AOR in April 2017 - Let's Connect Here!

[gurik]

I think this isnt correct.. @legalfalcon please help clarify.

Okay, as i said i might be wrong here, we need some expert to further clarify.

 

[gurik]

I also have information that education and work experience can be completely unrelated! Or else half of the people here would be ineligible for Canada immi!

Of course you need to have a degree for most of these positions we claim points in work experince, but it can be unrelated to that job. Or not?

Astral, As per your understanding you are saying that if an applicant's work and education are completely unrelated, he/she will get CRS points for both?
What I mean is that I understand that an individual with Masters in Economics can practice many jobs like teaching, managing, finance etc. but a Master's in History cannot, so will a Master's in history working as finance manger get points for both work and education?

 

[legalfalcon]

@gurik said: ↑
As per my knowledge they should be in some alignment, meaning for example someone has done B.Sc Food Science and is working as a manger at some clothing store, he cannot then claim points for his B.Sc. In that way, I meant that the points you claim for education should be in alignment with your work, otherwise you will only be eligible for points in either one of them not both.

P.S- I do not claim to be a expert, just someone who has researched, I could be wrong. i ask other members also to express their views in this regard, so that no misleading information is passed on. It is most important that correct information is spread.

I think this isnt correct.. @legalfalcon please help clarify.

The statement by @gurik is not accurate.


IRCC in the minimum work experience requirement states (see link below):

The applicant must have accumulated at least one year of continuous full-time (or the equivalent in part-time) paid work experience in the occupation identified in their application for permanent residence as their primary occupation. In calculating this period of work experience, the occupation must be listed in skill type 0 (Managerial occupations), skill level A (Professional occupations) or skill level B (Technical occupations and skilled trades) of the National Occupational Classification (NOC) 2011 [R75(2)(a)].

The applicant’s skilled work experience must also​

• have occurred within the ten years preceding the date of their application for permanent residence; and
• not be in an occupation that has been designated as a restricted occupation.

Note: At the time of publication, no occupations were designated as restricted.

In addition, during that period of employment, the applicant must have

• performed the actions described in the lead statement for the occupation as set out in the occupational description of the NOC [R75(2)(b)]; and
• performed a substantial number of the main duties, including all of the essential duties, of the occupation as set out in the occupational description of the NOC [R75(2)(c)].

Note: The applicant does not need to demonstrate that they meet the “employment requirements” (EDUCATION) listed in the NOC occupational description.
​

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/minimum.asp

The last statement in bold and red clearly states that there is no correlation between the employment requirements, which is education and other requirements with the job duties. To simply put, an applicant will get points for education as per the ECA and will get points for the work experience as per what he claims and his job duties substantially meeting those listed in the NOC the applicant selected.


Further, IRCC when evaluating the educational requirement, states the following (available on the link mentioned above):

Applicants must submit either their completed Canadian educational credential or their completed foreign educational credential and the equivalency assessment (Educational Credential Assessment [ECA] report) issued by a designated assessment organization or institution with their application for permanent residence. The equivalency assessment must be less than five years old on the date on which their application is made [R75(2)(e)].

Note: The applicant must submit at least a completed Canadian secondary educational credential or its equivalent in order to meet the minimum education requirement.

Equivalency assessments (ECA reports) will be used as conclusive evidence that the applicant’s completed foreign diplomas, certificates or credentials are equivalent to completed Canadian educational credentials for the purposes of paragraph R75(2)(e), subsection R75(2.1) and section R78. The ECA report will also include an assessment by the organization or institution of the authenticity of the completed foreign diploma, certificate or credential.

If a professional body has been designated for the primary occupation specified in the application, the applicant must submit a completed foreign diploma, certificate or credential relevant to that occupation and the equivalency assessment (ECA report) issued by the designated professional body establishing that the completed foreign diploma, certificate or credential is equivalent to the completed Canadian educational credential required to practise that occupation in at least one of the provinces in which the equivalency assessments issued by this professional body are recognized.​

The education and work experience requirement are mutually exclusive. This may sound counterintuitive, but with the following examples you will see why:

1. An applicant graduated with a masters degree in chemistry, but after taking a few courses in graphic designing, or self studying is not into designing illustrations for chemistry books. If you see the educational requirements for graphic designers, it is

• A university degree in visual arts with specialization in graphic design, commercial art, graphic communications or cartooning
• or
• Completion of a college diploma program in graphic arts is required.
• Experience or training in multimedia design at a post-secondary, college or technical institution may be required.
• In addition to the arts, training in biology, engineering, architecture or a scientific field is usually required for medical, technical and scientific illustrators.
• Creative ability and artistic talent, as demonstrated by a portfolio of work, are required for graphic designers and illustrators.

