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wife's PR app, sponsor's intent to return to Canada

stevelo

Star Member
Apr 7, 2012
82
1
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hi,

I would like to ask for advice with our present situation.

I am a Canadian citizen and my wife is South Korean. We are currently living in the US on my temporary work TN Visa, and applying for her PR status while outside of Canada.

Recently we received our AIP letter from Seoul office which asked for passport biopage, mailing address, intent of sponsor to return to Canada, and my wife’s legal status to stay in US.

We submitted the information, but our response for my (sponsor’s) intent to return to Canada was not sufficient. Here is the officer’s 2nd letter dated March 5th:

Dear _______

I have reviewed the information you have provided in your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the family class, the class in which you applied.

I have concluded your application for permanent residence must be refused as your sponsor is not residing in Canada and the information available to me does not indicate he will reside in Canada when you become a permanent resident.

Your sponsor presently is not residing in Canada, rather he is working in the USA and has a work permit valid to April 23, 2014. I note he does not have employment to return to Canada. Although you own property in Canada, this of itself does not establish that your sponsor “will reside in Canada when the applicant becomes a permanent resident” as required by the regulations.

Consequently, I propose to refuse your application for permanent residence. Should you have additional information to submit, you must do so within 30 days of this letter, at which time I will make a decision based no the file. Any false statement could lead to refusal of your application.


Sincerely,
Officer



About my initial evidence, I have an apartment in Canada and my family and friends all live there, but I didn’t know that I had to submit proof relating to work. I had been in contact with recruiters since last September (6 months ago), and aggressively applied for work since getting the AIP letter. For the additional information package, we sent:

1. My job search history from September to the present, including correspondence with recruiters, industry colleagues, jobs applied and their descriptions, interviews

2. Bank account info showing sufficient funds to survive in Canada while looking for a job

3. Letter of resignation to quit at the end of April. This also terminates my TN Visa

4. One-way airplane tickets to fly back to Canada for me and my wife

5. I paid my professional dues to practice in BC, Canada for the year of 2012 back in December of ‘11

6. Quotes for moving, car moving also

7. Account info for my active Canadian credit card, bank accounts and cell phone accounts

8. Residence in Canada (We bought a condominium in BC, Canada)


Currently we are awaiting response from CIC Seoul office. We sent our response 15 days after the letter date (which had a 30 day limit to reply). Also, it is now over the 30 days limit after which the officer is supposed to make a decision.



Our questions/concerns are as follows, as we would appreciate all comments:

1. I have not secured a job in Canada yet. With the evidence I provided, is it enough from an officer’s point of view? Especially considering we didn’t provide adequate information on the first letter and prompted a stern second letter?

2. If/when the officer makes a decision, will they normally email a response, will they just do regular mail with the final result, or does it depend on the officer? Is it a good/bad idea to email them asking about the result?

3. Assuming we are successful, but we don’t get the COPR before we have to leave the US (since I am quitting our US visas will expire), can I email asking for the result, and present the result to immigration at the airport to at least get my wife a visitor’s visa while the physical document is re-forwarded to our Canadian address? Would that work?

4. Assuming we are unsuccessful, what can we do to get my wife to come inside Canada? I am going to be able to prove my intent to return by actually returning, so we are definitely going to appeal (and hopefully do so successfully). Would I be able to explain to the immigration officer at the airport about letters 1 and 2, and about our intention to appeal and get it sorted out? Or do we still need to prove she will only be in Canada for a temporary visit?

5. If we need to prove she is only going to be in Canada temporarily, what evidence do we absolutely need? We have heard return plane ticket is one (though admittedly that is difficult in this situation since we cannot return to the US). Would we be able to buy an open ticket (with undetermined departure date, valid for 6 months or 1 yr) from Vancouver to Korea and show it as proof? What other evidence would be critical?

6. If we have to get an interview at the border to secure a visitor permit, which entry is considered better: through Vancouver airport (YVR), or through the US-Canada border crossing by car?
 
