PR living in the U.S. with Canadian Citizen spouse visiting

[patrick91]

Hi,

So I've asked a question similar to this before but need to ask about it again. I'm a Canadian citizen living in the U.S. with my U.S. citizen spouse. Originally we lived in Canada, and she got her PR status through our marriage, I sponsored her. She is a Canadian PR but her PR card expired in 2018. It is my understanding that, by living with me in the U.S. she still meets the residency obligation and is entitled to hold on to her PR status.

We're planning to visit in a few months. We visited in 2021 and there were a whole load of issues at the border, we got flagged and had to go to a private room for a long time. The border agent had to get others involved, and they wanted to revoke her PR status and take her card away. When we tried to fight that, they also told her she needed to renounce her status if she was not living in Canada anymore. I had to explain to them that she meets the PR residency obligation by virtue of living with me, her Canadian citizen spouse, outside of Canada.

After a lot of back and forth, they decided to let us go through the border. They let her through and marked her passport with a PR stamp. After all that, they told us that she needed to have a new PR card to be able to enter Canada the next time. I tried to explain then that she can't get a new PR card because she's not living in Canada, and IRCC won't mail cards outside Canada, and you can't have it mailed to a third party. Then she said we needed to contact our local embassy or consulate, and they will issue her a new PR card. I don't think that's true, but I'm sure all of this is on her file when she tries to enter Canada again.

What do you think we should do when trying to enter Canada again? I think if we contact the local embassy or consulate, they'll probably say the only thing they can do is a PRTD or something, which she doesn't need because she has a U.S. passport.

Thanks!

 

[cansha]

Hi,

So I've asked a question similar to this before but need to ask about it again. I'm a Canadian citizen living in the U.S. with my U.S. citizen spouse. Originally we lived in Canada, and she got her PR status through our marriage, I sponsored her. She is a Canadian PR but her PR card expired in 2018. It is my understanding that, by living with me in the U.S. she still meets the residency obligation and is entitled to hold on to her PR status.

We're planning to visit in a few months. We visited in 2021 and there were a whole load of issues at the border, we got flagged and had to go to a private room for a long time. The border agent had to get others involved, and they wanted to revoke her PR status and take her card away. When we tried to fight that, they also told her she needed to renounce her status if she was not living in Canada anymore. I had to explain to them that she meets the PR residency obligation by virtue of living with me, her Canadian citizen spouse, outside of Canada.

After a lot of back and forth, they decided to let us go through the border. They let her through and marked her passport with a PR stamp. After all that, they told us that she needed to have a new PR card to be able to enter Canada the next time. I tried to explain then that she can't get a new PR card because she's not living in Canada, and IRCC won't mail cards outside Canada, and you can't have it mailed to a third party. Then she said we needed to contact our local embassy or consulate, and they will issue her a new PR card. I don't think that's true, but I'm sure all of this is on her file when she tries to enter Canada again.

What do you think we should do when trying to enter Canada again? I think if we contact the local embassy or consulate, they'll probably say the only thing they can do is a PRTD or something, which she doesn't need because she has a U.S. passport.

Thanks!

Can I count any time I’ve spent outside of Canada toward the physical presence requirement when applying for citizenship? (cic.gc.ca)

• lived outside Canada with your Canadian spouse or common-law partner or permanent resident spouse, common-law partner, or parent who was employed in or with the:
  • Canadian Armed Forces
  • federal public administration
  • public service of a province or territory

Are you employed in any of the above three kinds of jobs? If not, then your spouse doesn't meet residency obligations.

 

[yay_321]

Hi,

So I've asked a question similar to this before but need to ask about it again. I'm a Canadian citizen living in the U.S. with my U.S. citizen spouse. Originally we lived in Canada, and she got her PR status through our marriage, I sponsored her. She is a Canadian PR but her PR card expired in 2018. It is my understanding that, by living with me in the U.S. she still meets the residency obligation and is entitled to hold on to her PR status.

We're planning to visit in a few months. We visited in 2021 and there were a whole load of issues at the border, we got flagged and had to go to a private room for a long time. The border agent had to get others involved, and they wanted to revoke her PR status and take her card away. When we tried to fight that, they also told her she needed to renounce her status if she was not living in Canada anymore. I had to explain to them that she meets the PR residency obligation by virtue of living with me, her Canadian citizen spouse, outside of Canada.

