PR Card Renewal H&C Cases

[HMO63]

Hello all, so here is my case for renewal of my PR card and appreciate your help.

- My card expires in May 23 2024, and I applied for renewal in Oct. 27, 3023 submitting and H&C case (basically hundreds of documents, letters etc.). Despite not fulfilling my physical presence requirement fully, I believe I have a strong case based on my circumstances particularly my mom's health (besides corona, PhD in Canada, job applications, reference letters etc.).
- I had to leave Canada to Germany as I am highly specialized in medical device field and could not land in a relevant job in Canada yet. I got out for a temp job right before Corona and things worked out afterwards...
- I am booking a trip to Canada now to get in prior to my card expiry (May 20th) but I can not stay longer than 2 weeks (at the moment). The reason being that I might get lucky and hear back within this two weeks. My lawyer at the time said the H&C cases for PR Renewal is about 9 months at the time, and the website says 24 months!
- I would like to go back to Canada, do not want to lose my PR, and would continue to look into job market.

Here are my questions:
- What if I get approval after my card being expired and I am outside Canada, when asked to pick up my card and asking for PRTD, could this work out or they would use not being in Canada against me?
- What are my chances for the scenario described above with the short travel?
- Does it make sense to apply for an urgent, as my mom's health is deteoriating. and providing evidence for travel plans around 3.5 weeks later from now.
- Any particular recommendation?

Thank you!

 

[scylla]

Hello all, so here is my case for renewal of my PR card and appreciate your help.

- My card expires in May 23 2024, and I applied for renewal in Oct. 27, 3023 submitting and H&C case (basically hundreds of documents, letters etc.). Despite not fulfilling my physical presence requirement fully, I believe I have a strong case based on my circumstances particularly my mom's health (besides corona, PhD in Canada, job applications, reference letters etc.).
- I had to leave Canada to Germany as I am highly specialized in medical device field and could not land in a relevant job in Canada yet. I got out for a temp job right before Corona and things worked out afterwards...
- I am booking a trip to Canada now to get in prior to my card expiry (May 20th) but I can not stay longer than 2 weeks (at the moment). The reason being that I might get lucky and hear back within this two weeks. My lawyer at the time said the H&C cases for PR Renewal is about 9 months at the time, and the website says 24 months!
- I would like to go back to Canada, do not want to lose my PR, and would continue to look into job market.

Here are my questions:
- What if I get approval after my card being expired and I am outside Canada, when asked to pick up my card and asking for PRTD, could this work out or they would use not being in Canada against me?
- What are my chances for the scenario described above with the short travel?
- Does it make sense to apply for an urgent, as my mom's health is deteoriating. and providing evidence for travel plans around 3.5 weeks later from now.
- Any particular recommendation?

Thank you!

- You would need a PRTD to return to Canada or alternatively fly to the US and re-enter Canada through a land border. Yes, being outside of Canada complicates your situation. If applying under H&C, you generally want to remain in Canada after submitting the application.
- No one here can give you your chances. We don't know your full profile such as how many days in Canada you actually have or have access to your application. Employment reasons generally aren't accepted under H&C so hopefully you focused your application on your mother's health situation.
- No, it does not make sense to apply for urgent processing. First of all, you already have an application in progress. You would need to withdraw your first application if you want to submit a second one. Secondly, urgent processing generally only works if you meet the residency requirement.

 

[scylla]

Hello all, so here is my case for renewal of my PR card and appreciate your help.

- My card expires in May 23 2024, and I applied for renewal in Oct. 27, 3023 submitting and H&C case (basically hundreds of documents, letters etc.). Despite not fulfilling my physical presence requirement fully, I believe I have a strong case based on my circumstances particularly my mom's health (besides corona, PhD in Canada, job applications, reference letters etc.).
- I had to leave Canada to Germany as I am highly specialized in medical device field and could not land in a relevant job in Canada yet. I got out for a temp job right before Corona and things worked out afterwards...
- I am booking a trip to Canada now to get in prior to my card expiry (May 20th) but I can not stay longer than 2 weeks (at the moment). The reason being that I might get lucky and hear back within this two weeks. My lawyer at the time said the H&C cases for PR Renewal is about 9 months at the time, and the website says 24 months!
- I would like to go back to Canada, do not want to lose my PR, and would continue to look into job market.