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Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
Now I'm freaking out! I don't know about your situation, but I guess I am in a similar one, as I am currently living outside of Canada. I submitted the following as proof of my intention to return to Canada:

1. Employment offer @ CAD$70,000/year (signed and stamped) - this is a for sure thing.
2. E-mail correspondence with banks / realty companies enquiring about a mortgage / getting and idea of the market.
3. Letters of support from family (my parents have offered us a place to stay)
4. Explanation regarding my current contract (i.e. the contract has an early release clause and I can leave at any time, but I cannot do so until confirmation on my wife's visa because I am the only one working).
5. Explanation as to why I haven't purchased our tickets yet - we need confirmation on my wife's visa, plus we need to arrange for our dogs (which is logical, right? If we bought the tickets now, we would be guessing at the departure date, and probably have to pay a penalty to make changes)
6. Mention of being enrolled at Athabasca Univeristy (with my ID #) - though I go on to say that this is not sufficient for immigration purposes because courses can be taken anywhere in the world, but I want to demonstrate my commitment to life-long learning.
7. Mention of what we need to do before leaving (numerous things) + what we plan to do during the first week (update residency status with CRA, driver's license, banking, mortgage, finalize employment contract, etc..etc..)
8. I also wrote about what we will need to do in China (notarizing important documents, selling our stuff, getting immunization records for our son translated, buying winter clothes, etc...). I included names of schools and addresses where we want to send our son for elementary and high school. Talking about immunizations for when he starts kindergarten...and that we will send him to my sister's daycare center until he is old enough to attend kindergarten...

My answer to Q11 IMM5540 goes on to say how much I miss home, how I am tired of being tied to a yearly visa and the uncertainty of living in a foreign country...how I am dying to start working as my employment offer is a significant increase from my current situation, etc...etc...some other personal stuff about being back home...etc...

Is this normal for CIC to deny the PR visa because they do not think the sponsor has the intention of returning to Canada? Damn! I have tried to write a very persuasive essay stressing my desire to return home to Canada...and mentioning how important it is that our son be raised there....

Any advice? Have I provided enough proof?????? I am super worried about this now...Just because I am still working in China, doesn't mean I will stay...surely CIC must know that because I am the only one with an income, I must continue working until we get confirmation on my wife's visa...we have a baby to think about...and I noted that my contract has an early release clause so leaving will not be an issue...I even listed what we plan to do on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc days when we first arrive in Canada!

HELP! PANIC ATTACK!!!

Thanks!

FS
 
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Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
Anyone?? CharlieD10? Canadianwoman? Any senior members???

FS
 

canadianwoman

VIP Member
Nov 6, 2009
6,200
284
Category........
Visa Office......
Accra, Ghana
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-01-2008
Interview........
05-05-2009
OK, the visa officer can refuse the PR application because he/she doesn't believe the sponsor will return to Canada. But usually the kind of proof both of you offered would be considered enough.
The visa officers have a lot of discretion. What is good enough for one might not be good enough for another.

Stevelo: is the list of evidence you provided what you sent in response to the letter you quoted? And not what you sent in response to the first letter asking for more proof? It seems so. I think it should be good enough, especially the proof you will quit and lose your work visa in April. However, if they still refuse based on this, if you are then already back in Canada, send a letter (fax it) to the program manager at the embassy in Seoul asking for reconsideration based on the fact that you are back in Canada.
Your wife is a South Korean citizen, so can enter Canada as a visitor without a visa. She does need proof of ties to her homeland, so a return ticket is usually a good idea. But in your case, bring proof you submitted her PR application.
 

Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
Discretion? What if you've provide clear evidence of your intention to return? How could the VO possibly refuse?? Surely there has to be clear cut guidelines for this...otherwise if the VO is in a bad mood, he/she could simply refuse for the fun of it, no??

This has got me really worried. Everything I have submitted is true. They can contact anyone they want and they will back me up all the way...

My wife told me of one VO in the Hong Kong office who is notorious for denying people...a lot of people on the Chinese forum said that this VO denies 90% of all cases. How can this VO still have a job? This is out of order!

