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futurecitizen

Star Member
Mar 29, 2013
69
0
Hi Everybody,

I got my Canadian citizenship in June 2015. Now I got job offer in US and very much keen to accept the offer. I have following questions if somebody can answer if would be great.

* Since being Naturalized Canadian and surrendered my Indian Citizenship I can work indefinitely in US without worrying about my Canadian Citizen and I guess my citizenship wont be revoked and now I'm Canadian for whole of my life.

* Since health care is free in Canada and I'm from Alberta would that be affected. If I start working in US then will my health care be suspended in Canada and when I finally come back to Canada lets say after working for 10-15 years in US would it start right away or I need to get my residency in Canada activated.

* What happens about my CPP (Canada Pension Plan) & OAS in Canada. Would me (myself & wife) still be eligible to get those benefits in Canada. please note that I'm working in Canada from last 08 years.

Hope to hear from you experts soon.
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
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No, healthcare is not free in Canada. Most British Columbians need to pay their MSP premiums for their provincial healthcare.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,219
futurecitizen said:
* Since health care is free in Canada and I'm from Alberta would that be affected. If I start working in US then will my health care be suspended in Canada and when I finally come back to Canada lets say after working for 10-15 years in US would it start right away or I need to get my residency in Canada activated.

* What happens about my CPP (Canada Pension Plan) & OAS in Canada. Would me (myself & wife) still be eligible to get those benefits in Canada. please note that I'm working in Canada from last 08 years.
Wrong venue for finding expert advice. In particular, I am no expert.

Health care coverage is provincial:

In any event, each province has its own eligibility requirements for its health care coverage. All impose a residency requirement, which typically includes a minimum physical presence requirement.

Where a person works is not the issue. Many Canadians living in Southern Ontario, for example, commute to employment in the States, maintaining their residency and presence in Ontario.

Where you actually reside is the main requirement, in conjunction with the physical presence requirement (I am not familiar with which provinces have a physical presence requirement, except I know that Ontario's is 153 days in the calendar year). Thus, as soon as a person relocates outside the province (to another province even, not just abroad), typically that will terminate their eligibility for health care in the province. And it would be criminal fraud to use that province's health care system after that unless and until coverage is appropriately reinstated.

Obviously, it will be the province you relocate to upon returning to Canada that determines what eligibility requirements must be met. Ontario requires residency in the province for three months before a new or returning resident is eligible for its coverage. But again, this is individual to the specific provinces. Moreover, obviously, these things are always subject to change. The requirements a decade from now could be very different than what they are currently.



CPP and OAS:

Most of what you need to know about these can be found by researching the Service Canada and CPP's websites or following links from there.

CPP is largely based on contributions made. Anyone who has contributed to CPP is entitled to some benefit. I am not well acquainted with how the benefit is calculated, but at the least the more an individual has contributed, the more benefit earned.

OAS is a minimum benefit, providing just what its name says, at least to some extent (it is a rather small benefit), Old Age Security. There are two parts. There is a part based on years lived in Canada, and with some exceptions this benefit requires a minimum of ten years in Canada. The maximum benefit is based on, as I recall, forty years in Canada. There is another part which is for low income persons, the threshold for which is indeed quite low so I have not looked at those benefits.



Living and working in the U.S.

Currently there are reciprocal agreements between the U.S. and Canada relative to earning certain retirement benefits and being eligible for others. I am not well acquainted with the details. What I do understand, though, is that one can be credited toward eligibility requirements in the other. For example, working in the U.S. for four years can be credited toward meeting the OAS requirements in Canada. And vice versa.

As I also understand things, basically if you live and work more than ten years in each respective country, that will be enough to qualify for benefits from both countries. And thus upon retirement a person could be eligible to be paid benefits by both countries. The U.S. currently (again, these things are always subject to change, and the Republican side in the U.S. has been hankering to dismantle the U.S. Social Security system for over a decade) is more generous in paying benefits to qualified persons even if they have relocated outside the U.S. In contrast, some Canadian benefits are paid only to someone actually residing in Canada.