Here are my questions:
- What if I get approval after my card being expired and I am outside Canada, when asked to pick up my card and asking for PRTD, could this work out or they would use not being in Canada against me?
- What are my chances for the scenario described above with the short travel?
- Does it make sense to apply for an urgent, as my mom's health is deteoriating. and providing evidence for travel plans around 3.5 weeks later from now.
- Any particular recommendation?

Thank you!

Also, the processing times on the IRCC web site are for H&C applications. Not H&C PR card renewal.

 

[HMO63]

- You would need a PRTD to return to Canada or alternatively fly to the US and re-enter Canada through a land border. Yes, being outside of Canada complicates your situation. If applying under H&C, you generally want to remain in Canada after submitting the application.
- No one here can give you your chances. We don't know your full profile such as how many days in Canada you actually have or have access to your application. Employment reasons generally aren't accepted under H&C so hopefully you focused your application on your mother's health situation.
- No, it does not make sense to apply for urgent processing. First of all, you already have an application in progress. You would need to withdraw your first application if you want to submit a second one. Secondly, urgent processing generally only works if you meet the residency requirement.

Thanks for your reply!
For the urgent PR card renewal processing you don’t have to withdraw your application, you can still apply while you have an application in process. There’s a web form for submitting additional info regarding your case, for instance my mom’s health issue and if it’s happening beyond three weeks they’d consider it. But i understand that this is for none complicated cases perhaps. My case has been more than 7 months now.
so would it make sense to provide additional information on my upcoming travel due to my mom’s health since this would complicate my situation? there should be an option.

 

[HMO63]

Also, the processing times on the IRCC web site are for H&C applications. Not H&C PR card renewal.

True, so there’s no digital public transparency in regards with renewal applications?

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your reply!
For the urgent PR card renewal processing you don’t have to withdraw your application, you can still apply while you have an application in process. There’s a web form for submitting additional info regarding your case, for instance my mom’s health issue and if it’s happening beyond three weeks they’d consider it. But i understand that this is for none complicated cases perhaps. My case has been more than 7 months now.
so would it make sense to provide additional information on my upcoming travel due to my mom’s health since this would complicate my situation? there should be an option.

I misunderstood. I thought you were asking about a new application. I don't think IRCC will consider your request for urgent processing given you have also requested H&C. You can certainly try.

 

[scylla]

True, so there’s no digital public transparency in regards with renewal applications?

Yes, there is for standard applications. Your application is non-standard so normal processing times do not apply.

 

[dpenabill]

My lawyer at the time said the H&C cases for PR Renewal is about 9 months at the time, and the website says 24 months!

A qualified Canadian immigration lawyer is a far, far better source of information than this forum. Moreover, a lawyer can offer personal advice, that is advice particular to you and your situation rather than general suggestions. Any personal advice offered here should be approached with much skepticism.

I can and will offer some observations BUT mostly you should be relying on YOUR LAWYER.

I cannot say how this will go. Forecasting the odds in general terms is tricky enough, near impossible, let alone trying to predict how it will go in a particular case.

That said, even if you were remaining IN Canada this is a tricky case. A lawyer's assistance probably helps. But these tend to be tough cases. Meanwhile, given the fact that you have been living outside Canada while the H&C application is pending, my sense is quite a bit more skeptical than what you have seen in response so far.

In particular, upfront it should be said that this appears to be a long shot at best. While no one here can quantify the odds at all precisely, not remaining IN Canada significantly increases the risk of a negative outcome. I am not qualified to offer personal advice, and again will defer to your lawyer for that, but I can say that in general PRs relying on H&C relief to keep their PR status are usually better off waiting until they are actually IN Canada to stay, or at least preparing to come to Canada to stay, BEFORE making the H&C case.

