Unfair treatment to online applicants. Is there anything we can do?

[trumprefugee]

Lots of material here! Just want to address two points:

Something that needs to be made clear is that it is not that cessation of protected person status "means that PR status can also be revoked," but the determination of cessation itself automatically terminates PR status. It is indeed a severe consequence, and for many potentially an especially harsh outcome. It is indeed a situation rife with injustice.

But IRCC has little or nothing to do with this (although it apparently does refer some individuals to CBSA for investigation if there is clear evidence of reavailment presented in an application). It is the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness which investigates and prosecutes cessation proceedings before the RPD. There is no notice in those proceedings, so far as I am aware, of the impact on PR status if the RPD determines the individual's protected person status has ceased, but that decision in itself automatically terminates PR status. NO H&C relief available. This is by operation of law, not any decision made by IRCC.

Regarding the refugee PRs, thanks for the correction, which further underscores the need either for faster citizenship processing or removing the most onerous restrictions on PR mobility after a certain number of years or, for the refugees, getting rid of the law that automatically terminates PR status when cessation is determined. (Yes, unrelated to the original subject of this thread about paper vs online, but relevant to my point that PR status isn't great and why many people are in a hurry to get citizenship.)

If Canada had, for example, a probationary period of conditional permanent residence for a certain reasonable amount of time, like the US does for spousal sponsorship and certain entrepreneur immigrants, and then the restrictions were moved (refugees no longer automatically losing PR status after cessation and PNP PRs allowed to live in any province), I'm sure way fewer people would be in such a rush to get citizenship. But given the current often onerous restrictions that many Canadian PRs are subjected to, and the fact that the only way out if the PR wants to maintain permanent status in Canada is to get citizenship, this is why people are so desperate to get citizenship.

Loose cannon diatribes more or less attacking the Canadian immigration system as if it was a singular sentient being utterly miss the mark, at best vaguely identifying issues, at worst (and this is more common) causing confusion and misunderstanding. Take this topic for example, as I have illuminated, IRCC has actually given priority to a small percentage of online applicants, the first five thousand in the order in which they applied, these five thousand getting processed ahead of much older paper applications. The documents referenced well-explain why this fairly small number of online applicants have been, in effect, put ahead in the queue. But for whatever personal agenda some forum participants have come here to sow confusion and chaos by totally misrepresenting what IRCC has done in making this effort to facilitate the migration to a more digitally based processing system, still concentrating on processing the older paper applications, but using this small number of online applications to get that process rolling.

Yes, IRCC did prioritize the December 2020 online applications, but as others have indicated and also cited, after this first batch, paper applications are being prioritized over online, and quite significantly so. This would further add to the confusion of what is being prioritized, until many months after the fact.

 

[degm]

The simple fact is - according to the Excel tracker - 2022 paper applicants are being quickly processed while 2022 online applicants are languishing. I can't comment on applications from 2021 and before. If we have solid proof (for the current fiscal year) other than the Excel sheet, we can complain to the media.

Yes, I mean people like dpenabill obsessing over the interpretation of the information provided on the ATIP (or ATI or whatever it's called - irrelevant). But ultimately the fact is (per the trackers and posts on this forum) that there are hundreds of people whose paper applications are being processed faster than most online. Like, how many times do we have to explain that nobody wants to skip the line, but be processed on a "first come, first served" basis?

And the same goes for people whose paper applications from 2019/20 are still being processed. Saying "you should count your blessings" is not the point here, y'all should be as upset as online applicants for the awful service they're receiving.

 

[wink]

Yes, I am not sure dpenabill understood what we are talking about...

 

[firstax]

@depenabill is a troll or a staff of IRCC, no one should engage. There is proof that Online applications made in 2022 are not being processed at all. Paper applications made in 2022 are being processed speedily, in some cases i have seen ones concluded in 4 months. We are not asking to be put ahead of anyone. We are asking that our files be processed at the same time and speed as the paper applications.
We are also tax payers who also paid the fees for the citizenship application, Is it a crime to be treated fairly. Its already 9 months since January 2022 applicants submitted their online apps with no movement on their files. IRCC should have focused all their energy to clear out the backlog and then continue on a first come first serve. I'm sure Online applicants wouldn't mind a few weeks or 1 month or so lag in their processing time. But its almost 1 year and there is no clear guidelines on what IRCC intends to do with Online applications. This is why we are worried and this is why there's multiple threads about Online applications

 

[canuck78]

it has been discussed numerous times how unfair their process is. It is like communism - you cannot question and they do not feel like we deserve an answer or any transparency. Worst System Ever.