After a lot of back and forth, they decided to let us go through the border. They let her through and marked her passport with a PR stamp. After all that, they told us that she needed to have a new PR card to be able to enter Canada the next time. I tried to explain then that she can't get a new PR card because she's not living in Canada, and IRCC won't mail cards outside Canada, and you can't have it mailed to a third party. Then she said we needed to contact our local embassy or consulate, and they will issue her a new PR card. I don't think that's true, but I'm sure all of this is on her file when she tries to enter Canada again.

What do you think we should do when trying to enter Canada again? I think if we contact the local embassy or consulate, they'll probably say the only thing they can do is a PRTD or something, which she doesn't need because she has a U.S. passport.

Thanks!

Yes, she is still a PR. The information above given by @cansha relates to when you apply for Citizenship for her, but if you want to keep renewing her PR status you can.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/card/permanent-resident-determination.html

Since you are citizen, she can continue to renew her PR status.

 

[patrick91]

Yes, she is still a PR. The information above given by @cansha relates to when you apply for Citizenship for her, but if you want to keep renewing her PR status you can.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/card/permanent-resident-determination.html

Since you are citizen, she can continue to renew her PR status.

Thanks, we don't have any plans to apply for citizenship for her right now as I'm pretty sure we'd have to be living in Canada for that. But yeah it was my understanding that she can hold on to her PR status as long as we're married, and that I don't need to work in the Canadian Armed Forces, federal public administration or the public service of a province or territory.

Do you know how she can get a new PR card based on these rules? Should we actually contact our local embassy/consulate to get a new PR card? I've never heard of anyone doing that before.

 

[yay_321]

Thanks, we don't have any plans to apply for citizenship for her right now as I'm pretty sure we'd have to be living in Canada for that. But yeah it was my understanding that she can hold on to her PR status as long as we're married, and that I don't need to work in the Canadian Armed Forces, federal public administration or the public service of a province or territory.

Do you know how she can get a new PR card based on these rules? Should we actually contact our local embassy/consulate to get a new PR card? I've never heard of anyone doing that before.

Here is how to apply for PR card - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-card/how-to-apply.html

 

[patrick91]

Here is how to apply for PR card - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-card/how-to-apply.html

Are you eligible?
To be eligible for a PR Card, you must:

• be a permanent resident of Canada;
• be physically present in Canada;
• meet the residency requirement (see Appendix A – Residency obligation);
• not be under an effective removal order;
• not be a Canadian citizen; and
• not be convicted of an offense related to the misuse of a PR Card

But what about the fact that she lives outside Canada, and the bold part here that says she must be physically present in Canada to renew her PR card? It is my understanding that they won't mail a new PR card to a non-Canadian address, and they will not mail it to a third party (or that it is illegal to do so). I think people have done this in the past from my past research but I can't confirm that.

 

[yay_321]

Are you eligible?
To be eligible for a PR Card, you must:

• be a permanent resident of Canada;
• be physically present in Canada;
• meet the residency requirement (see Appendix A – Residency obligation);
• not be under an effective removal order;
• not be a Canadian citizen; and
• not be convicted of an offense related to the misuse of a PR Card

But what about the fact that she lives outside Canada, and the bold part here that says she must be physically present in Canada to renew her PR card? It is my understanding that they won't mail a new PR card to a non-Canadian address, and they will not mail it to a third party (or that it is illegal to do so). I think people have done this in the past from my past research but I can't confirm that.

I am not 100% sure. But looks like she has to be here to apply for a PR card. There is a document called PRTD which she can apply for here is more info https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/permanent-residents.html#outsidecanada

 

[Ponga]

Hi,

So I've asked a question similar to this before but need to ask about it again. I'm a Canadian citizen living in the U.S. with my U.S. citizen spouse. Originally we lived in Canada, and she got her PR status through our marriage, I sponsored her. She is a Canadian PR but her PR card expired in 2018. It is my understanding that, by living with me in the U.S. she still meets the residency obligation and is entitled to hold on to her PR status.

We're planning to visit in a few months. We visited in 2021 and there were a whole load of issues at the border, we got flagged and had to go to a private room for a long time. The border agent had to get others involved, and they wanted to revoke her PR status and take her card away. When we tried to fight that, they also told her she needed to renounce her status if she was not living in Canada anymore. I had to explain to them that she meets the PR residency obligation by virtue of living with me, her Canadian citizen spouse, outside of Canada.

