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Wife is stuck in Los Angeles

pel2000

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Jul 10, 2010
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I hope someone from this forum can advise us. We are in a devastating situation here in Los Angeles.

Here is some back ground; I applied to become PR under protected person. My refugee claim was accepted in 2006. I met my wife in Toronto and got married in 2008 (my application to become PR is still in process and has received AIP). I added my wife in my PR application as my spouse in Nov 2008 and paid $550. She was successfully added into my PR application and received AIP from CIC Scarborough. We applied for her WP Vegreville, AB and an open WP was issued for her.

She needed to travel outside Canada in 2009 - She applied for a TRV at Buffalo, NY from within Toronto by mail. She was issued a TRV until validity of her WP. We both traveled to Mexico/US back to Mexico and flow back to Toronto in 2009 without any issues at all.

Feb 2010 her WP was expiring and she applied for renewal of her WP to Vegreville, AB. Her work permit was renewed till Feb 2011 (1 Year). Her TRV was expiring at the same time so we sent an application for TRV to Buffalo, NY. TRV was issued till the validity of her WP from Buffalo office. Application was sent by mail.

We traveled back and forth few times between US and Canada mainly for shopping and pleasure. Never stayed in US for more than 2 days.

Her WP was expiring again in Feb 2011 and we sent an application for Vegreville, AB for renewal of her WP. An open WP was issued again till Feb 2012. She had a valid TRV on her passport till Feb 2012.

We applied for her work permit to Vegreville, AB by mail. An open work permit was issued valid till Feb 2013.

We left Canada on Jan 13 Friday from Pearson Intl. to travel to Los Angeles, CA for 3 weeks holidays trip. Since her TRV was expiring in Feb 2012, we decided to apply for a TRV from Los Angeles office. Filled up the TRV application attached all required document and submitted the TRV application in Los Angeles office in person. She was told to come back next day (Today) to pick up her passport. We visited the Canadian counsel today and to our surprise her TRV application was refused by the VO. VO also cancelled her existing valid TRV along with her valid WP good through Feb 2013. She was given a refusal letter with this explanation.

a) Your travel history
(her travel history is in order with each enter/exit stamp by all officials from 3 countries i.e US/CAN/MEX

b) Your Immigration status
(her immigration status has always been in order within all required laws set out by IRB/CIC acts.
Have every single piece of paper for records)

c) Purpose of visit
(I am confused about this myself; what does it mean? I asked VO this question and she did not answer anything)

d) I am not satisfied that you have answer truthfully all question put to you
(Not satisfied how is that even possible? Everything can be verified based on our existing application for PR and AIP.
Her pervious WP's, TRV's, T4's, Pay Stub's, Lease agreement, Copy of marriage certificate etc. etc.)

e) Your current application for permanent residence in Canada is not approved in principle and not in the initial approval process.
As a result, I am not satisfied that your current work permit issued on basis of this initial approval is valid.
(There has not been any change in our application for PR – Called and confirmed by the CIC call center agents)

I asked to speak to the program manager at the Los Angeles office. We were told that there is nothing they can do for her and she cannot return back to Canada. We were told to apply again for a TRV with any NEW information pay another $150. Just to be fair another officer will review the application.

VO decision cannot be over ruled and this application was closed as per this VO.

I called CIC Canada and asked to see if there were any changes in our application to become PR of Canada. I was told that there is no change at all and our application is still in process. My wife is still listed as my spouse and dependent in our application. It was also confirmed to me by the call center agent that indeed our application has received AIP.

I spoke to my lawyer back in Toronto and this is what she said:

a) She should not have applied for a TRV from Los Angeles
My explanation was that her TRV was expiring within 45 days hence we decided to apply for a TRV while we are here in Los Angles.

b) Ask to see a manager in the visa office and explain the situation that indeed our application has been AIP our home is in Canada and request for a TRV to be issued so we can come back home to Toronto.

I did that today and was told by visa officer that a TRV will not be issued to her. She must reapply with the NEW information for a TRV in Los Angeles or anywhere in USA. I explained the reason and our ordeal with this issue. VO in LA said to add all of my reasoning in the new TRV application as NEW information. I am confused there is no NEW information, it has been the same. She is my wife we have been married for almost 4 years. Marriage took place in Toronto and I have the marriage certificate to prove. Her previous work permits and TRV shows the same notes. “Application for PR has been AIP”. She has that on all of her previous work permits. I actually have a folder with all of her paper work including medical tests, police clearance and AIP letter from our immigration officer in Scarborough office.

