What to do after divorce

[Ivanm7331]

I don't know about the website divorce approach that you're referring to, but note that if you get divorced in Russia (probably easier and cheaper), IRCC will require that the 'original' of the divorce decree be provided (with a translation).

Note: 'original' here actually means an extract issued by the ZAGS (civil registry) - it can be the actual first one issued or one marked 'duplicate' in Russian (they're all considered original) - basically the ones printed on the fancy paper.

I don't think there will be any way to avoid having the physical document sent to you in Canada (eventually). Once you get that done with translation though that'll basically be all you'd need in Canada (as far as I'm aware).

If online divorce can't get you that certificate - I'd say there's something dodgy about it.

If the ex wife be able to scan the original copy and send it to me via email would that be enough?

 

[Ivanm7331]

In Russia you have two options, one is the certificate of divorce, and the other is a copy of the court decision. There are companies in Russia that can do this on your behalf and send you a PDF of the document. Then you would have it translated to english for use in a Canadian jurisdiction.

But have you heard about getting divorce through gosuslugi? She says she will do "заявление" on that website, and in 30 days that's it. I don't know how this works, as I never really lived in russia. I don't want to get fucked in anyway, she knows the law there, I don't.

Can anyone who got married in Ontario confirm if they had any questions regarding previous divorce or providing document confirming the divorce? Thanks

 

[Flyingfast]

But have you heard about getting divorce through gosuslugi? She says she will do "заявление" on that website, and in 30 days that's it. I don't know how this works, as I never really lived in russia. I don't want to get fucked in anyway, she knows the law there, I don't.

Can anyone who got married in Ontario confirm if they had any questions regarding previous divorce or providing document confirming the divorce? Thanks

The divorce has to meet Canadian standards or it wont be accepted in Canada. It the same as when you got married. It has to meet certain standards to be recognized in Canada.

 

[Flyingfast]

But have you heard about getting divorce through gosuslugi? She says she will do "заявление" on that website, and in 30 days that's it. I don't know how this works, as I never really lived in russia. I don't want to get fucked in anyway, she knows the law there, I don't.

Can anyone who got married in Ontario confirm if they had any questions regarding previous divorce or providing document confirming the divorce? Thanks

Get a divorce kit. Simple to fill out. Pay the filing fee of $202 in Ontario. You need to have her served. ( In the Yukon where I live you can serve someone via email. I had a divorce and did this ) I think she has 28 days to file a response as she is out of Canada. If she does not respond a judgement of divorce will be granted once 12 months separation has been meet.
Why deal with a Russian court? To me this is silly.

 

[armoured]

If the ex wife be able to scan the original copy and send it to me via email would that be enough?

No - they specifically require the original (which as noted actually means the extract printd on fancy paper) of the divorce decree.

 

[armoured]

But have you heard about getting divorce through gosuslugi? She says she will do "заявление" on that website, and in 30 days that's it. I don't know how this works, as I never really lived in russia. I don't want to get fucked in anyway, she knows the law there, I don't.

Can anyone who got married in Ontario confirm if they had any questions regarding previous divorce or providing document confirming the divorce? Thanks

But did you get married in Russia or in Canada?

I do not know the specific gosuslugi route - but it sounds to me like that could be legit, because that is the 'government service' website and it's quite efficient. My concern would be that I think both would need to be there to have signed documents, don't know offhand. (They are als usually a bit more picky about some details for foreigners, so depends what passport you have)

 

[armoured]

Get a divorce kit. Simple to fill out. Pay the filing fee of $202 in Ontario. You need to have her served. ( In the Yukon where I live you can serve someone via email. I had a divorce and did this ) I think she has 28 days to file a response as she is out of Canada. If she does not respond a judgement of divorce will be granted once 12 months separation has been meet.
Why deal with a Russian court? To me this is silly.

The Russian process is not any longer or more complicatd really: note, crucially, at least for an uncontested divorce (if both agree and there are no children basically). It's done by a filing through the civil registry (ZAGS or registry of [acts of] civil status I think).