For emphasis: All these are always subject to change. In my parents' generation, the changes continued to be progressively better and better . . . most of that generation has not lived long enough to see current trends (benefits falling way behind the rising cost of living for example). While we are not seeing austerity budgets comparable to what has happened in a number of European countries, it is very difficult to forecast how things might change in the long-term future.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
You can work in the US with no fear of losing your Canadian citizenship. As Depenabill states, provincial health coverage is based on residency. Most allow you to be absent from the province for up to 7 months a year and still maintain coverage (thank the Canadian Snowbird Association for that). Still, its a bit of a myth that Canada provides universal healthcare to all its citizens--more like all its legal residents who meet a minimum physical presence requirement.

If you are working in the US, you will pay into US Social Security. There are reciprocal agreements that allow you to combine US SS and CPP contributions when you apply for benefits--hopefully later in life. As far as OAS goes, you get credit based on time resident in Canada. There is a reciprocal agreement that allows you to count time in the US to qualify for OAS and qualify for the ability to receive OAS while living abroad, but you cannot use that time to increase your benefit. So if you spend most of your working life in the US, you might qualify for OAS, but your benefit will be rather small.
 

nope

Hero Member
Oct 3, 2015
301
52
With regard to the mutual compatability of Social Security and CPP, my understanding is that it is not nearly as attractive as you describe. Both programs have a vesting period of ten years -- but if you work for 8 years in the United States (SS) and 4 years in Canada (CPP), the mutual agreement will let you use time worked in Canada to vest yourself in Social Security. Then, your SS benefits would be calculated using 8 years of work (i.e. tiny).

In other words, the time worked in one country can only be used for the bare minimum, and it only goes up to a basic level. This is just my understanding, though, I really am not certain about this.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,219
nope said:
With regard to the mutual compatability of Social Security and CPP, my understanding is that it is not nearly as attractive as you describe. Both programs have a vesting period of ten years -- but if you work for 8 years in the United States (SS) and 4 years in Canada (CPP), the mutual agreement will let you use time worked in Canada to vest yourself in Social Security. Then, your SS benefits would be calculated using 7 years of work (i.e. tiny).

In other words, the time worked in one country can only be used for the bare minimum, and it only goes up to a basic level. This is just my understanding, though, I really am not certain about this.
That is about right so far as I understand things as well.

But for many of us, when the time comes every little bit helps. And for someone at the low end, just meeting the minimum, it means the difference between some benefit versus none at all.

At the other end, more than ten years work experience in both countries, a person can collect benefits from both countries. But yes, indeed, the basic benefit (Canadian OAS) is still tied to total time lived in Canada, and CPP and U.S. SS are both tied to total contributions made (amounts contributed being mandated, based on percentage of earned income). Either way, though, even at the highest level of benefits, these benefits are not a lot, barely subsistence without some other source of retirement funding.

But again, a piece here, a bit there, can add up and make a difference when the time comes.
 

nope

Hero Member
Oct 3, 2015
301
52
dpenabill said:
That is about right so far as I understand things as well.

But for many of us, when the time comes every little bit helps. And for someone at the low end, just meeting the minimum, it means the difference between some benefit versus none at all.

At the other end, more than ten years work experience in both countries, a person can collect benefits from both countries. But yes, indeed, the basic benefit (Canadian OAS) is still tied to total time lived in Canada, and CPP and U.S. SS are both tied to total contributions made (amounts contributed being mandated, based on percentage of earned income). Either way, though, even at the highest level of benefits, these benefits are not a lot, barely subsistence without some other source of retirement funding.

But again, a piece here, a bit there, can add up and make a difference when the time comes.
Plus, if you receive any CPP at all, the US will reduce your SS benefit.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,219
nope said:
Plus, if you receive any CPP at all, the US will reduce your SS benefit.
I am not familiar with this aspect. Can you elaborate. I am close to when I will collect both (already well past when I could have, just dragging my feet while I am still full time employed in my business).
 

nope

Hero Member
Oct 3, 2015
301
52
dpenabill said:
I am not familiar with this aspect. Can you elaborate. I am close to when I will collect both (already well past when I could have, just dragging my feet while I am still full time employed in my business).
Look on this page:

https://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/canada.html


The sentence is kind of ambiguous:

Computation Of U.S. Benefit Under The Agreement

When a U.S. benefit becomes payable as a result of counting both U.S. and Canadian Social Security credits, an initial benefit is determined based on your U.S. earnings as if your entire career had been completed under the U.S. system. This initial benefit is then reduced to reflect the fact that Canadian credits helped to make the benefit payable. The amount of the reduction will depend on the number of U.S. credits: the more U.S. credits, the smaller the reduction; and the fewer U.S. credits, the larger the reduction.