​

2. An applicant who has a degree in law is a political advisor to a non profit. The employment requirements (4164) are:

• A bachelor's degree or college diploma in a social science or related discipline, or in business administration is usually required.
• A master's degree in a social science or related discipline or in business administration may be required.
• Home economists require a bachelor's degree in home economics, home economics education, human ecology, nutrition and food sciences or family and consumer studies.
• Registration is available, but voluntary, for home economists but the use of the designation "Professional Home Economist" is regulated in New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta, and "Registered Professional Home Economist" in British Columbia.
• Registration with the Immigration Consultants of Canada Regulatory Council is required for Regulated Canadian immigration consultants.

​

I can give more examples, but I guess I have answered the question and the issue at hand.

P.S. I had to edit this post a few time to incorporate all the required info, I hope it clarifies everything now. ~ @astralsource & @gurik

 

[vishalg]

In Australia third parties like VETASSESS etc. verify your employment relevance and authenticity, Canada makes this decision on its own without third party involvement. But as per my understanding there needs to be some correlation.

You mentioned it above. In Australia, they assess occupation in conjunction with education. In Canada, there is no occupational assessment. I am an engineer ( 2 year work experience in Telecom) then MBA Finance ( working in sales for last 9 years). My credentials would have been rejected if they were assessed together.
Your future employer might want to hire someone who has experience as per his/her education but not for PR.
Other members can provide their opinion.

 

[DEEPCUR]

Guys more people have cleared medical in last two days whose application got submitted before 60 days.

 

[astralsource]

Guys more people have cleared medical in last two days whose application got submitted before 60 days.

Speeding up

 

[gurik]

The statement by @gurik is not accurate.


IRCC in the minimum work experience requirement states (see link below):

The applicant must have accumulated at least one year of continuous full-time (or the equivalent in part-time) paid work experience in the occupation identified in their application for permanent residence as their primary occupation. In calculating this period of work experience, the occupation must be listed in skill type 0 (Managerial occupations), skill level A (Professional occupations) or skill level B (Technical occupations and skilled trades) of the National Occupational Classification (NOC) 2011 [R75(2)(a)].

The applicant’s skilled work experience must also​

• have occurred within the ten years preceding the date of their application for permanent residence; and
• not be in an occupation that has been designated as a restricted occupation.

Note: At the time of publication, no occupations were designated as restricted.

In addition, during that period of employment, the applicant must have

• performed the actions described in the lead statement for the occupation as set out in the occupational description of the NOC [R75(2)(b)]; and
• performed a substantial number of the main duties, including all of the essential duties, of the occupation as set out in the occupational description of the NOC [R75(2)(c)].

Note: The applicant does not need to demonstrate that they meet the “employment requirements” (EDUCATION) listed in the NOC occupational description.
​

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/econ/fsw/minimum.asp

The last statement in bold and red clearly states that there is no correlation between the employment requirements, which is education and other requirements with the job duties. To simply put, an applicant will get points for education as per the ECA and will get points for the work experience as per what he claims and his job duties substantially meeting those listed in the NOC the applicant selected. The education and work experience requirement are mutually exclusive. This may sound counterintuitive, but with the following examples you will see why:

1. An applicant graduated with a masters degree in chemistry, but after taking a few courses in graphic designing, or self studying is not into designing illustrations for chemistry books. If you see the educational requirements for graphic designers, it is

• A university degree in visual arts with specialization in graphic design, commercial art, graphic communications or cartooning
• or
• Completion of a college diploma program in graphic arts is required.
• Experience or training in multimedia design at a post-secondary, college or technical institution may be required.
• In addition to the arts, training in biology, engineering, architecture or a scientific field is usually required for medical, technical and scientific illustrators.
• Creative ability and artistic talent, as demonstrated by a portfolio of work, are required for graphic designers and illustrators.

​

2. An applicant who has a degree in law is a political advisor to a non profit. The employment requirements (4164) are:

• A bachelor's degree or college diploma in a social science or related discipline, or in business administration is usually required.
• A master's degree in a social science or related discipline or in business administration may be required.
• Home economists require a bachelor's degree in home economics, home economics education, human ecology, nutrition and food sciences or family and consumer studies.
• Registration is available, but voluntary, for home economists but the use of the designation "Professional Home Economist" is regulated in New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta, and "Registered Professional Home Economist" in British Columbia.
• Registration with the Immigration Consultants of Canada Regulatory Council is required for Regulated Canadian immigration consultants.

​

I can give more examples, but I guess I have answered the question and the issue at hand.

You are right it is counter intuitive, the system is really strange. I thought though it was not mandatory, but while processing this must weigh in that your education and experience are somehow related, like the examples you stated above, there is definitely some relation,
The examples you stated above have some relation to the education, a lawyer is okay to practice as a political advisor and similarly for the graphic designer was designing "chemistry books".
But i mean how can they give Visa to an engineer working as a say political advisor. They are rejecting applications for far less substantial and absurd reasons., but they accept the strangest concept of an unqualified person as being skilful in some NOC.
Anyway who are we to question their authority..... I will edit my post, so that no inaccurate information is passed.
Thank you so much for clarifying.