People have lost their minds. Would suggest living in a communist country and see the difference between Canada and the country. You are legally allowed to order the current information on your application you can talk to your government official, you can actually get citizenship, you haven’t had to bribe anyone, etc.

 

[canuck78]

Its a big problem if IRCC can't order the application by date. But i'm not surprise of the bureaucracy here...

Placing millions of applications in order of receipt and processing them in order of receipt would be an enormous administrative task that would just slow down the process.

 

[dpenabill]

PINNED NOTE: posts claiming that IRCC is prioritizing paper applications over online applications are at best simply NOT true. Some of this, here, appears to be deliberately false and misleading.

@depenabill is a troll or a staff of IRCC

I assume this was in reference to me, @dpenabill. Will note that in this, in reference to my user ID here, you are closer to accurate (but it warrants noting, with some emphasis, NOT accurate) than you are otherwise.

I am not staff with IRCC. Never have been. Never employed by any Canadian government body.

I am no troll in this forum. My participation here (since I have become a Canadian citizen) has been focused on just a few of the more complicated, what one might describe as issues potentially subject to litigation (and indeed, issues for which there are many Federal Court and IAD cases reported in published decisions), in regards to citizenship and PR obligations. I make a concerted effort to make positive contributions, to help. Some illustrative examples of the effort I make to contribute can be seen in these topics, just a sample:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refugee-status-cessation-and-prs-applying-for-citizenship.333455/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/rq-versus-physical-presence-questionnaires-including-cit-0205.534082/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/toward-understanding-bill-c-6-to-amend-citizenship-act-new-3-5-rule-plus.400167/

In contrast, there is no basis for claiming that IRCC is not processing online applications. That is an outright false claim.

Yes, IRCC did prioritize the December 2020 online applications, but as others have indicated and also cited, after this first batch, paper applications are being prioritized over online, and quite significantly so. This would further add to the confusion of what is being prioritized, until many months after the fact.

But ultimately the fact is (per the trackers and posts on this forum) that there are hundreds of people whose paper applications are being processed faster than most online.

The facts do NOT support these claims. Again, the cited quote of IRCC memorandum refers to concentrating on processing OLDER applications, with NO indication whatsoever that as applications are made, paper applications are given any priority over online applications. It does NOT say what @mbaleine and others here claim it says. That narrative is FALSE.

The purported super-fast processing of some 2022 paper applications are, at most, isolated reports (assuming they are more truthful than many posts in this topic) of a few exceptions and do NOT add up to anywhere near "hundreds" or even a hundred 2022 paper applications for which the applicant has taken the oath.

There are reportedly FIVE forum participants claiming to have made paper applications in February this year reporting having taken or being scheduled to take the oath. Just Five. Among many THOUSANDS of applications made in February this year.

Like, how many times do we have to explain that nobody wants to skip the line, but be processed on a "first come, first served" basis?

There is no basis for claiming that IRCC is not following its standard, first into the queue first processed procedures.

There tends to be widespread misunderstanding about how IRCC queues work. It is first into the queue for a particular task, first handled in doing that task. There is NO hint that IRCC is deviating from this in regards to paper compared to online applications. That is, first come, first served, on a task-by-task basis.

So it is very common for later-made applications to end up in a queue in front of an earlier made application, and the further along the processing path applications go, the more this can affect the order in which applications will be handled at the next step.

Thus, for example, if an applicant gets a Finger Print request and it ends up sitting waiting for that to be done, so the attendant task, depending on step it is at, can be completed, and say it is stalled for three or so months, that will put that application three or so months behind in the next queue. Some applications will fall further and further behind as they go from step to step, while at the other end of the spectrum some applications routinely sail through each step, going directly into the next queue for the next step (often literally minutes after an agent picks up the file to do the respective step).

Any sidestep along the way tends to put that application further and further behind other applications arriving at IRCC the same day.

Meanwhile, processing timelines vary considerably from one local office to another.