FS
 

canadianwoman

VIP Member
Nov 6, 2009
6,200
284
Category........
Visa Office......
Accra, Ghana
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-01-2008
Interview........
05-05-2009
There is a notorious visa officer in the Accra embassy as well - notorious for denying visas and being extremely rude.
But maybe they give her cases they consider questionable, because they know she is hard and rude and scares people, so they figure she will be able to uncover fraud? So it is not just random that a very high percent are denied by her - in fact, a fair number of the cases she sees actually are cases of fraud?

You see odd cases that you can't believe were refused on CanLII once in a while. But most of the time a marriage that seems obviously genuine to us also seems genuine to the visa officer, and there are no problems.
 

Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
Thanks.

I'm not at all concerned about the VO questioning whether our marriage is genuine.

The main worry now is if the VO will question my intention to return to Canada based on my previous post. I honestly never even thought this would be an issue until I read this thread.

Gosh, this is really frustrating. We provide everything they request, but there is still a chance they will use "discretion" to screw us...not based on evidence...just an opinion...how can that be????

FS
 

Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
Does anyone else have information on "proof of intention to return to Canada? What are the chances of this being a problem? Is this a problem for a lot of people applying from outside Canada?

Thanks,
FS
 

waikiki

Hero Member
Jan 22, 2011
379
2
I guess so, after sending our application, the VO asked for additional proof of moving back to Canada.
 

Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
What proof did you send with your application?

Did they accept the additional proof??

FS
 

waikiki

Hero Member
Jan 22, 2011
379
2
I´m still waiting. I sent proof that we cancelled some contracts etc. Plus explained how we are planning to live in canada.
 

Fencesitter

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2011
1,761
52
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 13, 2012
AOR Received.
AOR2 July 25, 2012
File Transfer...
July 13, 2012
Med's Done....
Mar 1, 2012
Interview........
WAIVED!
Passport Req..
Aug 28, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
Sept 24, 2012
LANDED..........
Jan 30, 2013
Do you have a job offer in Canada?

Any communication with banks regarding mortgages or real estate brokers??

How long was your essay on your plans to re-establish in Canada?

Just trying to get an idea what I might be up against.

Thanks,
FS
 

canadianwoman

VIP Member
Nov 6, 2009
6,200
284
Category........
Visa Office......
Accra, Ghana
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-01-2008
Interview........
05-05-2009
Fencesitter said:
Does anyone else have information on "proof of intention to return to Canada? What are the chances of this being a problem? Is this a problem for a lot of people applying from outside Canada?
Here are a few recent appeal cases where the application was refused because the VO didn't believe the sponsor would return to Canada:
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/search.do?language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&sortOrder=relevance&searchPage=eliisa%2FmainPageSearch.vm&text=spouse+immigration+intent%2Bto%2Breturn%2Bto%2BCanada+section%2B130&id=&startDate=2010&endDate=2012&legislation=legislation&caselaw=courts&boardTribunal=tribunals

You'll note that some of them had no documentary evidence at all, and one who had no evidence still won her appeal.
 

stevelo

Star Member
Apr 7, 2012
82
1
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
I wish we weren't in this situation at all; we had hired an immigration consultant who told us it was no problem to file immigration while outside of Canada. Luckily our intention was always to return to Canada when we got PR approval so we could look back through emails and dig up some evidence. That's also why we are a little late to start asking questions on forums; we got a lot of research to catch up on!

I've been looking at different forums and there aren't a whole lot of us applying from outside of Canada. I am a little surprised as I imagine many of us don't want to be apart from our spouse for a year or more.



canadianwoman: thank you for the replies and link!

Fencesitter: I think you're in a much better position than us. As you will note in the officer's letter we received, one thing they do look for is arranged employment in Canada.

waikiki: I think you're also in a better position: they only asked you for information once right? We screwed up the first time having not supplied sufficient information. How long have you been waiting for?

On that note, I am trying to read between the lines to see if the officer is nice or mean. As you guys mentioned there's a few of them with low success rates. The fact that I received a second letter... does that mean the officer is a real stickler to detail (and trying to find ways to not qualify us), or does it mean the officer is nice enough to give us a second chance to provide the adequate amount of information?

Also, anyone have experience on the positives/negatives of emailing them an inquiry asking if they made a decision yet? As mentioned, since I have a limited time to exit the US I really need to know as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance!