference.

If it can be done in Russia and you get the official copy (on fancy paper) of the divorce decree - eventually - that should be recognized and you'll be able to get anything additional done later. (If you can have someone do the notarization/translation in Moscow, fine, if not, it can be done in Canada too).

 

[armoured]

Thanks for that. Armoured said the marriage license form outlines the requirement to prove any divorce.

Oh, don't be silly. The exchange went like this: scylla said "Yes, they specifically ask about previous divorces and you must provide the paperwork to show any previous divorces were finalized."

To which I responded: "I can confirm, too, and it's on the marriage license form you complete (available on internet)."

I guess I was insufficiently specific for your purposes here, in that I didn't split these points - that they do ask about previous divorces, but that the paperwork requirement is specified elsewhere (ummm, on the internet), and not on the actual marriage license form. True that, a real achievement of nitpickery.

 

[BCTechy]

But did you get married in Russia or in Canada?

I do not know the specific gosuslugi route - but it sounds to me like that could be legit, because that is the 'government service' website and it's quite efficient. My concern would be that I think both would need to be there to have signed documents, don't know offhand. (They are als usually a bit more picky about some details for foreigners, so depends what passport you have)

To align with Armoured, it is legit and I would be more concerned about her entitlements should you get divorced in Canada such as automatic entitlement to 50% of your CPP contributions, private pension, and entitlements to spousal support should she go that route. Some of these things do not take into account the amount of time you were married (ie spousal support).

 

[Ivanm7331]

To align with Armoured, it is legit and I would be more concerned about her entitlements should you get divorced in Canada such as automatic entitlement to 50% of your CPP contributions, private pension, and entitlements to spousal support should she go that route. Some of these things do not take into account the amount of time you were married (ie spousal support).

Wait, but If shes not a Canadian citizen and I cancelled the spousal application, there's no way she can get any of those entitlements, right? Even if she somehow found a lawyer in Canada, right?

 

[BCTechy]

I am not a lawyer, but if she gets sponsored at a later date (ie employment, spouse, etc) she may be able to go after you down the road as long as statute of limitations is not expired.

 

[Ivanm7331]

I am not a lawyer, but if she gets sponsored at a later date (ie employment, spouse, etc) she may be able to go after you down the road as long as statute of limitations is not expired.

And you say if I get divorced out of country, I shall not be afraid of such problem then right?

 

[armoured]

And you say if I get divorced out of country, I shall not be afraid of such problem then right?

I do not know and strongly suggest taht you should see a lawyer to be certain.

On the Russian side, I believe the 'uncontested' divorce - where both agree - includes agreement that there is no dispute about property or support. Whether that has any significance in Canada - cf. 'lawyer.'