PR or Visitor Visa? Dilemma

[bekruz]

Hi guys,

I won't bore you with the details so I'm gonna cut to the chase.
My wife-to-be is an Indonesian citizen, we plan to marry next year but there is one problem: Cold weather affects her big time.

Now Canada isn't our only option because I have multiple western citizenships, but Canada is my preference personally.
Before going through the lengthy tiring PR process, it'd be nice to experience living in Canada together for a year or so before deciding what to do.

In this context, she would be a Visitor in Canada and wouldn't really care about working (I'm a work from home software engineer so whether she works or not doesn't really matter).
How about immigration? What if after we get married we apply for a visitor visa for her to live in and experince Canada and its winter? Can we do that as a married couple?
Or should we simply apply for her PR? I'm trying the best to avoid getting any rejection from immigration since rejections can impact future applications too.

What I thought is to explain the situtaion to immigration and get her a 1-year visitor visa, then if all goes well we start an inland PR process.

Thanks a lot for any help you provide guys!

 

[canuck78]

Hi guys,

I won't bore you with the details so I'm gonna cut to the chase.
My wife-to-be is an Indonesian citizen, we plan to marry next year but there is one problem: Cold weather affects her big time.

Now Canada isn't our only option because I have multiple western citizenships, but Canada is my preference personally.
Before going through the lengthy tiring PR process, it'd be nice to experience living in Canada together for a year or so before deciding what to do.

In this context, she would be a Visitor in Canada and wouldn't really care about working (I'm a work from home software engineer so whether she works or not doesn't really matter).
How about immigration? What if after we get married we apply for a visitor visa for her to live in and experince Canada and its winter? Can we do that as a married couple?
Or should we simply apply for her PR? I'm trying the best to avoid getting any rejection from immigration since rejections can impact future applications too.

What I thought is to explain the situtaion to immigration and get her a 1-year visitor visa, then if all goes well we start an inland PR process.

Thanks a lot for any help you provide guys!

If you explain what you plan on doing her TRV will be denied and rightly so because she wouldn’t be a visitor she would want to live in Canada for a year. Is she currently employed where you live? Do you live in Indonesia or another country? Does she have property in her name? Approximately how much savings does she have? Has she travelled internationally before especially to countries like the US, Australia, UK, etc.?

 

[bekruz]

If you explain what you plan on doing her TRV will be denied and rightly so because she wouldn’t be a visitor she would want to live in Canada for a year. Is she currently employed where you live? Do you live in Indonesia or another country? Does she have property in her name? Approximately how much savings does she have? Has she travelled internationally before especially to countries like the US, Australia, UK, etc.?

Oh ok that makes sense.
in that case i guess we should stick with the regular PR process? outland from Indonesia.

She is well educated and has a good paying office job (relatively to Indonesia) and travelled internationally but not to western countries, rather to Turkey and Dubai and South Korea etc.

Another thing I worry about is fraud originating from southeast Asia. I don’t worry about the girl we’ve known each other for a long while and I was able to verify her intentions beyond the shadow of a doubt and beyond what the government can do. It’s immigration that i worry about cuz they might treat her as if she’s planning to commit fraud because of the high fraud case coming from southeast Asia.

That’s why i’m trying to find the best course of action.

 

[canuck78]

Oh ok that makes sense.
in that case i guess we should stick with the regular PR process? outland from Indonesia.

She is well educated and has a good paying office job (relatively to Indonesia) and travelled internationally but not to western countries, rather to Turkey and Dubai and South Korea etc.

Another thing I worry about is fraud originating from southeast Asia. I don’t worry about the girl we’ve known each other for a long while and I was able to verify her intentions beyond the shadow of a doubt and beyond what the government can do. It’s immigration that i worry about cuz they might treat her as if she’s planning to commit fraud because of the high fraud case coming from southeast Asia.

That’s why i’m trying to find the best course of action.

You’ll only be able to apply once you are married or after you’ve lived together for a continuous year. It will likely be difficult to get a TRV given her travel history and citizenship although you can certainly try if you want and it won’t hurt her sponsorship application. If you’ve been in a longterm relationship and have proof that you’ve been dating this whole time, travelled together, etc. and there are no red flags like huge age differences, major cultural differences that would make marriage unusual, no family at your wedding without good reason, etc. then you shouldn’t face huge concerns about fraud. Canada gets a lot of applications for sponsorship with a lot less proof than your situation. You will need concrete proof that you intend to relocate to Canada once she has PR if you are living abroad. You can update your file closer to the date if needed with proof. You should plan for around a year of processing although it could take a bit longer due to backlogs.

 

[bekruz]

You’ll only be able to apply once you are married or after you’ve lived together for a continuous year. It will likely be difficult to get a TRV given her travel history and citizenship although you can certainly try if you want and it won’t hurt her sponsorship application. If you’ve been in a longterm relationship and have proof that you’ve been dating this whole time, travelled together, etc. and there are no red flags like huge age differences, major cultural differences that would make marriage unusual, no family at your wedding without good reason, etc. then you shouldn’t face huge concerns about fraud. Canada gets a lot of applications for sponsorship with a lot less proof than your situation. You will need concrete proof that you intend to relocate to Canada once she has PR if you are living abroad. You can update your file closer to the date if needed with proof. You should plan for around a year of processing although it could take a bit longer due to backlogs.

Oh really? Getting a denial for TRV doesn't affect the PR application? I thought immigration look at her visa application history with Canada and having a denial in that history has a negative effect.