After all, among key factors in the H&C assessment the reasons for not returning to Canada sooner loom large and of course that factor cannot be adequately assessed until it is determined how soon the PR has (or is) actually returning to live in Canada. This is related to what is usually the biggest factor, which is the extent of the breach, the extent of the stay outside Canada; here too, this cannot be fully evaluated unless and until the PR is either IN Canada to stay or coming to Canada to stay.

Another important factor is the extent to which not having PR status will impose a hardship on the PR, and of course continuing to remain outside Canada tends to show there is little hardship due to not being able to be in Canada.

Additionally, even though it is not an articulated element in the H&C analysis, it is clear that whether or not the PR *deserves* to keep PR status can have a significant influence on how IRCC officers, and then the IAD if an appeal is needed, weigh the evidence, and continuing to live outside Canada will typically push the needle in a negative direction. The grant of PR status is not to facilitate coming to Canada to live in the future, but is expressly for the purpose of facilitating coming to Canada to stay PERMANENTLY.

Leading to . . .

@dpenabill May I ask what would happen if your asked to pick up your renewed PR card from a local office (H&C renewal case) and you have an expired PR card outside country? Can you reschedule and meanwhile get a PRTD as you had an approved case?

Responding here because this is the thread where your situation is the subject.

In-person PR card pick-up is discussed at some length in multiple topics and I will not try to reiterate all that here.

But yes, if a PR misses a scheduled pick-up IRCC will allow for pick-up at another time. How this works seems to vary some, but generally PRs are given up to six months to come to a local office to pick up a new PR card . . . which can be for a full five year card or in some cases a one-year PR card.

If you are outside Canada without a valid PR card you would need to EITHER obtain a PR TD to travel to Canada OR if you have status to travel in the U.S., you could return to Canada via the U.S., taking land transportation to the Canadian border. The latter, if available, would avoid having to go through the process of applying for a PR TD.

BE AWARE that your status is likely flagged in GCMS. This can and quite likely will affect the level of scrutiny involved in either processing a PR TD application or in screening you upon your arrival at a Port-of-Entry.

No, a PR TD will NOT be automatically issued just because a PR card application has been approved. Talk to your lawyer about the extent to which you might need to make the H&C case in a PR TD application. Be aware that a PR TD application can be denied even if a new PR card has been issued. Be aware that being outside Canada without a valid PR card means it is PRESUMED the PR does NOT have valid PR status.

MOSTLY . . . talk to your lawyer.

Hello all, so here is my case for renewal of my PR card and appreciate your help.

- My card expires in May 23 2024, and I applied for renewal in Oct. 27, 3023 submitting and H&C case (basically hundreds of documents, letters etc.). Despite not fulfilling my physical presence requirement fully, I believe I have a strong case based on my circumstances particularly my mom's health (besides corona, PhD in Canada, job applications, reference letters etc.).
- I had to leave Canada to Germany as I am highly specialized in medical device field and could not land in a relevant job in Canada yet. I got out for a temp job right before Corona and things worked out afterwards...
- I am booking a trip to Canada now to get in prior to my card expiry (May 20th) but I can not stay longer than 2 weeks (at the moment). The reason being that I might get lucky and hear back within this two weeks. My lawyer at the time said the H&C cases for PR Renewal is about 9 months at the time, and the website says 24 months!
- I would like to go back to Canada, do not want to lose my PR, and would continue to look into job market.

Here are my questions:
- What if I get approval after my card being expired and I am outside Canada, when asked to pick up my card and asking for PRTD, could this work out or they would use not being in Canada against me?
- What are my chances for the scenario described above with the short travel?
- Does it make sense to apply for an urgent, as my mom's health is deteoriating. and providing evidence for travel plans around 3.5 weeks later from now.
- Any particular recommendation?

Thank you!

 

[HMO63]

A qualified Canadian immigration lawyer is a far, far better source of information than this forum. Moreover, a lawyer can offer personal advice, that is advice particular to you and your situation rather than general suggestions. Any personal advice offered here should be approached with much skepticism.

I can and will offer some observations BUT mostly you should be relying on YOUR LAWYER.