Few facts to consider for your important input:

I hold a valid CRTD and with valid 5 Years US B1/B2 visa with valid I-94 from Dept. of Homeland and Border USA. Have traveled to USA in past with no issued to come home and enter in USA.

My wife holds a valid Mexican Passport with 10 Years US B1/B2 visa with valid I-94 from Dept. Of Homeland USA. She has traveled to USA in past with no issues to come back an enter in USA.

She had in total 3 TRV's and 3 open WP in past.

We both have traveled together to Mexico and return back with no issues at all.

Her valid Canadian TRV and her valid WP was cancelled this morning by the VO in Los Angeles.

We don't have any family in USA except some friends. We don't want to stay in USA because our home/work is in Canada.

She doesn't want to go to Mexico and wait over there for outcome of my existing application for PR of Canada. She doesn't have any family or place to stay in Mexico. I do not want to her stay away from me in any case.

My application to become PR of Canada is still in process at Scarborough office. I have called them this morning and they confirmed that there has NOT been any change since I left Canada. My wife is still listed as my spouse and dependent in my application. Call center agent cannot provide any help or advise related to my wife's issue. I was told that I am on the mercy of visa officer abroad. A VO can cancel TRV's/WP upon their on desecrations.

I want to ask if anyone can provide some much needed advise to us since this has become a nightmare for both of us. We just came for 3 weeks holidays and there is no possible way that I am to leave my wife here alone or even let her travel to Mexico and wait over there for an outcome of my PR application.

I want to come home with my wife. What will be the way for us to return home together?
 

CrazyLucy

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When you cross the border to Canada, or apply for a permit, you apply with a tone of everything being only temporary..even if it's not. Sounds like you got a very strict VO and from what you've been saying in your post, things are very much permanent between the two of you, which I can only assume you told them. AIP does not promise a way into Canada, the officers at the border can turn you away for almost anything.
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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When you apply for PR inland, it is actually not recommended that you leave the country. The reason is that in this exact situation, ending up outside Canada needing to apply for a TRV, they will often refuse.

A TRV is for a person who intends to stay in Canada temporarily and you are applying for PR. Many people in similar situations have been denied and spouses who are being sponsored inland by a person who is already a PR or a citizen have also gotten stuck outside Canada unable to return.

I have no advice for you except that you try to work this out with your lawyer. You might be better off going back to Canada and trying to talk to your MP and see if there is anything they can do. If you get all your friends and co-workers to talk to their MP's too, it might even help you more. Some MP's are helpful in these cases and some not so much. Your wife could go to Buffalo or Seattle and try to apply there but they will already have records of her applying in LA so it may not change anything.
 

SenoritaBella

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This is what I think based on other people's experiences:
a) she's been to the US several times and can easily remain there - which ties in with c
b) AIP does not guarantee anything
c) because she applied for an extension of the TRV while in the US, the purpose of her visit no longer seemed temporary in nature
d) VO may have felt answers to questions were self-serving
e) this is a big one - you need to get confirmation in writing that you guys in fact have AIP. This may be used as "new information" to re-apply.

Next time, stick to what has worked in the past.
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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What everyone else has said... TRVs are for people who are visiting Canada only and have no plans to remain in Canada long term (demonstrate by strong ties to their home country and lack of ties to Canada). For this very reason, people who have immigration applications in progress are typically refused TRVs. Speak with your MP (as Leon has suggested) and have another chat with your lawyer to see if there are any other options. If you apply for a TRV again, I think you will be denied again because your wife very clearly plans to remain in Canada long term and has weak ties to her home country. You should start figuring out a "Plan B" that does not involve her returning to Canada.
 

pel2000

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Jul 10, 2010
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I want to thank each one of you who provided much needed advises.

Here is the update:

We will be missing our flights back home to Toronto from Los Angeles; instead we will be flying to Buffalo to deal with this issue at the Buffalo office.

She will be making a new TRV application with “NEW” information added. We will be asking our friends and coworkers to get in touch with their respected MP in Toronto area and get their support and attention in this matter. I have all related documents showing that our application to become PR has indeed received AIP. I also have confirmation letter from our VO in Scarborough office indicating that my wife meets the requirements and application has received AIP.

I will be asking VO to have some compassion on our situation based on the circumstances and emotional strain on each other if application for TRV not approved. She has no other place to stay in US or even Mexico. Toronto is our home and it will be very harsh on both of us. This may very well fall into H&C grounds for a TRV.

This is what the VO in Los Angeles said to do if we choose to apply again with a new TRV application with “NEW” information.

We will also be able to provide all supporting documents related to previous VO objections outlined in my post above.