It is likely that online applications are in different processing streams, so sure, their place in the queue depends on when they pass each respective step in the stream they are in . . . just like applications in different local offices are processed first in, first handled queues within the local office, and are no longer being processed relative to the queues in other local offices.

In any event, notwithstanding the purported FIVE cases in which February 2022 paper applicants have benefitted from super-fast processing, there is no basis to conclude that paper applications are getting any priority over online applications, and no basis to conclude that any group of applications, paper or online or otherwise, are not being processed consistently with the first into the queue, next served in that queue order (let alone the blatantly unfounded claim that IRCC has "stopped" processing online applications).

 

[canuck78]

I think the definition of "availing yourself of your country's protection" is quite unfair in that it includes simply using the country's passport. As for refugees admitted on the basis of fearing for their lives in their home countries, well, it's not necessarily fearing death but also persecution. There are a number of reasons why a refugee would fear for their lives or safety if they were living in their home countries but still be able to reasonably visit temporarily, like being able to escape the notice of whoever is persecuting them during a short term visit versus being more easily spied on and found if they were still living there. Also, they could have fled a war that has since ended, but given the long processing times, this could be 10+ years later and they are well settled in Canada and would not be able to adapt to returning permanently to their home countries (think particularly of kids who came at a relatively young age)



The problem is the lack of any kind of official guidance of how long they must remain in the province of nomination. But to go back to the wording in the official documents, when you accept a nomination, you are "indicating to both IRCC and that provincial or territorial jurisdiction that you are intending to reside in that province or territory and that you will comply with other related program requirements." "program requirements" being the intent to settle in the province. Intentions can and do change after one has moved and lived in the province for a while, but if questioned, the burden is on the PR to prove intent. And how long do the program requirements last? There is no mention of length of time, so it follows that these requirements apply as long as one is a PR.

I do know some people who moved from their province of nomination after 2+ years and were questioned in citizenship interviews for having moved. If questioned, one needs to have an excuse that IRCC considers valid, such as inability to find a job in-province despite a fair amount of effort. You can't just move because of personal preferences.

And yes, there are PNP folks who move before citizenship and don't get in trouble for it. That does not mean that it is okay to move, just as some refugees do manage to keep their PRs and get citizenship despite a visit or two back home. The government does not enforce the rules in every situation, and also whether an excuse for breaking the rules is valid can be a subjective matter. But if you want to be safe and not risk being one of those who do get in trouble, you need to follow the rules.


This is all nonsense. Under the charter of rights PRs have free movement between provinces. I would suggest that people attempt to settle in the province they applied to under PNP because they got PR under that program but if they actually did land in the province they have a legal argument that they meet at the conditiins because they have free movement. I would recommend people remain for at lease few weeks or preferably a few months and have proof that they did actually try to find employment in that province but if someone spent years in the province they got PNP just to be 100% safe but not years. Attempting to remain in the province who nominated you is just good optics but based on the charter of rights if you were ever questioned you could say that you landed in the nominated province and then left because under the charter of rights I am legally allowed to and the questioning would likely end there. Would ass that I have never seen any questioning If someone has remained in a province for years.

When seeking the protection of another country you are actually saying that your life is at risk in another country. If the situation in a country changes during the asylum process then the whole application will be reconsidered at the hearing or the person has the option to return to their home country because it is now safe because the war is over. Canada dies offer access to a refugee travel document so it is not like protected people are forced to remain in Canada until citizenship. Kids don’t return to countries on their own and are quite resilient. They travel with their parents and it is up to parents to make decisions what is best for their children.



Divorcing before citizenship would certainly raise questions, and whether reasons for divorcing are valid and what constitutes abuse can be subjective. Again, if questioned, the burden is on the PR to prove that no marriage fraud existed. And just because some people can divorce before citizenship and not face any negative consequences does not mean that doing so is not risky.


Again complete nonsense. There are no questions if people get divorce before citizenship unless there are significant red flags that the relationship may have never been real. If people got divorced right after arriving in Canada and had never lived together abroad, dated before marriage, etc. then there may be some enquiries about the validity of the relationship but most cases of divorce have years in a relationship and then they get divorced which is perfectly reasonable and will not raise any concerns. in this cases Canada is looking out for immigration fraud in general not looking for people living normal lives to justify their divorces.


