PR obligation of 2 years not met

[AG3887]

Hi I got my PR in 2018. We were to move to Canada in 2020 but we had a baby and then Pandemic so were not able to travel. Now my husband has a job offer in Canada and want to move. However our PR expires in April 2023 before completing the 2 year obligatory stay. Will this be an issue when renewing our PR? What will be the procedure for renewal. We heard we will be given a Removal notice on arrival and will have to appeal and get a decision. What are our chances in such a situation. Please help. What should we do. Thanks

 

[Cassiano]

Hi I got my PR in 2018. We were to move to Canada in 2020 but we had a baby and then Pandemic so were not able to travel. Now my husband has a job offer in Canada and want to move. However our PR expires in April 2023 before completing the 2 year obligatory stay. Will this be an issue when renewing our PR? What will be the procedure for renewal. We heard we will be given a Removal notice on arrival and will have to appeal and get a decision. What are our chances in such a situation. Please help. What should we do. Thanks

within Canada, if you arrive soon, you should renew 2 years later,,, 2024, so, in between,, you can not exit Canada for 2 years

 

[AG3887]

within Canada, if you arrive soon, you should renew 2 years later,,, 2024, so, in between,, you can not exit Canada for 2 years

Will I not be served a removal notice and how should I respond to that and what are the chances that the decision is in our favor if we appeal this notice.

 

[steaky]

Will I not be served a removal notice and how should I respond to that and what are the chances that the decision is in our favor if we appeal this notice.

Why worry about the removal notice that might not happened? Btw, the child might not be able to travel with your husband to Canada to take the job offer. In this case, your husband might need to wait in Canada until he meet the RO in order to sponsor the child.

 

[AG3887]

Why worry about the removal notice that might not happened? Btw, the child might not be able to travel with your husband to Canada to take the job offer. In this case, your husband might need to wait in Canada until he meet the RO in order to sponsor the child.

I do not think my son will not be able to travel. We are sure he can on visa on arrival as he is an US citizen.

 

[lossada]

Will I not be served a removal notice and how should I respond to that and what are the chances that the decision is in our favor if we appeal this notice.

you got a job,,,, be inside Canada, not outside

 

[canuck78]

I do not think my son will not be able to travel. We are sure he can on visa on arrival as he is an US citizen.

The bigger issue is that you won’t be able to sponsor your child until you are compliant with your RO. In most provinces your child will not qualify for health coverage for around 3 years. You’ll need to take out emergency medical insurance and pay for routine care. Yes you can be reported for not meeting your RO at the border. Being pregnant is not a reason not to meet your RO unless you can prove that you had a high risk pregnancy and was on bed rest, were being hospitalized, etc. especially coming from the US. Yes you can be reported at the border for not meeting your RO. Impossible to say whether you will be reported. The earlier you arrive the better your chances of not being reported. You will have the chance to appeal if reported. You will need to remain in Canada for the next 2+ years without leaving or risk being reported.

 

[steaky]

I do not think my son will not be able to travel. We are sure he can on visa on arrival as he is an US citizen.

Since you were in the US for all those period, then the pandemic is not reason why you cannot travel. In fact, many people travel from the US to Canada throughout the pandemic.

 

[lossada]

Since you were in the US for all those period, then the pandemic is not reason why you cannot travel. In fact, many people travel from the US to Canada throughout the pandemic.

In Québec, daily,,,

 

[prasanth reddy]

Hi I got my PR in 2018. We were to move to Canada in 2020 but we had a baby and then Pandemic so were not able to travel. Now my husband has a job offer in Canada and want to move. However our PR expires in April 2023 before completing the 2 year obligatory stay. Will this be an issue when renewing our PR? What will be the procedure for renewal. We heard we will be given a Removal notice on arrival and will have to appeal and get a decision. What are our chances in such a situation. Please help. What should we do. Thanks

You can travel before PR Card expires even with few months left and after coming to Canada wait for 2 years and then apply for renewal. It wont be an issue in this case, as I have done the same way and now got the new PR Cards for myself and for my family members.

