Disavow portion of Citizenship oath

[jbourne]

My Citizenship Oath Ceremony scheduled on Oct 21st,
I stumbled upon this link http://disavowal.ca/.
now my question is how can I avoid the first part of Oath where its swears pledge of allegiance to queen and he heirs

 

[MegaT]

My question is, (out of curiosity, not rude) why you're applying to the Canadian citizenship if you know already that you have to take the oath?

 

[GTAIndian]

My Citizenship Oath Ceremony scheduled on Oct 21st,
I stumbled upon this link http://disavowal.ca/.
now my question is how can I avoid the first part of Oath where its swears pledge of allegiance to queen and he heirs

Interesting question. Looking for the answers from the experts.

 

[jbourne]

My question is, (out of curiosity, not rude) why you're applying to the Canadian citizenship if you know already that you have to take the oath?

If Canada, (in words of current prime minister) stands for individual freedom, rights, democratic values, why should one pledge allegiance to Queen ?
I don't see anyone who were born in Canada, pledging allegiance to Queen. If charter of rights is equal amongst all citizens and permanent residents, why this discrimination of pledging allegiance to queen/king who were symbol of oppression, slavery, repressor of rights of individual freedom in almost half of the world only towards naturalized immigrants. I always had this in my mind to avoid, if there are any means to avoid it I shall.
If Canada is land of free and a democratic nation, why allegiance to a monarch.

with all due respect, why shouldn't I apply for citizenship and at the same time not agree with the part of the oath. I feel that you are implying the same, if I don't agree with govt, I shouldn't live in this country.

 

[head2ca]

Canada is a constitutional monarchy. Monarch symbolically is responsible for enforcing constitutional traditions as they exists today. Though symbolic, monarch is the core that holds different laws and government authorities together. Similar to how you take an oath to bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution in the US and India, you would have take an oath to bear true faith and allegiance to the Monarch(similar to saying that you bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution of Canada).

 

[armoured]

My Citizenship Oath Ceremony scheduled on Oct 21st,
I stumbled upon this link http://disavowal.ca/.
now my question is how can I avoid the first part of Oath where its swears pledge of allegiance to queen and he heirs

To my knowledge:
-if you do not swear the oath as required and it is noticed by those administering it, they can indeed deny you citizenship and your participation in the ceremony, on the spot. While rare, my understanding is that it does and has happened.
-if you wish to rely on simply not saying it and take the chance, sure, you might get away with it. It's also a completely meaningless gesture because by completing the ceremony and accepting citizenship, you're basically deemed by law to have sworn that oath. Crossing your fingers during the oath doesn't mean you didn't swear the oath either.
-sure, you can disavow it after the ceremony, in whatever form you want. It's also completely meaningless. You can also write disavowal statements, publish them in the Globe, and swear oaths before lawyers that the sky is purple and declare publicly that Lake Ontario is made of metal - utterly meaningless.

That website is made by cranks and fabulists, who can't even make a website properly - you think their legal pronouncements mean anything?

If you disagree with the oath that strongly - don't participate in the ceremony. Go on, have the courage of your convictions.

Or you could do what's expected and allowed in Canada: become a citizen and express your views any way you like (within the law). Vote.

 

[MegaT]

If Canada, (in words of current prime minister) stands for individual freedom, rights, democratic values, why should one pledge allegiance to Queen ?
I don't see anyone who were born in Canada, pledging allegiance to Queen. If charter of rights is equal amongst all citizens and permanent residents, why this discrimination of pledging allegiance to queen/king who were symbol of oppression, slavery, repressor of rights of individual freedom in almost half of the world only towards naturalized immigrants. I always had this in my mind to avoid, if there are any means to avoid it I shall.
If Canada is land of free and a democratic nation, why allegiance to a monarch.

with all due respect, why shouldn't I apply for citizenship and at the same time not agree with the part of the oath. I feel that you are implying the same, if I don't agree with govt, I shouldn't live in this country.

I see. You have the right to think what you want, but I think that you're not really adhering to Canada.

The passport that you will be holding mention the oath. If you're not accepting that oath, why applying for the Canadian citizenship at the first place? For now, the monarchy is a part of Canada. The monarchy is also a part of the Canadian history. Neither you or anyone on the website that you sent will change the Canadian history.

If you're not accepting that, avoid yourself the troubles, they will notice that you didn't pronounce the oath correctly and they will consider it as non-valid, someone did mention this in the forum before.

See the picture of the inside of your future passport if you take the oath. If you become citizen, you can express your point of view via the elections.

Good luck.

