Public notaries refuse to sign non accompanying parent imm5604

[Yorker13]

Hi all,

Myself and my soon to be ex wife have a verbal agreement on solving our disputes outside the court regarding divorce and children custody, where she agreed to give me full custody over our children and also sign the declaration form of non accompanying parent imm5604e.

as per the instructions on the imm5604 , she have to sign the form in front of a public notary who will witness the signature, then sign and stamp the form.

she tried many private notaries but all said since the document is issued by foreign country and will be used outside UAE, they cant sign on it but can provide a seperate paper testifying of her signature and their license as approved notary by ministry of justice in UAE

as for the public notary of the court of abu dhabi, they said they cant as well sign on that paper but she can make a no objection letter where she states that she have no objection for the children to immigrate to Canada, then she can translate it to English then attest it from the Canadian embassy in UAE .

I was thinking , to use a canadian public notary who can provide this service online by witnessing the signature then sign and stamp it, will that work

I would appreciate if someone can assist on how to get an alternative document to the imm5604e . ??

 

[armoured]

she tried many private notaries but all said since the document is issued by foreign country and will be used outside UAE, they cant sign on it but can provide a seperate paper testifying of her signature and their license as approved notary by ministry of justice in UAE

Personally I think this might work because it is a thing in some countries that notaries can only witness in certain circumstances. (Note, especially, in many countries notaries cannot witness signing of a foreign-language document, more below).

Unfortunately I do not know of a way to confirm this in advance but I think you should have a good chance that it will be accepted and not returned. I mean, after all, the only thing different is that they are not witnessing by signing in the box.

as for the public notary of the court of abu dhabi, they said they cant as well sign on that paper but she can make a no objection letter where she states that she have no objection for the children to immigrate to Canada, then she can translate it to English then attest it from the Canadian embassy in UAE . ,,,

I would appreciate if someone can assist on how to get an alternative document to the imm5604e . ??

If the objection of the notary is that they cannot witness a 'foreign govt document', I have direct evidence that IRCC is actually not so picky about the specific form here (but does require the content to be basically the same). I had to deal with this due to the translation issue above. I ended up just having a translator do the translation and the notary witnessed the dual-language doc.

Afterwards though I found a link on IRCC's website that gave a dual language version - and note, it does not state that it is a government form, doesn't have the imm5604 title, etc.

See here:
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/pdf/kits/guides/e33075.pdf

Since this was official at the time, can't see why a version like this wouldn't work.

Good luck.

 

[armoured]

There is no need to do any of this. As a soon to be exwife who you have already been separated from for quite some time she doesn’t qualify as a non-accompanying parent and should be removed from any sponsorship application. You need to withdraw her sponsorship.

I think you may have misunderstood: imm5604 is used for the parent of children who is not accompanying even if that parent is not being sponsored. So in fact it's most common use is for parents who have split by the 'custodial' parent so that children can accompany, particularly for family sponsorship where (of course) children from a previous marriage are coming. As well as other cases.

Even if confusing, that is the terminology the form from IRCC uses, 'non-accompanying parent.'

Note, if the OP has included spouse on the application as non-accompanying, you're right and the app would have to be modified.

 

[canuck78]

Hi all,

Myself and my soon to be ex wife have a verbal agreement on solving our disputes outside the court regarding divorce and children custody, where she agreed to give me full custody over our children and also sign the declaration form of non accompanying parent imm5604e.

as per the instructions on the imm5604 , she have to sign the form in front of a public notary who will witness the signature, then sign and stamp the form.

she tried many private notaries but all said since the document is issued by foreign country and will be used outside UAE, they cant sign on it but can provide a seperate paper testifying of her signature and their license as approved notary by ministry of justice in UAE

as for the public notary of the court of abu dhabi, they said they cant as well sign on that paper but she can make a no objection letter where she states that she have no objection for the children to immigrate to Canada, then she can translate it to English then attest it from the Canadian embassy in UAE .

I was thinking , to use a canadian public notary who can provide this service online by witnessing the signature then sign and stamp it, will that work

I would appreciate if someone can assist on how to get an alternative document to the imm5604e . ??

A verbal agreement about solving disputes out of court actually means nothing and either party can go back to court if you aren’t able to agree on something. There seems to be some discrepancies between your previous emails. Has your soon to be ex given up all her custody and visitation with no timeline of when that may end or have you only temporarily received full custody of your children.

 

[canuck78]

I think you may have misunderstood: imm5604 is used for the parent of children who is not accompanying even if that parent is not being sponsored. So in fact it's most common use is for parents who have split by the 'custodial' parent so that children can accompany, particularly for family sponsorship where (of course) children from a previous marriage are coming. As well as other cases.

Even if confusing, that is the terminology the form from IRCC uses, 'non-accompanying parent.'

Note, if the OP has included spouse on the application as non-accompanying, you're right and the app would have to be modified.

Deleted as you were replying. I hadn’t seen the title and thought they were referring to sponsorship application. Given that they were already separated the wife shouldn’t have been sponsored again even as non-accompanying but that is a separate issue.

 

[armoured]

Deleted as you were replying. I hadn’t seen the title and thought they were referring to sponsorship application. Given that they were already separated the wife shouldn’t have been sponsored again even as non-accompanying but that is a separate issue.