She has been truthful to all questions put upon her during 3 minutes TRV interview at the LA visa office.
Her travel history has falls under all IRB/CIC acts with stamps showing in/exit from all 3 countries.
Her immigration status has always been in order in each country US/CAN showing no sign of overstayed or out of status in either country. We have her previous passport/TRV/WP/SP/T4 etc.
Previous VO objections related to our application for PR and its status; we have all documents since she was added into my application for PR till todays date.

These documents mainly consist of following.

Copy of the PR application when I added her in my application to become PR of Canada.

Letter from our VO showing that she does meet requirements and have been successfully added in my application.

Confirmation letter showing from our VO in Scarborough that our application has indeed received AIP.

Copy of the letter requesting her medicals/police clearance.

Confirmation that her police clearance and medical results are valid till next year and application is still under process at the Scarborough office.

All of the above just shows that this is a genuine marriage and we have been living together since got married.

Above can lead to following assumptions by the VO at Buffalo.

VO is not assessing our marriage or relationship but assessing an application for a TRV for an individual who have no intentions or any ties to her home country.

All supported documents can provide substantial proof that everything is in order such as her immigration status/creditability/intentions/marriage/work.

It may provide security to the VO that last VO objections were unjustified based on documentary evidence submitted as “NEW” information in this TRV application. (See my post where outlined objections by her VO in Los Angles)

As far as question for being truthful – She has nothing to hide or being untruthful to anyone.

I will be making this new TRV application at Buffalo office as soon as we reach there, since there is nothing for us to lose if refused TRV application; if she gets the TRV it will all be fine if not it’s just waste of another $150. Our tickets back to Toronto will be wasted since we are not flying back to Toronto from Los Angeles.

Plan B:

This is after consulting with my lawyer in Toronto – I am asking everyone on this forum who can provide advice related to consequences after these actions.

We fly to Buffalo, head to the Canadian VO in HSBC plaza and submit a TRV Application. After providing all information/explanations/reasons/letters from MP/Friends/Coworkers and documentary evidence and her TRV application is still refused.

I rent a car from Buffalo and drive to Canadian POE via Peace Bridge or Fort Erie.

Once reached at Canadian POE explained the situation again. I am sure we will be sent inside immediately for further questioning.

At this point I will not have to explain all over again since it will all be documented on her file that she has been refused TRV twice based on whatever reasons. At the POE several things can happen.

She may be given a Visitor’s Record for 15-30 days to remains in Canada. She will be required to sign a volunteer departure order as per required regulations in effect at a land POE with validity date showing on her Visitor’s record.

If she does gets the Visitor’s record and allowed back in Canada –

What will be next steps for me to resolve this issue?

She will not be going or leaving Canada in any case. What will happen once her Visitor’s record is expired and that Volunteer Departure order?

Worst scenario if she is not given a Visitor’s Record at the POE; we will ask the officer at POE for a refugee status based on her religion grounds. She has well-founded fear of prosecution and harassment if return to Mexico.

Will she even be able to make a refugee claim at the POE while she already has an inland application in process to become a PR of Canada?

Will she be asked to return back to US and make a refugee claim over there?

We don’t want to do this since that will have similar problem. We will have to stay away from each other.

If she is given a refugee status at the POE – What will be the next step for us?

Let her refugee claim and an application for PR process at the same time?

What will be her status in Canada if she withdraw her refugee claim?

If she gets her refugee claim accepted; she can apply to become PR under protected person category at her own.

Or we withdraw her claim once in Canada and let her application process as the way it has been processing under me?

What will be her status?

What if her refugee claim is unaccepted by the IRB? Will she be able to stay/work/live as my spouse since my application is still on going and in process? And she is listed as my spouse.

Can she still be allowed to live/work in Canada with me till the outcome of my PR application?

Does she have to apply to restore her status after withdrawing her claim? If yes restore to what status?

Or once enter in Canada, withdraw her refugee status and write an explanation letter to our VO in Scarborough office in detail and advise the reason behind her withdraw of refugee claim.

I am personally requesting members like Leon, PMM, Scylla and others to provide information and advice as much as they can. I have called Mr. Cohen office and was told that they will not be able to provide any legal consultation since we have an active inland application in process.

I don’t want to put her safety in risk by leaving her in Mexico. US is a safe place but she doesn't have any intentions to live or stay there without me. I can’t relocate myself to US since we have an inland application to become PR in process at Scarborough office. Both of us work in Canada.

I hope above will give a good idea to member of this community to provide much needed advice.
 

scylla

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In my humble opinion, when she re-applies for the TRV and includes "new" information - that new information should focus on demonstrating that she has strong ties to her home country and has no plans to stay in Canada long term. If you include additional information that shows strong ties to you and to Canada, I think you're probably guaranteeing yourself another refusal. But I guess anything is worth a shot.

I also think that applying for refugee status anywhere has a low chance of success at this point due to the Safe Third Country Agreement. If you aren't familiar with this agreement, you may want to read up on it (or have your lawyer do so).

Your situation is extremely complicated. I really don't feel equipped to give you further advice.

But one more tip: In my experience it's quite difficult to rent a car to drive across the border. If you haven't done so already, start your research now and start calling rental agencies in Buffalo.
 

steaky

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scylla said:
But one more tip: In my experience it's quite difficult to rent a car to drive across the border. If you haven't done so already, start your research now and start calling rental agencies in Buffalo.
Really? But my cousin always rent a car in Seattle and drove across the border to visit us in Vancouver, Canada! I guess different states have different rental rules.
 

scylla

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steaky said:
Really? But my cousin always rent a car in Seattle and drove across the border to visit us in Vancouver, Canada! I guess different states have different rental rules.
Or maybe we've called all of the wrong places and gave up too early...
 

pel2000

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Jul 10, 2010
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Just looked up Third Country Agreement, there are some exceptions in TCA rule. She will very well fell under such exceptions. i have never rented a car from Buffalo to Toronto but have rented a car in Toronto and drove to US via peace bridge to Galleria and outlets. I can also ask some one from Toronto to pick us up from HSBC center and drive home.

Still waiting for the answers to my questions in post above.
 

Leon

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Ok, here are my 2 cents. If LA already cancelled her work permit, I don't think she can go back on a visitor record and continue using that work permit as if nothing happened. She would have to get it re-enstated but you should talk to your lawyer about this.

As for renting a car and driving a rented car across the border, there is a thing about PR's not driving cars on US plates but you are not a PR yet and you could also rent a car in Buffalo with Canadian plates so it might not be an issue. However, even better if somebody just comes to pick you up.

As for her being refused a TRV based on not planning to stay in Canada temporarily, there is another visa she can apply for which is called TRP and that is the one for H&C grounds. It was formerly called a ministers permit and is sometimes issued to people who have been denied TRV's if they are considered to have a good reason to be in Canada anyway.

I hope that helps.
 

pel2000

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Jul 10, 2010
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Here is some update:

We are in Buffalo, NY. We will be making an application for a TRP under H&C grounds as early as this Friday. If she is approved a TRP we will be home by Sat noon.

If not - This is what I would like fellow members to provide comments or advise.

She come to a POE and advised CBSA/CIC that she is seeking refugee status in Canada.

How it will affect her as someone who already has an in-land application for PR?

She be allowed to make a refugee claim at the POE or not?

Say if she is not allowed for whatever reason; she will be sent back to US - She does have a valid I-94. Technically, she has not left USA. Will she be allowed back in US or detained by the USCBP/DHS?

If she is allowed to have a refugee claim, even she does have a pending in-land application to become a PR. What will be the consequences of doing so?

If she is allowed to have a refugee claim, she will have to sign a removal order at the POE.
She enters back in Canada and withdraws that refugee claim.

What will happen to that Removal Order?

I am sure that removal order will automatically become effective since she will not be under a refugee status any more. How can I/We deal with that from within Canada?

Will she be subject of a removal?

Let her inland application process under me or?

She will very well fell into Exception found in Safe Country Agreement.

Alternatively, will she be asked to return to US and make a refugee claim over there?

Let her refugee claim and inland application for PR process at the same time?

Is it even possible to have two applications in process at the same time?

If she gets her refugee claim accepted, she can apply to become PR under protected person category at her own.

At what stage I/we have to apart our application.

What if her refugee claim is unaccepted by the IRB? Will she be able to stay/work/live as my spouse since my application is still on going and in process?

She is listed as my spouse. Can she still be allowed to live/work in Canada with me until the outcome of my PR application?

At last, should I even apply for a TRP at this point or just claim refugee at POE?

Many thanks.
 

SenoritaBella

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Before you make a claim for refugee status, read about the changes recently implemented by the immigration minister. Your wife visited Mexico in 2009 so it may be difficult to satisfy the VO that her life is in danger. She's in the US and obviously safe, they may want to know why she has not made the claim in the US. Just be very careful, especially because your in-land application has not be finalised. Get a lawyer.
 

Leon

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From what you said, you already have a lawyer. What does your lawyer say about all this?

I believe refugee claims are not taken lightly if there is no basis behind them. I think she should try for the TRP. If she doesn't get it, then I do not know what you should do. Worst case, she might have to go back to Mexico and you wait until you have your PR and then apply for her outland.