 

[canuck78]

You can travel before PR Card expires even with few months left and after coming to Canada wait for 2 years and then apply for renewal. It wont be an issue in this case, as I have done the same way and now got the new PR Cards for myself and for my family members.

That is far from guaranteed. People do get reported when they arrive right before the expiry date of their PR card. Just because you got away with it doesn’t mean everyone does.

 

[dpenabill]

What are our chances in such a situation.

Upfront, I agree that the chances are good that things go as @prasanth reddy describes, BUT with the caveat they might NOT go that well.

Overall, and especially if you get to Canada sooner rather than later, the odds are you will be allowed into Canada without a problem, and you will be OK as long as you stay and do not trigger a Residency Obligation compliance examination UNTIL you have stayed long enough to be in compliance, which for you means at least TWO continuous years.

NO need to apply for a new PR card as long as you are staying in Canada.

BUT as @canuck noted, what @prasanth reddy describes comes with a BIG CAUTION . . . there is no guarantee that is how it will go, meaning there can be problems. In particular

You can travel before PR Card expires even with few months left and after coming to Canada wait for 2 years and then apply for renewal. It wont be an issue in this case, as I have done the same way and now got the new PR Cards for myself and for my family members.

Not sure why so many claim that just because they got-away-with-it once (in this instance, failing to comply with the PR RO) someone else will get-away-with-it. That is not how law enforcement works, including enforcement of immigration law.

If you come SOON, it is fair to guess it is likely you will be treated similarly and be OK. But any time a PR who is not in RO compliance engages in a transaction with CBSA or IRCC that depends on the validity of their status, there is a real RISK questions about RO compliance will be asked and could lead to being "Reported," subject to a decision terminating their PR status unless they appeal and win the appeal.

The Longer Explanation:

Hi I got my PR in 2018. We were to move to Canada in 2020 but we had a baby and then Pandemic so were not able to travel. Now my husband has a job offer in Canada and want to move. However our PR expires in April 2023 before completing the 2 year obligatory stay. Will this be an issue when renewing our PR? What will be the procedure for renewal. We heard we will be given a Removal notice on arrival and will have to appeal and get a decision. What are our chances in such a situation. Please help. What should we do. Thanks

Starting with the last question first: "What should we do?"

No one here can reliably advise what someone should do. Best the forum can provide is some information and context that can help YOU make better decisions about what to do.

The forum can, nonetheless, offer some GENERAL approaches that can help the individual PR make decisions and navigate the system. For a PR in your situation there is a consensus about two general approaches of importance, both stated in one way or another by others above. I will state them this way:

-- the sooner the PR comes to Canada the better the odds they will not have a problem with enforcement of the PR Residency Obligation​

​

-- if the PR returns to Canada and is not subject to a "Report" upon arrival at the Port-of-Entry, the safest approach is to STAY long enough to be in RO compliance BEFORE doing anything that triggers a RO compliance examination; this means --​

-- -- not leaving Canada until in RO compliance (for most that means staying for two straight years)​

-- -- not applying for a new PR card until in RO compliance (likewise, for most that means waiting two years to apply for the new PR card)​

*** note, it is OK to NOT have a valid PR card while living in Canada​

-- -- not applying to sponsor a child's PR until in RO compliance (see further note about this below)​

The big contingency is whether or not you are subject to a "Report" upon arrival at the PoE. If you have been outside Canada three plus years since landing in 2018, which it appears you have, you are NOW in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. Which leads to :

"We heard we will be given a Removal notice on arrival and will have to appeal and get a decision. What are our chances in such a situation."​

Yes, there is a RISK that when you arrive at the PoE, returning to Canada, CBSA will question you about RO compliance, determine you have not complied with the RO, prepare an inadmissibility Report, and then a second officer issues a Removal Order. If that happens, if the border officials Report you and issue a Departure or Removal Order, you will still be allowed to enter Canada, and you can appeal that decision.