FSW EE immigrants applied on the condition of intending to reside outside of Quebec, similar to PNP folks who applied on the condition of intending to reside in their province of nomination. Enforcement of the rule to reside outside of Quebec does seem to be enforced less often than the PNP requirements to stay in province, probably because it is less common for FSW folks to want to move to Quebec, and those who do, already have good French proficiency and integrate well enough not to draw attention. Still, the rules are the rules, and if you break them, you are taking risks, if not of rejection of citizenship application and/or revocation of PR status, then of at least more scrutiny and delays in your application.


Free movement. It’s part of the charter of rights.

An analogy is how most people who commit crimes or infractions do not get caught. Most people have driven above speed limits at times, but most of the time, they were not caught. Others have committed petty theft and not gotten caught. But just because most people don't get caught, or you haven't gotten caught yet, does not mean you aren't breaking rules or that you will never get caught.

 

[canuck78]

Just a reminder that this forum has access to a small percentage of the current citizenship applications.

 

[canuck78]

Lots of material here! Just want to address two points:



Regarding the refugee PRs, thanks for the correction, which further underscores the need either for faster citizenship processing or removing the most onerous restrictions on PR mobility after a certain number of years or, for the refugees, getting rid of the law that automatically terminates PR status when cessation is determined. (Yes, unrelated to the original subject of this thread about paper vs online, but relevant to my point that PR status isn't great and why many people are in a hurry to get citizenship.)

If Canada had, for example, a probationary period of conditional permanent residence for a certain reasonable amount of time, like the US does for spousal sponsorship and certain entrepreneur immigrants, and then the restrictions were moved (refugees no longer automatically losing PR status after cessation and PNP PRs allowed to live in any province), I'm sure way fewer people would be in such a rush to get citizenship. But given the current often onerous restrictions that many Canadian PRs are subjected to, and the fact that the only way out if the PR wants to maintain permanent status in Canada is to get citizenship, this is why people are so desperate to get citizenship.




Yes, IRCC did prioritize the December 2020 online applications, but as others have indicated and also cited, after this first batch, paper applications are being prioritized over online, and quite significantly so. This would further add to the confusion of what is being prioritized, until many months after the fact.

The US can easily deport people which it does which is one of the reasons that the US has different policies like allowing k1 visas and giving the spouses 90 days to get married. It is easier to enter the US than Canada because they have policies that allow them to remove people easily. For example if a couple doesn’t get married or if the spouse calls immigration and says they are withdrawing the K1, the person can be easily deported. In Canada they could file numerous applications, get legal aid, apply for welfare, etc.

 

[firstax]

PINNED NOTE: posts claiming that IRCC is prioritizing paper applications over online applications are at best simply NOT true. Some of this, here, appears to be deliberately false and misleading.



I assume this was in reference to me, @dpenabill. Will note that in this, in reference to my user ID here, you are closer to accurate (but it warrants noting, with some emphasis, NOT accurate) than you are otherwise.

I am not staff with IRCC. Never have been. Never employed by any Canadian government body.

I am no troll in this forum. My participation here (since I have become a Canadian citizen) has been focused on just a few of the more complicated, what one might describe as issues potentially subject to litigation (and indeed, issues for which there are many Federal Court and IAD cases reported in published decisions), in regards to citizenship and PR obligations. I make a concerted effort to make positive contributions, to help. Some illustrative examples of the effort I make to contribute can be seen in these topics, just a sample:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refugee-status-cessation-and-prs-applying-for-citizenship.333455/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/rq-versus-physical-presence-questionnaires-including-cit-0205.534082/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/toward-understanding-bill-c-6-to-amend-citizenship-act-new-3-5-rule-plus.400167/

In contrast, there is no basis for claiming that IRCC is not processing online applications. That is an outright false claim.







The facts do NOT support these claims. Again, the cited quote of IRCC memorandum refers to concentrating on processing OLDER applications, with NO indication whatsoever that as applications are made, paper applications are given any priority over online applications. It does NOT say what @mbaleine and others here claim it says. That narrative is FALSE.

The purported super-fast processing of some 2022 paper applications are, at most, isolated reports (assuming they are more truthful than many posts in this topic) of a few exceptions and do NOT add up to anywhere near "hundreds" or even a hundred 2022 paper applications for which the applicant has taken the oath.