A CPP/QPP pension may affect your U.S. benefit

If you qualify for Social Security benefits from the United States based only on U.S. credits and a CPP/QPP benefit from Canada, the amount of your U.S. benefit will be reduced. This is a result of a provision in U.S. law which can affect the way your benefit is figured if you also receive a pension based on work that was not covered by U.S. Social Security. Receipt of a Canadian Old-Age Security pension, which is based on residence in Canada, will not affect the way your benefit is figured. For more information, call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213, and get the publication, Windfall Elimination Provision (Publication No. 05-10045). If you are outside the United States, you may write to us at the address in "For more information" section.


The sentence seems to be missing either a word or a comma, but my understanding has always been that SS reduces the amount you receive if you have other sources of pension income. There might be a minimum amount which isn't affected by this, because it seems profoundly unjust that one would receive a reduced SS benefit, a reduced CPP benefit, and then have the SS benefit reduced further because of the tiny CPP benefit . . . but there isn't any mention of this here. I'd call SS, it's possible they still have people who answer the phone.
 

sunafi

Star Member
Jul 27, 2009
173
6
dpenabill said:
Wrong venue for finding expert advice. In particular, I am no expert.

Health care coverage is provincial:

In any event, each province has its own eligibility requirements for its health care coverage. All impose a residency requirement, which typically includes a minimum physical presence requirement.

Where a person works is not the issue. Many Canadians living in Southern Ontario, for example, commute to employment in the States, maintaining their residency and presence in Ontario.

Where you actually reside is the main requirement, in conjunction with the physical presence requirement (I am not familiar with which provinces have a physical presence requirement, except I know that Ontario's is 153 days in the calendar year). Thus, as soon as a person relocates outside the province (to another province even, not just abroad), typically that will terminate their eligibility for health care in the province. And it would be criminal fraud to use that province's health care system after that unless and until coverage is appropriately reinstated.

Obviously, it will be the province you relocate to upon returning to Canada that determines what eligibility requirements must be met. Ontario requires residency in the province for three months before a new or returning resident is eligible for its coverage. But again, this is individual to the specific provinces. Moreover, obviously, these things are always subject to change. The requirements a decade from now could be very different than what they are currently.



CPP and OAS:

Most of what you need to know about these can be found by researching the Service Canada and CPP's websites or following links from there.

CPP is largely based on contributions made. Anyone who has contributed to CPP is entitled to some benefit. I am not well acquainted with how the benefit is calculated, but at the least the more an individual has contributed, the more benefit earned.

OAS is a minimum benefit, providing just what its name says, at least to some extent (it is a rather small benefit), Old Age Security. There are two parts. There is a part based on years lived in Canada, and with some exceptions this benefit requires a minimum of ten years in Canada. The maximum benefit is based on, as I recall, forty years in Canada. There is another part which is for low income persons, the threshold for which is indeed quite low so I have not looked at those benefits.



Living and working in the U.S.

Currently there are reciprocal agreements between the U.S. and Canada relative to earning certain retirement benefits and being eligible for others. I am not well acquainted with the details. What I do understand, though, is that one can be credited toward eligibility requirements in the other. For example, working in the U.S. for four years can be credited toward meeting the OAS requirements in Canada. And vice versa.

As I also understand things, basically if you live and work more than ten years in each respective country, that will be enough to qualify for benefits from both countries. And thus upon retirement a person could be eligible to be paid benefits by both countries. The U.S. currently (again, these things are always subject to change, and the Republican side in the U.S. has been hankering to dismantle the U.S. Social Security system for over a decade) is more generous in paying benefits to qualified persons even if they have relocated outside the U.S. In contrast, some Canadian benefits are paid only to someone actually residing in Canada.