 

[wink]

If Canada, (in words of current prime minister) stands for individual freedom, rights, democratic values, why should one pledge allegiance to Queen ?
I don't see anyone who were born in Canada, pledging allegiance to Queen. If charter of rights is equal amongst all citizens and permanent residents, why this discrimination of pledging allegiance to queen/king who were symbol of oppression, slavery, repressor of rights of individual freedom in almost half of the world only towards naturalized immigrants. I always had this in my mind to avoid, if there are any means to avoid it I shall.
If Canada is land of free and a democratic nation, why allegiance to a monarch.

with all due respect, why shouldn't I apply for citizenship and at the same time not agree with the part of the oath. I feel that you are implying the same, if I don't agree with govt, I shouldn't live in this country.

This was discussed sometime back in the other thread:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/so-this-is-what-we-will-be-pledging-allegiance-to.777191/post-10212420

Summary: Just get on with it and be done.

 

[americanidiot]

My Citizenship Oath Ceremony scheduled on Oct 21st,
I stumbled upon this link http://disavowal.ca/.
now my question is how can I avoid the first part of Oath where its swears pledge of allegiance to queen and he heirs

You need some hobbies my dude

 

[Mounat]

-if you wish to rely on simply not saying it and take the chance, sure, you might get away with it. It's also a completely meaningless gesture because by completing the ceremony and accepting citizenship, you're basically deemed by law to have sworn that oath. Crossing your fingers during the oath doesn't mean you didn't swear the oath either.

About as meaningless a gesture as actually saying the words in the oath. Considering, as well, that most Canadians are born in Canada and never take an oath of allegiance to a monarchy while those seeking naturalization do. It's like the pledge of allegiance to the flag most American children recite every morning. It's a series of empty words whose time and relevance has long passed.

To the poster, armoured gave you good advice. Either stick to your principals and skip the ceremony, with all the consequences that entails. Or, say it with conviction then vote the monarchy out once you're a Canadian citizen.

 

[armoured]

About as meaningless a gesture as actually saying the words in the oath.

You can disagree with the words in the oath, but it is most assuredly not meaningless in the sense that I was referring to: you both get something meaningful by saying the oath (citizenship), and take on specific responsibilities that apply to citizens. The oath has specific legal meaning, and meaningful legal consequences.

Saying only part of it and getting caught has a meaningful consequence - you will likely be denied citizenship. (Not getting caught has no meaning separate from saying the oath in full, because you will still be deemed to have taken the oath - just as crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't work in a legal context).

Whereas "disavowing" and other such gibberish has no legal meaning or consequences whatsoever - it's 100% meaningless. It is exactly as meaningful legally as writing in the air with your finger, or farting the US constitution in morse.

 

[medwiz]

You can disagree with the words in the oath, but it is most assuredly not meaningless in the sense that I was referring to: you both get something meaningful by saying the oath (citizenship), and take on specific responsibilities that apply to citizens. The oath has specific legal meaning, and meaningful legal consequences.

Saying only part of it and getting caught has a meaningful consequence - you will likely be denied citizenship. (Not getting caught has no meaning separate from saying the oath in full, because you will still be deemed to have taken the oath - just as crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't work in a legal context).

Whereas "disavowing" and other such gibberish has no legal meaning or consequences whatsoever - it's 100% meaningless. It is exactly as meaningful legally as writing in the air with your finger, or farting the US constitution in morse.

If someone farts the ENTIRE US Constitution in morse code...they deserve to be granted Canadian citizenship on the spot ..no oath needed

 

[Mounat]

You can disagree with the words in the oath, but it is most assuredly not meaningless in the sense that I was referring to: you both get something meaningful by saying the oath (citizenship), and take on specific responsibilities that apply to citizens. The oath has specific legal meaning, and meaningful legal consequences.

I submit it is meaningless because most people who say it, in the process of acquiring Canadian citizenship, have absolutely no understanding or intention of ever being "faithful" or "bear true allegiance" to someone who's not even Canadian. I further submit that (the first part of) this oath is simply historical, antiquated and is trying to have it both ways: the Queen is merely a symbol, not a literal head of state. But woe to those who don't swear allegiance to this historic, symbolic, and foreign monarch (along with all their descendants and successors). I couldn't possibly put it in better terms than Emer O'toole did.

Saying only part of it and getting caught has a meaningful consequence - you will likely be denied citizenship. (Not getting caught has no meaning separate from saying the oath in full, because you will still be deemed to have taken the oath - just as crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't work in a legal context).

If one takes an oath to tell the truth in a court of law, violating that oath is perjury with tangible consequences. Even if one says the first part of the oath to become a Canadian citizen, there are no consequences for violating it. They're empty words with just as empty consequences.

I do agree with your very last statement though!

 

[armoured]

I submit it is meaningless

Your submission has no bearing on whether the oath has legal meaning. It does, whether or not you like the words.

 

[abbas.pasha]

Maybe a new troll on the forum eh