There are reportedly FIVE forum participants claiming to have made paper applications in February this year reporting having taken or being scheduled to take the oath. Just Five. Among many THOUSANDS of applications made in February this year.




There is no basis for claiming that IRCC is not following its standard, first into the queue first processed procedures.

There tends to be widespread misunderstanding about how IRCC queues work. It is first into the queue for a particular task, first handled in doing that task. There is NO hint that IRCC is deviating from this in regards to paper compared to online applications. That is, first come, first served, on a task-by-task basis.

So it is very common for later-made applications to end up in a queue in front of an earlier made application, and the further along the processing path applications go, the more this can affect the order in which applications will be handled at the next step.

Thus, for example, if an applicant gets a Finger Print request and it ends up sitting waiting for that to be done, so the attendant task, depending on step it is at, can be completed, and say it is stalled for three or so months, that will put that application three or so months behind in the next queue. Some applications will fall further and further behind as they go from step to step, while at the other end of the spectrum some applications routinely sail through each step, going directly into the next queue for the next step (often literally minutes after an agent picks up the file to do the respective step).

Any sidestep along the way tends to put that application further and further behind other applications arriving at IRCC the same day.

Meanwhile, processing timelines vary considerably from one local office to another.

It is likely that online applications are in different processing streams, so sure, their place in the queue depends on when they pass each respective step in the stream they are in . . . just like applications in different local offices are processed first in, first handled queues within the local office, and are no longer being processed relative to the queues in other local offices.

In any event, notwithstanding the purported FIVE cases in which February 2022 paper applicants have benefitted from super-fast processing, there is no basis to conclude that paper applications are getting any priority over online applications, and no basis to conclude that any group of applications, paper or online or otherwise, are not being processed consistently with the first into the queue, next served in that queue order (let alone the blatantly unfounded claim that IRCC has "stopped" processing online applications).

lets all pretend that there's no proof of online applications in 2022 not being processed at the same rate as paper applications.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1_KE3Bu3C3gOyEm0mRVcJH9nEA2u2GOhfpUZOckOWmN0/htmlview#

 

[degm]

PINNED NOTE: posts claiming that IRCC is prioritizing paper applications over online applications are at best simply NOT true. Some of this, here, appears to be deliberately false and misleading.



I assume this was in reference to me, @dpenabill. Will note that in this, in reference to my user ID here, you are closer to accurate (but it warrants noting, with some emphasis, NOT accurate) than you are otherwise.

I am not staff with IRCC. Never have been. Never employed by any Canadian government body.

I am no troll in this forum. My participation here (since I have become a Canadian citizen) has been focused on just a few of the more complicated, what one might describe as issues potentially subject to litigation (and indeed, issues for which there are many Federal Court and IAD cases reported in published decisions), in regards to citizenship and PR obligations. I make a concerted effort to make positive contributions, to help. Some illustrative examples of the effort I make to contribute can be seen in these topics, just a sample:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refugee-status-cessation-and-prs-applying-for-citizenship.333455/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/rq-versus-physical-presence-questionnaires-including-cit-0205.534082/

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/toward-understanding-bill-c-6-to-amend-citizenship-act-new-3-5-rule-plus.400167/

In contrast, there is no basis for claiming that IRCC is not processing online applications. That is an outright false claim.







The facts do NOT support these claims. Again, the cited quote of IRCC memorandum refers to concentrating on processing OLDER applications, with NO indication whatsoever that as applications are made, paper applications are given any priority over online applications. It does NOT say what @mbaleine and others here claim it says. That narrative is FALSE.

The purported super-fast processing of some 2022 paper applications are, at most, isolated reports (assuming they are more truthful than many posts in this topic) of a few exceptions and do NOT add up to anywhere near "hundreds" or even a hundred 2022 paper applications for which the applicant has taken the oath.

There are reportedly FIVE forum participants claiming to have made paper applications in February this year reporting having taken or being scheduled to take the oath. Just Five. Among many THOUSANDS of applications made in February this year.




There is no basis for claiming that IRCC is not following its standard, first into the queue first processed procedures.

There tends to be widespread misunderstanding about how IRCC queues work. It is first into the queue for a particular task, first handled in doing that task. There is NO hint that IRCC is deviating from this in regards to paper compared to online applications. That is, first come, first served, on a task-by-task basis.