And yes exactly, similar cultures, same religion, I'm 30 she is 28, we're planing a wedding party with 50 family members and friends. Traveling together and photos showing everything. Boring typical case really.

Another question I wanted to ask is about my relocation. I read that in the official guide as well.
So another citizenship I have is the Israeli one. Operating out of Israel is much easier than doing it from Canada simply because if I decide to go to Indonesia tomorrow I can just buy a ticket tonight and be on the plane. So I'm living in Israel technically but keep visiting Indonesia every now and then.
My employer is Israeli too, but the company doesn't care whether I live In Israel or in Canada and if i decide to move to Canada they will give me a letter stating my intention to move back to Canada and they simply send me the salary to Canada (we've done this before). Is that proof enough? Like how can I prove to Canada my intentions to go back after the process is done?

 

[canuck78]

Oh really? Getting a denial for TRV doesn't affect the PR application? I thought immigration look at her visa application history with Canada and having a denial in that history has a negative effect.

And yes exactly, similar cultures, same religion, I'm 30 she is 28, we're planing a wedding party with 50 family members and friends. Traveling together and photos showing everything. Boring typical case really.

Another question I wanted to ask is about my relocation. I read that in the official guide as well.
So another citizenship I have is the Israeli one. Operating out of Israel is much easier than doing it from Canada simply because if I decide to go to Indonesia tomorrow I can just buy a ticket tonight and be on the plane. So I'm living in Israel technically but keep visiting Indonesia every now and then.
My employer is Israeli too, but the company doesn't care whether I live In Israel or in Canada and if i decide to move to Canada they will give me a letter stating my intention to move back to Canada and they simply send me the salary to Canada (we've done this before). Is that proof enough? Like how can I prove to Canada my intentions to go back after the process is done?

TRV denial doesn’t impact PR application. May impact temporary permit/visa application like study permit, work permit or future visitor applications. Can also impact travel to other countries. In general one refusal is unlikely to have a huge impact on most temporary applications. When you have many refusals that tends to have more consequences. Will you be living with your spouse once you get married either in Israel or Indonesia? If not, that may raise concerns so that is something you will need to address. Unfortunately because so many spouses were not actually relocating to Canada permanently after getting PR approval you will likely need more concrete proof than a letter from your employer. In your case you will be remaining with the same employer so proof of a new job or searching for a new job is not an option and neither is giving notice to your current employer. Proof of how you are setting up your employment in Canada for when you are a tax resident may be an option since it’s not as simple as just paying you but in Canada. If you are renting giving notice for your rental and providing proof that you are searching or securing a rental in Canada would be an option. If you are buying and selling providing proof of both would count. Many are asked for more proof that they are relocating before approval so that could be an option closer to approval date. Providing proof of public announcements that you will be moving to Canada is another option. It will be a combination of multiple things.

 

[bekruz]

TRV denial doesn’t impact PR application. May impact temporary permit/visa application like study permit, work permit or future visitor applications. Can also impact travel to other countries. In general one refusal is unlikely to have a huge impact on most temporary applications. When you have many refusals that tends to have more consequences. Will you be living with your spouse once you get married either in Israel or Indonesia? If not, that may raise concerns so that is something you will need to address. Unfortunately because so many spouses were not actually relocating to Canada permanently after getting PR approval you will likely need more concrete proof than a letter from your employer. In your case you will be remaining with the same employer so proof of a new job or searching for a new job is not an option and neither is giving notice to your current employer. Proof of how you are setting up your employment in Canada for when you are a tax resident may be an option since it’s not as simple as just paying you but in Canada. If you are renting giving notice for your rental and providing proof that you are searching or securing a rental in Canada would be an option. If you are buying and selling providing proof of both would count. Many are asked for more proof that they are relocating before approval so that could be an option closer to approval date. Providing proof of public announcements that you will be moving to Canada is another option. It will be a combination of multiple things.

Ohh i see.

Once we are married we will be living together in Indonesia. Right now we're not living together for a reason.
We are both Muslims, we are really religious but rather conservative, so there are religious boundaries we just prefer not to cross. Once we are married there are no boundaries so I'll simply go to Indonesia and we'll be living togetehr until the process is done. So in the mean time I go to indonesia once every 3 months and my stay is normally a whole month.

As for relocation to Canada, do they need that proof upon submitting thea pplication? Or will it be required towards the end of the process?
If its towards the end of the process, then as soon as we submit the application package I can begin looking for a job in Canada and relocate once I secure one.

Once again thanks a lot for you help!

 

[canuck78]

Ohh i see.

Once we are married we will be living together in Indonesia. Right now we're not living together for a reason.
We are both Muslims, we are really religious but rather conservative, so there are religious boundaries we just prefer not to cross. Once we are married there are no boundaries so I'll simply go to Indonesia and we'll be living togetehr until the process is done. So in the mean time I go to indonesia once every 3 months and my stay is normally a whole month.

As for relocation to Canada, do they need that proof upon submitting thea pplication? Or will it be required towards the end of the process?
If its towards the end of the process, then as soon as we submit the application package I can begin looking for a job in Canada and relocate once I secure one.

Once again thanks a lot for you help!

You can submit proof of relocation at any point but realistically it isn’t possible for most people until at least partway through the process. Would update when you are closer to the end of the process or when you have information. I would at least initially provide proof of announcements that you will be relocating to Canada to friends and family preferably publicly on something like social media and in emails to family for example. You can provide more concrete proof loafer on in the process.