I'm not familiar with how the online works but at least in Moscow, the online filings system is VERY well developed and many of these thigns can be done with simple filings. (Some can be done online and then the physical docs presented at something similar to Service Ontario). 30 day waiting period is hardly onerous.

Divorce decrees - with original and attached translation - are recognized no problem in Canada, too.

So I'm not sure here that there's any obvious compelling reasons to do it in Canada, frankly. Whether it's better or worse to do it here, whatever, but shouldn't just be dismissed.

 

[scylla]

But have you heard about getting divorce through gosuslugi? She says she will do "заявление" on that website, and in 30 days that's it. I don't know how this works, as I never really lived in russia. I don't want to get fucked in anyway, she knows the law there, I don't.

Can anyone who got married in Ontario confirm if they had any questions regarding previous divorce or providing document confirming the divorce? Thanks

I got married in Ontario. Yes, they specifically ask about previous divorces and you must provide the paperwork to show any previous divorces were finalized.

 

[armoured]

I got married in Ontario. Yes, they specifically ask about previous divorces and you must provide the paperwork to show any previous divorces were finalized.

I can confirm, too, and it's on the marriage license form you complete (available on internet).

 

[armoured]

Just a question as to whether one has occurred. I suspect Ontario knows better than to ask for proof.

I believe they do ask for it, but too lazy to chase it down.

So, should I elect to take the lowroad and lie, is that going to result in perjury charges or some such?

I think this discussion about telling the truth about being divorced / not married has gotten away from the original point, and very different scenarios:
(i) marking the box that you've not been married before when you never got divorced - the potential repercussions are substantially different, including ... your marriage being not a legal marriage, null and void; or,
(ii) you mark that it's not married because you are too lazy to get a form from another province and, hey, they're not going to go after me for this. Yes, if not caught, you're (likely) still married, and yes, a charge of perjury or equivalent may not be something They go after, and if so maybe nothign happens.* I still wouldn't recommend it but it's not a war crime.

Very different scenarios. I believe the original poster was mainly asking about (i), but my memory may be faulty. At any rate: these are very different things. You do have to get divorced to remarry, and the potential ramifications are significant.

 

[scylla]

Out of curiosity, in light of your "available on the internet" comment, I found this:

https://forms.mgcs.gov.on.ca/en/dataset/007-11018

I downloaded the form. Maybe it's out of date or just plan wrong, but, unless I missed it, I cannot see a requirement for proof of any divorce. Just a question as to whether one has occurred. I suspect Ontario knows better than to ask for proof.

I mention this because, were I now in Ontario and wanting to get a license, I'll admit I would feel a strong temptation to lie if asked about divorce if I had to prove it. I was divorced in BC. Proof would require me to apply to the BC court for a divorce certificate and to pay $50 for it ($40 if you show up in person at the appropriate court registry). It would be easy to just not admit to the divorce. What would be the downside exposure? Any negative consequence would be about as likely to manifest as winning the Powerball lottery. If somehow the terrible truth came to light, so what? Yes, I would have lied to save time and $50. The truth changes nothing. I was at all material times entitled to issuance of the license. It's not as though I obtained it through fraud.

So, should I elect to take the lowroad and lie, is that going to result in perjury charges or some such? Do Canadian courts and Crown counsel have so much time on their hands and is it a reasonable use of the public purse to pursue such a prosecution? Never gonna' happen.

Check out this link for what paperwork you need to provide if you were divorced and are getting married in Ontario. This is what they ask for when you show up with the form.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/getting-married

I had to go through the foreign divorce bit which involves additional work and legal expense and was a PITA since my husband was previously married and then divorced in the USA.

I guess I'm one of those people who is not comfortable lying about this stuff, especially given we had to declare the divorce in the PR application and submit all of the relevant paperwork there. It was critical to me that everything we submitted as part of the PR application be truthful, including how we obtained the marriage certificate. The risk to me had nothing to do with Ontario but IRCC and any sense of misrepresentation.

 

[armoured]

I had to go through the foreign divorce bit which involves additional work and legal expense and was a PITA since my husband was previously married and then divorced in the USA.