So it is very common for later-made applications to end up in a queue in front of an earlier made application, and the further along the processing path applications go, the more this can affect the order in which applications will be handled at the next step.

Thus, for example, if an applicant gets a Finger Print request and it ends up sitting waiting for that to be done, so the attendant task, depending on step it is at, can be completed, and say it is stalled for three or so months, that will put that application three or so months behind in the next queue. Some applications will fall further and further behind as they go from step to step, while at the other end of the spectrum some applications routinely sail through each step, going directly into the next queue for the next step (often literally minutes after an agent picks up the file to do the respective step).

Any sidestep along the way tends to put that application further and further behind other applications arriving at IRCC the same day.

Meanwhile, processing timelines vary considerably from one local office to another.

It is likely that online applications are in different processing streams, so sure, their place in the queue depends on when they pass each respective step in the stream they are in . . . just like applications in different local offices are processed first in, first handled queues within the local office, and are no longer being processed relative to the queues in other local offices.

In any event, notwithstanding the purported FIVE cases in which February 2022 paper applicants have benefitted from super-fast processing, there is no basis to conclude that paper applications are getting any priority over online applications, and no basis to conclude that any group of applications, paper or online or otherwise, are not being processed consistently with the first into the queue, next served in that queue order (let alone the blatantly unfounded claim that IRCC has "stopped" processing online applications).

Lol okay bro. Listen, you're not going to gaslight us with your 3-page posts, word-bolding and nitpicking every specific detail everyone writes to suit your narrative.

Just for you to know, this conversation you're just including yourself in has been going on for months amongst online applicants. I've never seen you around in the November-December-January threads. Go take a look and compare the speed in which both types of applications are moving forward. So no matter how hard you're trying to spin it, we're making conclusions based on the the spreadsheets (2021/22) and what other users have been reported over the past several months. I will personally not take at face value your understanding of it, because it is actually you who doesn't have the matching receipts (at least not more so than we do).

 

[dpenabill]

lets all pretend that there's no proof of online applications in 2022 not being processed at the same rate as paper applications.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1_KE3Bu3C3gOyEm0mRVcJH9nEA2u2GOhfpUZOckOWmN0/htmlview#

There is a total of 16, just sixteen 2022 applicants, reaching the oath so far. Out of not just the FEW hundred total applicants with information in the entire spreadsheet for 2022 applicants, but out of more than a HUNDRED THOUSAND applications made so far in 2022 (estimated based on typical application rates for first eight months of a given year).

There is no proof. No pretending necessary.

I am not one to encourage anyone to utilize one or the other; the online procedure or the paper procedure. It is not just possible but likely there is some difference in processing times, since processing times vary so widely as is, and more so when comparing applications in one stream versus another. But it is also likely that the first ones today will later be last, to abuse a quote from Bob Dylan, just like all the efforts to compare processing timelines in local offices (albeit, as much as this goes back and forth for various offices, it does seem Montreal tends to have the overall longer timelines the most often).

But the claim that IRCC has "stopped" processing online applications is a bold face lie. Does NOT fly. And there is no support for the claim that incoming paper applications are given priority processing over online applications. The fact that 19 individuals (out of tens of thousands of applications) CLAIM to have made their application this year and have already taken or are scheduled to take the oath does not offer any probative evidence to the contrary.

My bet would be with paper going more smoothly, and thus quickly, as a general proposition for now, nothing to do with any processing priorities but rather given that IRCC is a massive bureaucracy known to struggle with changes, known to stumble and often stumble badly adapting, and there is an utter absence of a historical trail to consider in assessing how IRCC's citizenship department would make the transition.

But that said, it's been long enough that the migration to digital processing should be at least catching up and otherwise not tripping so much now over the glitches and pitfalls that so frequently besiege IRCC's efforts to change, so it is probably sixes either way.

I've never seen you around in the November-December-January threads. Go take a look and compare the speed in which both types of applications are moving forward. So no matter how hard you're trying to spin it, we're making conclusions based on the the spreadsheets (2021/22) and what other users have been reported over the past several months. I will personally not take at face value your understanding of it, because it is actually you who doesn't have the matching receipts (at least not more so than we do).

The difference is starting a topic that is on its face misleading. There is no credible basis for claiming a systemic prioritizing of incoming paper applications over online applications. I do not police this site and make no effort to push back every stupid lie and mischaracterization of the process. But occasionally, like when a topic like this gives the false narrative a high profile, sometimes I will pushback.