I cannot say how this will go. Forecasting the odds in general terms is tricky enough, near impossible, let alone trying to predict how it will go in a particular case.

That said, even if you were remaining IN Canada this is a tricky case. A lawyer's assistance probably helps. But these tend to be tough cases. Meanwhile, given the fact that you have been living outside Canada while the H&C application is pending, my sense is quite a bit more skeptical than what you have seen in response so far.

In particular, upfront it should be said that this appears to be a long shot at best. While no one here can quantify the odds at all precisely, not remaining IN Canada significantly increases the risk of a negative outcome. I am not qualified to offer personal advice, and again will defer to your lawyer for that, but I can say that in general PRs relying on H&C relief to keep their PR status are usually better off waiting until they are actually IN Canada to stay, or at least preparing to come to Canada to stay, BEFORE making the H&C case.

After all, among key factors in the H&C assessment the reasons for not returning to Canada sooner loom large and of course that factor cannot be adequately assessed until it is determined how soon the PR has (or is) actually returning to live in Canada. This is related to what is usually the biggest factor, which is the extent of the breach, the extent of the stay outside Canada; here too, this cannot be fully evaluated unless and until the PR is either IN Canada to stay or coming to Canada to stay.

Another important factor is the extent to which not having PR status will impose a hardship on the PR, and of course continuing to remain outside Canada tends to show there is little hardship due to not being able to be in Canada.

Additionally, even though it is not an articulated element in the H&C analysis, it is clear that whether or not the PR *deserves* to keep PR status can have a significant influence on how IRCC officers, and then the IAD if an appeal is needed, weigh the evidence, and continuing to live outside Canada will typically push the needle in a negative direction. The grant of PR status is not to facilitate coming to Canada to live in the future, but is expressly for the purpose of facilitating coming to Canada to stay PERMANENTLY.

Leading to . . .


Responding here because this is the thread where your situation is the subject.

In-person PR card pick-up is discussed at some length in multiple topics and I will not try to reiterate all that here.

But yes, if a PR misses a scheduled pick-up IRCC will allow for pick-up at another time. How this works seems to vary some, but generally PRs are given up to six months to come to a local office to pick up a new PR card . . . which can be for a full five year card or in some cases a one-year PR card.

If you are outside Canada without a valid PR card you would need to EITHER obtain a PR TD to travel to Canada OR if you have status to travel in the U.S., you could return to Canada via the U.S., taking land transportation to the Canadian border. The latter, if available, would avoid having to go through the process of applying for a PR TD.

BE AWARE that your status is likely flagged in GCMS. This can and quite likely will affect the level of scrutiny involved in either processing a PR TD application or in screening you upon your arrival at a Port-of-Entry.

No, a PR TD will NOT be automatically issued just because a PR card application has been approved. Talk to your lawyer about the extent to which you might need to make the H&C case in a PR TD application. Be aware that a PR TD application can be denied even if a new PR card has been issued. Be aware that being outside Canada without a valid PR card means it is PRESUMED the PR does NOT have valid PR status.

MOSTLY . . . talk to your lawyer.

Hi, @dpenabill I very much appreciate your reply. Everything you said is aligned with what my lawyer said to me as well. As of now, I decided to return to Canada before my card expires and see how long I can stay based on my employer's agreement. The pressing persona issue for me is my mom's health that has recently deteoriated and I might get her doctor's note before heading back to visit here and add it to my case. At this point, I will try to be locally available. Looking at the new portal for PR card applications, that shows ""submitted" for 7 months I am not much confident.. I enquired through web form for an update and an application number. Additionally requested a ATIP to see if there has been any notes. If I have to leave I will leave and if not work out in few months, I will apply for a new PR. Thanks for your reply again.

 

[armoured]

I enquired through web form for an update and an application number. Additionally requested a ATIP to see if there has been any notes. If I have to leave I will leave and if not work out in few months, I will apply for a new PR. Thanks for your reply again.

It's up to you of course. You said in first post that you 'got out just before corona' (or something like that), implying you've been out of Canada >5 years, or close to it. How many days have you actually been in Canada since you became a PR (in 2019?).