There are many discussions in this forum about a PR's "chances" in that situation, if you need to appeal, and discussions about what the factors are and how they will influence what happens. Regarding this, however, it is nearly impossible to quantify the "chances" or "odds" any more than ballpark generalities . . . like, for example, perhaps the biggest one: the sooner you get to Canada, the better your chances of keeping PR status.

While the calculation is not exactly the same, basically the same factors influence the RISKS, the PR's "chances," in regards to what happens at the PoE itself. That is, for example, the sooner you get here (meaning the less in breach of the RO you are when you arrive), the better chance you have that:

-- the border officials waive you into Canada without asking questions about RO compliance​

-- the border officials waive you into Canada after asking questions about RO compliance, even if asked some detailed questions in Secondary, and even if warned or admonished about RO compliance​

-- and even if questioned and that results in a "Report," they decide to NOT issue a Departure or Removal Order​

-- and, as already noted, if issued a Departure/Removal Order, you appeal and win​

That is, the sooner you get here, the better your chances it goes your way at every one of those steps above.

Relevant Factors Influencing How it Goes:

Once the PR is in breach of the RO (which you are by being outside Canada more than 1095 days since landing -- since it is NOT possible, now, to spend at least 730 days in Canada within the first five years), the PR is technically "inadmissible," subject to being "Reported" resulting in the loss of PR status and ordered to leave Canada.

Various factors can influence how this goes. I have harped on one, the biggest one: the sooner the PR gets to Canada to stay the better.

There are other factors of course. . . . to be continued . . .

 

[dpenabill]

Relevant Factors Influencing How it Goes:

Hi I got my PR in 2018. We were to move to Canada in 2020 but we had a baby and then Pandemic so were not able to travel. Now my husband has a job offer in Canada and want to move. However our PR expires in April 2023 before completing the 2 year obligatory stay. . . . What are our chances in such a situation.

As addressed in the previous post, the sooner you get here, the better your chances are that it will go OK, no problems. That is probably the biggest factor in how things are likely to go. Whether that is about questioning at the PoE, or how it would go in an appeal if that is necessary.

There are other factors of course. We generally refer to these as "H&C" considerations or factors, because they are things officials must consider before making a decision to terminate a PR's status DESPITE the PR's failure to comply with the RO. This is about consideration of humane and compassionate reasons for allowing a PR in breach to keep status despite the breach.

These factors can and clearly often will influence how things go at various stages of the process, from what will influence CBSA border officials to casually waive a PR through despite noticing the PR is most likely in breach of the RO, to what influences the second, reviewing officer (technically designated the Minister's Delegate) in deciding whether to issue a Removal Order, if the PR has been reported.

So, for example, when coming to Canada a PR in breach of the RO should be prepared to briefly explain why they remained abroad as long as they did, keeping it short, sticking to the essential facts. Whatever reasons the PR has, they will be considered, and they can have real influence in how things go.

Covid, for example, has been the most common factor which has likely been key in why many PRs in breach have been allowed to return to Canada without being Reported during the last year plus some. And it is not just about travel restrictions, since Covid has made relocating to another country significantly more difficult.

Typically, usually, to the extent asked (no need to go into it unless asked), the best a PR can do is to tell their story, explain where they were, why, including why they did not come to Canada sooner, how all those things factored into their plans to settle in Canada, and LET the Border Officials decide how much weight to give those factors. I disagree with binary characterizations like those by @steaky and @canuck78 . . . it is not whether a circumstance "is a reason," it is about how that circumstance fits into the full matrix of reasons and what weight it carries.

So, yeah, explaining "We were to move to Canada in 2020 but we had a baby and then Pandemic so were not able to travel" makes sense, helps to put your situation in context, and should help . . . noting, however, the bigger factor is still how long you have been outside Canada, and the sooner you get here the better.