I can read the spreadsheets. I can and have read the information obtained from IRCC. I can see what you and what @mbaleine and others have misrepresented about what that information says (including that in the spreadsheets). I know whining and hyperbolic caviling when I see it.

And I know there are plenty of real problems needing attention. Yeah, bugs me when me-first ego-centric when do I get mine, are we there yet, are we there yet, obscure what the real issues are.

My track record in the forum stands for itself. I am not here to be a nuisance. I am calling out the malarkey.

 

[armoured]

... and then the restrictions were moved (refugees no longer automatically losing PR status after cessation and PNP PRs allowed to live in any province), I'm sure way fewer people would be in such a rush to get citizenship.

You again conflate two completely separate issues: one which is real (reavailment for refugees) and another which is basically fake (the so-called PNP issue, because PNP Prs can in fact live in any province).

But given the current often onerous restrictions that many Canadian PRs are subjected to,

Onerous only if anyone listens to the fantasy, made-up versions you're pitching and conflating with entirely different issues.

and the fact that the only way out if the PR wants to maintain permanent status in Canada is to get citizenship, this is why people are so desperate to get citizenship.

What? It's dead simple to maintain permanent resident status in Canada. The way to do it is by ... actually residing in Canada.

That doesn't of course mean people who meet the requirements shouldn't want to become citizens, and want and expect it to be processed in reasonable timeframes. But to depict it as desperation caused by 'onerous restrictions' is absurd.

 

[firstax]

There is a total of 16, just sixteen 2022 applicants, reaching the oath so far. Out of not just the FEW hundred total applicants with information in the entire spreadsheet for 2022 applicants, but out of more than a HUNDRED THOUSAND applications made so far in 2022 (estimated based on typical application rates for first eight months of a given year).

There is no proof. No pretending necessary.

I am not one to encourage anyone to utilize one or the other; the online procedure or the paper procedure. It is not just possible but likely there is some difference in processing times, since processing times vary so widely as is, and more so when comparing applications in one stream versus another. But it is also likely that the first ones today will later be last, to abuse a quote from Bob Dylan, just like all the efforts to compare processing timelines in local offices (albeit, as much as this goes back and forth for various offices, it does seem Montreal tends to have the overall longer timelines the most often).

But the claim that IRCC has "stopped" processing online applications is a bold face lie. Does NOT fly. And there is no support for the claim that incoming paper applications are given priority processing over online applications. The fact that 19 individuals (out of tens of thousands of applications) CLAIM to have made their application this year and have already taken or are scheduled to take the oath does not offer any probative evidence to the contrary.

My bet would be with paper going more smoothly, and thus quickly, as a general proposition for now, nothing to do with any processing priorities but rather given that IRCC is a massive bureaucracy known to struggle with changes, known to stumble and often stumble badly adapting, and there is an utter absence of a historical trail to consider in assessing how IRCC's citizenship department would make the transition.

But that said, it's been long enough that the migration to digital processing should be at least catching up and otherwise not tripping so much now over the glitches and pitfalls that so frequently besiege IRCC's efforts to change, so it is probably sixes either way.



The difference is starting a topic that is on its face misleading. There is no credible basis for claiming a systemic prioritizing of incoming paper applications over online applications. I do not police this site and make no effort to push back every stupid lie and mischaracterization of the process. But occasionally, like when a topic like this gives the false narrative a high profile, sometimes I will pushback.

I can read the spreadsheets. I can and have read the information obtained from IRCC. I can see what you and what @mbaleine and others have misrepresented about what that information says (including that in the spreadsheets). I know whining and hyperbolic caviling when I see it.

And I know there are plenty of real problems needing attention. Yeah, bugs me when me-first ego-centric when do I get mine, are we there yet, are we there yet, obscure what the real issues are.

My track record in the forum stands for itself. I am not here to be a nuisance. I am calling out the malarkey.

I love how you pick and choose which data points support your argument. Now lets do how many paper apps have gone past background check vs online applicants. And also how many Paper apps have gotten test invites vs Online. You think everyone who applied online in 2022 is impatient and want theirs done first or they are really concerned and do not want to wait for a few years to get what others are getting in a few months?