After a lot of back and forth, they decided to let us go through the border. They let her through and marked her passport with a PR stamp. After all that, they told us that she needed to have a new PR card to be able to enter Canada the next time. I tried to explain then that she can't get a new PR card because she's not living in Canada, and IRCC won't mail cards outside Canada, and you can't have it mailed to a third party. Then she said we needed to contact our local embassy or consulate, and they will issue her a new PR card. I don't think that's true, but I'm sure all of this is on her file when she tries to enter Canada again.

What do you think we should do when trying to enter Canada again? I think if we contact the local embassy or consulate, they'll probably say the only thing they can do is a PRTD or something, which she doesn't need because she has a U.S. passport.

Thanks!

How are you legally eligible to live in the U.S.?
Never mind, I discovered that you are a dual citizen...which may add to the possible `issue' outlined below.

It's important to understand that just because she is with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that those days outside of Canada automatically count towards her Residency Obligation. It seems as though it depends, in part, on `who followed who'. Since she is a citizen in the country where you are living, this could possibly be seen as you following her, right? It's also important to note that even if the CBSA officer suspects that she is non-compliant in meeting the R.O., they cannot revoke the PR status `on the spot', nor can they seize the PR card itself. This is clearly detailed in ENF32 (enforcement manual from CBSA) in section 7.8 Examining permanent residents at a POE:

When a permanent resident appears at a POE for examination, the officer must confirm that the person is a permanent resident. Officers must remain cognizant of the fact that the Act gives permanent residents of Canada the right to enter Canada at a port of entry once it is established that a person is a permanent resident, regardless of non-compliance with the residency obligation in A28 or the presence of other grounds of inadmissibility.


If, however, a report is created, pursuant to A44(1) regarding non-compliance, that could lead to the status being revoked, but would not happen overnight.

 

[Ponga]

I am not 100% sure. But looks like she has to be here to apply for a PR card. There is a document called PRTD which she can apply for here is more info https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/permanent-residents.html#outsidecanada

Correct. She has to be in Canada to apply for a new PR card. Since she is a U.S. citizen, she would not need a PRTD; she can simply enter as a PR of Canada, which she currently is...unless/until status is revoked or renounced.

 

[patrick91]

How are you legally eligible to live in the U.S.?
Never mind, I discovered that you are a dual citizen...which may add to the possible `issue' outlined below.

It's important to understand that just because she is with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that those days outside of Canada automatically count towards her Residency Obligation. It seems as though it depends, in part, on `who followed who'. Since she is a citizen in the country where you are living, this could possibly be seen as her following you, right? It's also important to note that even if the CBSA officer suspects that she is non-compliant in meeting the R.O., they cannot revoke the PR status `on the spot', nor can they sieze the PR card itself. This is clearly detailed in ENF32 (enforcement manual from CBSA) in section 7.8 Examining permanent residents at a POE:

When a permanent resident appears at a POE for examination, the officer must confirm that the person is a permanent resident. Officers must remain cognizant of the fact that the Act gives permanent residents of Canada the right to enter Canada at a port of entry once it is established that a person is a permanent resident, regardless of non-compliance with the residency obligation in A28 or the presence of other grounds of inadmissibility.


If, however, a report is created, persuant to A44(1) regarding non-compliance, that could lead to the status being revoked, but would not happen overnight.

Thanks so much for the info!!

 

[Ponga]

Thanks so much for the info!!

My pleasure.

IMHO, you should investigate the `who followed who' and determine what, if anything, you can do or say the next time she is questioned by CBSA. All it takes is an officer creating that report!

Start, here:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

Also worth noting that unlike before, CBSA is apparently now tracking exit data from U.S. (and Canadian) citizens leaving Canada. This is because of the joint venture `Beyond the Border' between CBSA/CBP, where Phase 4 was to now include these travelers (by land in 2019 and by air in 2020).

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/07/11/us-and-canada-continue-commitment-securing-our-borders-begin-phase-iii-entryexit

https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-and-canada-continue-commitment-to-securing-our-borders-begin-phase-iii-of-the-entry-exit-project-under-the-beyond-the-border-initiative/


Phase III of this program expands the exchange of data to include U.S. and Canadian citizens, and continue the sharing of data on legal permanent residents and third country nationals.