 

[legalfalcon]

You are right it is counter intuitive, the system is really strange. I thought though it was not mandatory, but while processing this must weigh in that your education and experience are somehow related, like the examples you stated above, there is definitely some relation,
The examples you stated above have some relation to the education, a lawyer is okay to practice as a political advisor and similarly for the graphic designer was designing "chemistry books".
But i mean how can they give Visa to an engineer working as a say political advisor. They are rejecting applications for far less substantial and absurd reasons., but they accept the strangest concept of an unqualified person as being skilful in some NOC.
Anyway who are we to question their authority..... I will edit my post, so that no inaccurate information is passed. thank you for clarifying.

For most applicants the educational and the work experience will intersect. However, in order to ensure that an applicant is working in the field he is qualified in, needs more institutional resources, and more subjectivity in the system. The law, which is the IRPA, has regulations, as you see them quoted in my post above. The law is the overarching umbrella and the rules grant the power to the administrative agent to work and set guidelines. Any rule that is too broad, or too subjective will be struck down. This is why the the education and work experience have been kept mutually exclusive.

However, it can be argues that IRCC can change the rules, which is true, but until they do so, this is the law and no matter how counter intuitive it may sound. Law is not meant to be straight in the first place. Any law which has over 3 words in it has room for interpretation, and that is why lawyers spend 3 year and a life time "PRACTICING" law.

 

[Wolverine17]

Guys more people have cleared medical in last two days whose application got submitted before 60 days.

Aor 18 april but nothing yet

 

[gurik]

For most applicants the educational and the work experience will intersect. However, in order to ensure that an applicant is working in the field he is qualified in, needs more institutional resources, and more subjectivity in the system. The law, which is the IRPA, has regulations, as you see them quoted in my post above. The law is the overarching umbrella and the rules grant the power to the administrative agent to work and set guidelines. Any rule that is too broad, or too subjective will be struck down. This is why the the education and work experience have been kept mutually exclusive.

However, it can be argues that IRCC can change the rules, which is true, but until they do so, this is the law and no matter how counter intuitive it may sound. Law is not meant to be straight in the first place. Any law which has over 3 words in it has room for interpretation, and that is why lawyers spend 3 year and a life time "PRACTICING" law.

You are absolutely right. In that sense it is the right way to go. My father is a lawyer and he still needs to get to books after 30-35 years of practicing law. As there are many judgements using all sorts of laws to validate different points. Nothing is clear cut. This applies to our entire system also.
I thank you again for your clarification. Its people like you making this forum trust worthy, Wish you all the best.

 

[kaimainz]

Yes, I am aware of that. This is what I meant with some kind of alignment, that you should have basic qualification related to the NOC you are applying for. Under every NOC it is mentioned that one should have some degree or diploma in that category to be eligible to claim pints for that NOC.
It cannot be any degree or diploma, it has to be discipline related as per my understanding.
When you go to the "find your NOC" link, it is clearly mentioned under "Employment Requirements" that you need qualifications in that discipline to be eligible for that NOC.
For example someone's NOC is 2134 , there in it is clearly mentioned that one should have so and so qualifications to be applying under that NOC.
Link-http://noc.esdc.gc.ca/English/noc/QuickSearch.aspx?val=2&val1=2134&ver=11&_ga=2.90943258.1641929693.1497691257-872513076.1494146528&val65=2134

Hi Dude, do you know how do they check eligibility for NOC?

 

[gurik]

Hi Dude, do you know how do they check eligibility for NOC?

They match your job duties (stated in your reference letter) with the jobs and responsibilities mentioned by them under your NOC on CIC website.
They might call or contact your employer also for verification.

 

[astralsource]

Thankyou @gurik and @legalfalcon ! I was lost for a moment there
My case was analysed by a lawyer at first (using my CV, Education&WorkExperience) and he said Im eligible even though my experience isnt related to education, although similar=Master of Biology working as an Editor in media which covers agricultural topics, eco&urban farming, markets etc.
Many people here dont have any connection between E&WE so it is very important to reassure it is not a concern.

 

[kaimainz]

They match your job duties (stated in your reference letter) with the jobs and responsibilities mentioned by them under your NOC on CIC website.
They might call or contact your employer also for verification.

Do they check only by matching words? What if the reference letter does not mention exactly the words that appeared under NOC description?

 

[legalfalcon]

Thankyou @gurik and @legalfalcon ! I was lost for a moment there
My case was analysed by a lawyer at first (using my CV, Education&WorkExperience) and he said Im eligible even though my experience isnt related to education, although similar=Master of Biology working as an Editor in media which covers agricultural topics, eco&urban farming, markets etc.
Many people here dont have any connection between E&WE so it is very important to reassure it is not a concern.

Always happy to help!!