Wow, the foreign divorce section is really onerous, actually:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/getting-married#section-5

This turns the situation around rather compared to my comments above that I didn't see much difference (in the OP's case) of getting a divorce abroad vs doing it in Canada - doing it in Canada would clearly be superior (assuming OP in Ontario).

 

[scylla]

Actually, this discussion has not gone that far afield. This is what the OP asked.


You have said that, in Ontario (where the OP is situate), one must provide proof of divorce to get a marriage license. I see the answer as being in the negative, you say proof is a sine qua non of getting the license.

I am reinforced in my view by what I found on a Province of Ontario website (link provided, supra). The site links to a license application form. I downloaded it. It very plainly says nothing about providing any kind of proof, certificate or otherwise. That's what the OP was asking about. You still maintain the proof is a prerequisite to the license. For that to be true, the information I see on the web must be wrong. It all looks quite official to my untrained eye. But, if you are telling the OP a divorce certificate is essential, you should be able to support that, beyond just saying, in effect: "Trust me, I know these things."

See the link to the Ontario marriage site I provided in my post above. This outlines the requirements for the documents one needs to provide. It's all outlined there. This should be the first hit anyone gets when they google getting married in Ontario.

 

[armoured]

But, if you are telling the OP a divorce certificate is essential, you should be able to support that, beyond just saying, in effect: "Trust me, I know these things."

I was actually just saying, in part, "I'm a bit lazy right now and I think this is something anyone who has an actual self-interest in this can and should research themselves if they don't want to be massively inconvenienced." Overtaken by @scylla's post anyway.

And in part I was emphasizing (as I wrote): big, big difference between the person who wishes to play fast and loose with truth on forms and not mention being previously married because they are divorced and hence free to marry - even if that means misrepresenting on a form (which I think fair to say amounts to a violation of the law, whether an administrative infraction or misdemeanour or whatever)

vs.

omitting that one has been previously married and never been divorced, and will/may be technically liable of bigamy and certainly at risk of a new marriage being a non-marriage under the law. (Well actually it IS a non-marriage under the law, the risk is of it being discovered, as I understand).

The latter I consider a HUGE problem and risk and absolutely something to avoid. I dont think the former is a good idea either, but not going to argue with a lawyer about how much of a risk and ... not my problem.

 

[Ivanm7331]

I was actually just saying, in part, "I'm a bit lazy right now and I think this is something anyone who has an actual self-interest in this can and should research themselves if they don't want to be massively inconvenienced." Overtaken by @scylla's post anyway.

And in part I was emphasizing (as I wrote): big, big difference between the person who wishes to play fast and loose with truth on forms and not mention being previously married because they are divorced and hence free to marry - even if that means misrepresenting on a form (which I think fair to say amounts to a violation of the law, whether an administrative infraction or misdemeanour or whatever)

vs.

omitting that one has been previously married and never been divorced, and will/may be technically liable of bigamy and certainly at risk of a new marriage being a non-marriage under the law. (Well actually it IS a non-marriage under the law, the risk is of it being discovered, as I understand).

The latter I consider a HUGE problem and risk and absolutely something to avoid. I dont think the former is a good idea either, but not going to argue with a lawyer about how much of a risk and ... not my problem.

To answer your question, I did get married in Russia. I have both passports.

The thing is, we did the PR spousal application, and it never got approved or denied. I don't want deal with going to russia, getting the original document, and then dealing with the headache here. I was thinking of just doing the divorce in Russia, and then "forget" about it here in Canada. How does IRCC know it was a "legit" marriage, and not a scam towards me for a passport in Canada? As far as I am aware, and given the early divorce, that screams to me not a "real" marriage. So I was thinking going the first route u mentioned above.

If I do the divorce from Canada, first of all, I don't think she would be willing to do that (to give me headache) and secondly I don't know how about approaching it if shes not living in Canada.. But it does seem like in Canada divorce is much simpler. but that's assuming she would be willing to do it, which I highly doubt.