I'd be skeptical of any chance of getting a PRTD after having already applied for PR renewal on H&C basis, and then just leaving.

Bluntly, with a skeptical eye, it doesn't seem that there is a solidly founded H&C basis. You left because you found better work elsewhere. Perhaps your time abroad was lengthened due to corona, and you're not specific about your mother's health, so I'm only reading between the lines that this is recent. (I'm not asking you to prove it to me, just stating how it sounds on the superficial level of info I have).

So I contrast: if you return to Canada before your card expires, there is a decent chance that IRCC will just not bother with your case IF you simply remain in Canada.

Leave, and particularly without a valid PR card, your chances of keeping PR status would seem likely to worsen dramatically. (Possible there may be junctures at which you might be able to chance short visits with lower risks, but let's leave that for now).

Want to keep your PR status in order to reside in Canada? Return, and stay, ideally at least as long as it takes to be compliant with the residency obligation. This may mean missing things outside Canada.

Same caveats as above, and only my impression. Only commenting as to me it seems to me excessive optimism - I could be wrong.

 

[HMO63]

It's up to you of course. You said in first post that you 'got out just before corona' (or something like that), implying you've been out of Canada >5 years, or close to it. How many days have you actually been in Canada since you became a PR (in 2019?).

I'd be skeptical of any chance of getting a PRTD after having already applied for PR renewal on H&C basis, and then just leaving.

Bluntly, with a skeptical eye, it doesn't seem that there is a solidly founded H&C basis. You left because you found better work elsewhere. Perhaps your time abroad was lengthened due to corona, and you're not specific about your mother's health, so I'm only reading between the lines that this is recent. (I'm not asking you to prove it to me, just stating how it sounds on the superficial level of info I have).

So I contrast: if you return to Canada before your card expires, there is a decent chance that IRCC will just not bother with your case IF you simply remain in Canada.

Leave, and particularly without a valid PR card, your chances of keeping PR status would seem likely to worsen dramatically. (Possible there may be junctures at which you might be able to chance short visits with lower risks, but let's leave that for now).

Want to keep your PR status in order to reside in Canada? Return, and stay, ideally at least as long as it takes to be compliant with the residency obligation. This may mean missing things outside Canada.

Same caveats as above, and only my impression. Only commenting as to me it seems to me excessive optimism - I could be wrong.

I have been 250+ days in Canada, I guess it’s ok for you to be skeptical but I have tired to come back to Canada despite so many challenges. My mom’s health case is very critical and of course I don’t want to discuss it here but the whole family has been suffering for a few years now and me being close really helped. And no it was not a simple job opportunity case … Only the medical reason and coordinations around it - that I didn’t fully disclose here- would be enough for a compassionate case. And yes I’d better stay... I appreciate your inputs.

 

[armoured]

I have been 250+ days in Canada, I guess it’s ok for you to be skeptical but I have tired to come back to Canada despite so many challenges. My mom’s health case is very critical and of course I don’t want to discuss it here but the whole family has been suffering for a few years now and me being close really helped. And no it was not a simple job opportunity case … Only the medical reason and coordinations around it - that I didn’t fully disclose here- would be enough for a compassionate case. And yes I’d better stay... I appreciate your inputs.

My sympathies for your mother's health situation. Again, I was looking at it skeptically with little information.

I'm sure there are other extenuating circumstances as well - but IRCC may believe that any health situation that continues for 4+ years is no longer 'urgent', or critical, but chronic. And that therefore, residing abroad to deal with it is a choice of where to reside and what to prioritize.

There are value judgments inherent in this which I am NOT trying to make, nor criticize you for. Just putting one (admittedly harsh) potential approach they could take out there. Your choice of what to prioritize is your affair.

Again, I do not actually know how IRCC will approach, and I think anyone who claims to know is likely mistaken. I think IRCC will give some weight, for example, to covid-related travel issues, but we simply do not know how much weight. Now that those travel restrictions are mostly long gone, probably not much, but still non-zero.