For emphasis: All these are always subject to change. In my parents' generation, the changes continued to be progressively better and better . . . most of that generation has not lived long enough to see current trends (benefits falling way behind the rising cost of living for example). While we are not seeing austerity budgets comparable to what has happened in a number of European countries, it is very difficult to forecast how things might change in the long-term future.
it would be criminal fraud to use that province's health care system after that unless and until coverage is appropriately reinstated.


3 years back in our condo building (at my old address), a PR family came from UAE - wife gave birth to baby and left back once they get birth certificate. so medical services in such case is illegal or maternity is exception to such rule? just curious ?
 

ZingyDNA

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In some provinces, you get medical coverage right after landing as PR. So if that's the case for the UAE family, their baby delivery was legally covered.

sunafi said:
it would be criminal fraud to use that province's health care system after that unless and until coverage is appropriately reinstated.


3 years back in our condo building (at my old address), a PR family came from UAE - wife gave birth to baby and left back once they get birth certificate. so medical services in such case is illegal or maternity is exception to such rule? just curious ?
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
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sunafi said:
it would be criminal fraud to use that province's health care system after that unless and until coverage is appropriately reinstated.


3 years back in our condo building (at my old address), a PR family came from UAE - wife gave birth to baby and left back once they get birth certificate. so medical services in such case is illegal or maternity is exception to such rule? just curious ?

It depends on the province. If it was Ontario, it was definitely not legal and the family in question could be charged for the delivery + penalties and interest if the government happens to find out.

I know that under the Liberals, the CRA has been instructed to try and collect as much money as possible. As a result, they are reviewing files from up to 3 years ago and reassessing things to double check the legalities of historical tax filings. I'm not sure if they will do the same with OHIP, but it would make sense to.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,219
nope said:
Look on this page:

https://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/canada.html


The sentence is kind of ambiguous:

Computation Of U.S. Benefit Under The Agreement

When a U.S. benefit becomes payable as a result of counting both U.S. and Canadian Social Security credits, an initial benefit is determined based on your U.S. earnings as if your entire career had been completed under the U.S. system. This initial benefit is then reduced to reflect the fact that Canadian credits helped to make the benefit payable. The amount of the reduction will depend on the number of U.S. credits: the more U.S. credits, the smaller the reduction; and the fewer U.S. credits, the larger the reduction.

A CPP/QPP pension may affect your U.S. benefit

If you qualify for Social Security benefits from the United States based only on U.S. credits and a CPP/QPP benefit from Canada, the amount of your U.S. benefit will be reduced. This is a result of a provision in U.S. law which can affect the way your benefit is figured if you also receive a pension based on work that was not covered by U.S. Social Security. Receipt of a Canadian Old-Age Security pension, which is based on residence in Canada, will not affect the way your benefit is figured. For more information, call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213, and get the publication, Windfall Elimination Provision (Publication No. 05-10045). If you are outside the United States, you may write to us at the address in "For more information" section.


The sentence seems to be missing either a word or a comma, but my understanding has always been that SS reduces the amount you receive if you have other sources of pension income. There might be a minimum amount which isn't affected by this, because it seems profoundly unjust that one would receive a reduced SS benefit, a reduced CPP benefit, and then have the SS benefit reduced further because of the tiny CPP benefit . . . but there isn't any mention of this here. I'd call SS, it's possible they still have people who answer the phone.
Thank you.

Actually in looking at the information, quite a bit of it, I realized I had reviewed all this some years ago when I was first eligible to collect benefits. The Windfall Elimination Provision is the part that reduces the U.S. SS benefit for those who also get a CPP benefit. Fortunately for me this does not apply since those with thirty plus years of substantial earnings in the U.S. system, like me, are not affected. Yeah, I am an old dude, paid my dues in the States. And I had figured all this out before, and had forgotten about it. My brain is as old as the rest of me (funny how that happens). I say it is fortunate it does not affect me but I am letting the years slide by without beginning to collect, and even though waiting will increase my monthly benefit it will not do so by enough to make up for not collecting right now. Something I should take care of sooner rather than later.