I admit I'm not clear what type of application this is. Fully agree the wife/ex-wife in question can't be sponsored.

But the 5604 does use the term 'non-accompanying parent.'

 

[Yorker13]

A verbal agreement about solving disputes out of court actually means nothing and either party can go back to court if you aren’t able to agree on something. There seems to be some discrepancies between your previous emails. Has your soon to be ex given up all her custody and visitation with no timeline of when that may end or have you only temporarily received full custody of your children.

you are right about the committment to verbal agreement, but i let me correct myself, we have an intial mutual agreement to make divorce settlement out of the court ,among the agreed points, is for her to give up the custody of our children to me ,and i requested as proof of her intentions to honor this agreement is to sign the non accompanying parent form imm5604 and she agreed to start the process, but she sent me an email on what happen with her with the public notary and asked me what to do next and hence, i made this thread as i am not sure how to get the public notaries in UAE follow the instructions on the imm5604e ,

any idea ?

will an online public notary from Canada do while the person who will sign is in UAE, will IRCC accept it ,( not sure if a canadian public notary will accept that situation even )

what about the other options in my thread?

 

[Yorker13]

I think you may have misunderstood: imm5604 is used for the parent of children who is not accompanying even if that parent is not being sponsored. So in fact it's most common use is for parents who have split by the 'custodial' parent so that children can accompany, particularly for family sponsorship where (of course) children from a previous marriage are coming. As well as other cases.

Even if confusing, that is the terminology the form from IRCC uses, 'non-accompanying parent.'

Note, if the OP has included spouse on the application as non-accompanying, you're right and the app would have to be modified.

previously i sponsored the wife and our 3 kids , and the family sponsorship application was approved and we reached to the stage of passport request, that was summer of 2020 before our family disupte starts and she refused to complete the process, and after waiting for her more than a year, i had to withdraw the application.
now, we are heading to divorce and we agreed that i become their custodian and guardian with visitation rights for her, and she agreed to sign the imm5406. but we ran into problem with the public notary witnessing the signature and signing and stamping it

 

[armoured]

previously i sponsored the wife and our 3 kids , and the family sponsorship application was approved and we reached to the stage of passport request, that was summer of 2020 before our family disupte starts and she refused to complete the process, and after waiting for her more than a year, i had to withdraw the application.
now, we are heading to divorce and we agreed that i become their custodian and guardian with visitation rights for her, and she agreed to sign the imm5406. but we ran into problem with the public notary witnessing the signature and signing and stamping it

So now you are doing a new sponsorship of just the children?

 

[Yorker13]

Personally I think this might work because it is a thing in some countries that notaries can only witness in certain circumstances. (Note, especially, in many countries notaries cannot witness signing of a foreign-language document, more below).

Unfortunately I do not know of a way to confirm this in advance but I think you should have a good chance that it will be accepted and not returned. I mean, after all, the only thing different is that they are not witnessing by signing in the box.



If the objection of the notary is that they cannot witness a 'foreign govt document', I have direct evidence that IRCC is actually not so picky about the specific form here (but does require the content to be basically the same). I had to deal with this due to the translation issue above. I ended up just having a translator do the translation and the notary witnessed the dual-language doc.

Afterwards though I found a link on IRCC's website that gave a dual language version - and note, it does not state that it is a government form, doesn't have the imm5604 title, etc.

See here:
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/pdf/kits/guides/e33075.pdf

Since this was official at the time, can't see why a version like this wouldn't work.

Good luck.

hmmm

thank you for your reply,

i understand your point, and i also hope IRCC are not stuborn on using their imm5604, and they will accept the no objection letter which have the same content, plus i will explain why the notary refused to sign on the imm5406,

but this step is lengthy, as it requires attestation from the canadian embassy, which in their turn only deal with couriers and correspondence will take like 20 days to complete provided they wont return it for corrections

by the way, will IRCC require the origian document, or a scanned color copy will be enough, as i am out of UAE

 

[Yorker13]

So now you are doing a new sponsorship of just the children?

yes, exactly.without her.
that is why i need the imm5604,

 

[armoured]

will an online public notary from Canada do while the person who will sign is in UAE, will IRCC accept it ,( not sure if a canadian public notary will accept that situation even )

what about the other options in my thread?

See my first post in this thread. I don't know anything about the online notary issue. I'd tend to doubt it but just don't know.

 

[armoured]

hmmm

thank you for your reply,

i understand your point, and i also hope IRCC are not stuborn on using their imm5604, and they will accept the no objection letter which have the same content, plus i will explain why the notary refused to sign on the imm5406,

but this step is lengthy, as it requires attestation from the canadian embassy, which in their turn only deal with couriers and correspondence will take like 20 days to complete provided they wont return it for corrections

by the way, will IRCC require the origian document, or a scanned color copy will be enough, as i am out of UAE

I would stick to language as close as possible to what is in the form. See the link i put.

Note, i suspect they still might ask for more clear legal decisions giving you custody. Sounds like you are working on it. I believe not uncommon for them to ask for this later in the process.

 

[Yorker13]

would appreciate if others can share their experience or opinion as well

 

[Yorker13]

hello...!!