Explaining Disagreement With Binary Approach to What is a H&C reason:

I disagree, rather strenuously actually, with the more or less binary characterizations of H&C factors. For example, @steaky says that for someone in the U.S., "the pandemic is not reason why you cannot travel." Totally misses the point. Not being able to "travel" is of course a big factor, and so travel restrictions themselves present a definite explanation for not traveling during the affected period. But difficulty traveling also matters, and more to the point in regards to how the pandemic has affected many PRs abroad, it is not so much about the difficulty of "travel" to Canada but about the difficulty actually moving to, relocating to Canada. And relocating during the pandemic has indeed been difficult and this is for sure a factor that not only must be considered but should carry some significantly positive weight.

Similarly the characterization by @canuck78 about "Being pregnant is not a reason not to meet your RO unless you can prove that you had a high risk pregnancy and was on bed rest, were being hospitalized, etc. especially coming from the US." NO. It is absolutely NOT ABOUT whether a circumstance like pregnancy is "a reason not to meet your RO." That is not how H&C factors work. If PRs explain that part of the reason why they did not move to Canada sooner was because of their pregnancy, first, that MUST be taken into consideration, and then how much positive weight it has (or how little positive weight it has) will vary . . . it is not a binary, yes or no calculation. The difficult pregnancy described by @canuck78 will likely carry a lot more positive weight, sure, but still ONLY in CONTEXT, in consideration of all the other relevant factors -- warranting a reminder, that how much in breach of the RO the PR is will usually be the biggest factor.

Again, typically, usually, to the extent asked (no need to go into it unless asked), the best a PR can do is to tell their story, explain where they were, why, including why they did not come to Canada sooner, how all those things factored into their plans to settle in Canada, and LET the Border Officials decide how much weight to give those factors.


Finally --

However our PR expires in April 2023 before completing the 2 year obligatory stay. Will this be an issue when renewing our PR? What will be the procedure for renewal. ​

I left this to last because it is not something you will be dealing with anytime soon, and it depends first on getting into Canada without being "Reported."

Beyond that, if you are allowed into Canada and NOT "Reported," YOU will be in control of this. The key is to STAY until you have been here two years, and if you do that, the RO breach will be cured. It is OK to live in Canada without a valid PR card.

This includes not making any application to IRCC which depends on the validity of your PR status, which typically triggers some level of RO compliance examination. That is, best to WAIT two years before applying for a new PR card, or before applying to sponsor a child.

More than a few push it some in regards to the latter, making the sponsorship application sooner, not waiting the full two years. The safest approach is to wait the two years. But similar to reports about leniency at the PoE, there are numerous anecdotal reports suggesting this is another area where many, so to say, get-away-with-it. Again, this is one of those areas in which the decision making is all yours; it is up to you, your situation, your needs, your child's needs, you priorities, and your judgment. Still, no doubt that it is safest to wait.

Stay and Wait two years, and that fixes things. Again, it is OK to not have a valid PR card as long as you are STAYING in Canada. There can be some wrinkles, like getting health care in a different province after a move from one to the another, but those do not affect the PR's immigration status.

 

[prasanth reddy]

That is far from guaranteed. People do get reported when they arrive right before the expiry date of their PR card. Just because you got away with it doesn’t mean everyone does.

Dont teach or preach me, I know what I said and I said with my conscious. You are allowed to enter before the expiry date of PR Card and there is no law to block you before expiry date. Regarding PR Card renewal, only last 5 years matters. I bet people can enter before PR Card expiry without being reported and I can challenge on this.

 

[prasanth reddy]

Dont teach or preach me, I know what I said and I said with my conscious. You are allowed to enter before the expiry date of PR Card and there is no law to block you before expiry date. Regarding PR Card renewal, only last 5 years matters. I bet people can enter before PR Card expiry without being reported and I can challenge on this.

There is no such a thing that you get away with law. For your information, Law will be effective for all days and if someone gets away without being noticed then there is no such law to be enforced. They know what they are doing and you cannot get away without simply being noticed.