What if my outland conjugal application is refused, whats next?

[canadalover4987]

Hello,


I have submitted my outland conjugal application for my partner from the philippines, i have to be very optimistic that the decision will be favourable to our case but what if NOT? What if we get denied? Whats the options for us?

Im the sponsor and im a canadian citizen.

 

[TANMEX]

Hello,


I have submitted my outland conjugal application for my partner from the philippines, i have to be very optimistic that the decision will be favourable to our case but what if NOT? What if we get denied? Whats the options for us?

Im the sponsor and im a canadian citizen.

You can appeal the denial and take Immigration to court in Canada .

 

[Rob_TO]

Hello,


I have submitted my outland conjugal application for my partner from the philippines, i have to be very optimistic that the decision will be favourable to our case but what if NOT? What if we get denied? Whats the options for us?

Im the sponsor and im a canadian citizen.

Just in case, your options are:
1. Appeal the decision (can take a couple years to go through appeals process). Appeal may or may not be accepted.
2. Try to find a country she can go to that allows same-sex marriage, and get married. Then apply with new app as married couple.
3. Try to stay together 12 months to submit a new common-law application

Of course 2. and 3. should have already been researched before attempting the conjugal app.

 

[canadalover4987]

How long it takes for an appeal process? How this process works?

In my own opinion dont think by getting married or being common law is the key to have successful application. Entering into marriage and/or common law just for immigration purposes sound not right. I will not do it just to satisfy VO that our relationship is true and bonefide.

Same sex marriage and common law is not available in the Philippines, and we tried applying a tourist visa in the States but she was denied.

I think CIC created conjugal application for exceptional case. Id like to believe that CIC will not prioritize married and common law couples.

 

[Rob_TO]

How long it takes for an appeal process? How this process works?

In my own opinion dont think by getting married or being common law is the key to have successful application. Entering into marriage and/or common law just for immigration purposes sound not right. I will not do it just to satisfy VO that our relationship is true and bonefide.

Same sex marriage and common law is not available in the Philippines, and we tried applying a tourist visa in the States but she was denied.

I think CIC created conjugal application for exceptional case. Id like to believe that CIC will not prioritize married and common law couples.

The rules are clear that you must apply as married or common-law if it's possible to do so. Conjugal is only for cases where the couple faces severe immigration or legal barriers, making it impossible to get married or become common-law. The relationship itself is usually not what's in question. A conjugal couple should already have a marriage-like relationship so would gladly get married or become common-law if it was possible to do so, and it would not just be for immigration purposes.

 

[canadalover4987]

The rules are clear that you must apply as married or common-law if it's possible to do so. Conjugal is only for cases where the couple faces severe immigration or legal barriers, making it impossible to get married or become common-law. The relationship itself is usually not what's in question. A conjugal couple should already have a marriage-like relationship so would gladly get married or become common-law if it was possible to do so, and it would not just be for immigration purposes.

Thank you for replying. By saying that makes me feel confident about our application.

We have throughly explained to our cover letter the reason why we believed that we are qualified for conjugal application. Trust me, i wanted to marry her but being a citizen of the Philippines would be hard for her to get visa in first world countries like in the USA. Common law in the Philippines for both heterosexual and same sex is not recognized by their government as to compare to heterosexual married couples. I think CIC is aware about this. We are in a marriage like relationship and we showed compelling evidence we have.

I thought it would be nice to have a back up plan. I am more interested to know about appealing. Will this takes 1 year? 2 year or 3 year process?

 

[Rob_TO]

Common law in the Philippines for both heterosexual and same sex is not recognized by their government as to compare to heterosexual married couples.

Common-law not being recognized there is irrelevant. People living together in Philippines for 12 months are still common-law to CIC, so would have a much easier time with their application.

I thought it would be nice to have a back up plan. I am more interested to know about appealing. Will this takes 1 year? 2 year or 3 year process?

If you are curious about this, there is an extensive appeals thread on this forum where you can see people's times and experiences. I've heard people can wait 1-2 years to have their appeal heard. If appeal is approved your app goes back into processing, and if appeal is denied the process is over. If appeal is denied, the only route after that would be to find a way to get married/common-law, and try again.

 

[canadalover4987]

Common-law not being recognized there is irrelevant. People living together in Philippines for 12 months are still common-law to CIC, so would have a much easier time with their application.

I would have to disagree on this part. It all boils down if the relationship is a marriage like relationship and if its a long term, being a common law for a year just to satisfy VO doesnt makes sense at all. If we will do common law we would make sure the state of that country will recognize it and protect our welfare. Common law in the Philippines cant name their partner as beneficiaries in their insurance, wills, government benefits, cant share utility bills, cant buy properties as a couple, cant adopt a child and many others factor mostly social and religious stigma. My partner owns a house in her country and it would it makes no sense if we have to rent for a year just to prove to VO that we are together for a year. In other words, we cannot combined our social, economic and financial affairs.

I think VO will not force any couple to get married regardless whether they are same sex or heterosexual couples. Their job is to investigate and access if the relationship is genuine this applies to all classes. (spousal, common law and conjugal)

Lets say we will do common law for "a year" I would assume we will still have to prove that the relationship is bonefide and genuine. Same if we get married. CIC wanted to make sure that the relationship is REAL and not for immigration purposes only. So i guess being a common law only for a year wont make sense at all. CIC may say "common law for a year why not 2 or 3?" I think out of the box.

If you are curious about this, there is an extensive appeals thread on this forum where you can see people's times and experiences. I've heard people can wait 1-2 years to have their appeal heard. If appeal is approved your app goes back into processing, and if appeal is denied the process is over. If appeal is denied, the only route after that would be to find a way to get married/common-law, and try again.

I think appeal is a long intensive process. I must have a back up plan. Ofcourse im very optimistic and hopeful for the best.

 

[Rob_TO]

I think VO will not force any couple to get married regardless whether they are same sex or heterosexual couples. Their job is to investigate and access if the relationship is genuine this applies to all classes. (spousal, common law and conjugal)

No you are wrong here. The relationship being genuine is irrelevant if there are no barriers to marriage or common-law. One could be in a long distance conjugal relationship for 20 years with someone, but their app can still be rejected if they can't prove legal/immigration barriers to marriage or common-law. This is the most common reason a conjugal app is denied, because the visa officer and/or appeals court feels the barriers to marriage/common-law were not great enough, nothing to do with the quality of relationship itself. Only once the legal/immigration barrier is deemed suitable by the visa officer, would they then go on to assess actual relationship evidence.

It's all here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.45. What is a conjugal partner?
This category was created for exceptional circumstances – for foreign national partners of
Canadian or permanent resident sponsors who would ordinarily apply as common-law partners
but for the fact that they have not been able to live together continuously for one year, usually
because of an immigration impediment. In most cases, the foreign partner is also not able to
marry their sponsor and qualify as a spouse. In all other respects, the couple is similar to a
common-law couple or a married couple, i.e., they have been in a bona fide conjugal relationship
for a period of at least one year.

CIC cannot require couples to marry in order to immigrate. However, if they are not
married, they must be common-law partners. There is NO provision for fiancé(e)s or “intended
common-law partners” in IRPA. If a Canadian and a foreign national can get married or can live
together and establish a common-law relationship, this is what they are expected to have done
before they submit sponsorship and immigration applications.

The conjugal partner category is mainly intended for partners where
neither common-law partner status nor marriage is possible,

 

[canadalover4987]

No you are wrong here. The relationship being genuine is irrelevant if there are no barriers to marriage or common-law. Once could be in a conjugal relationship for 20 years with someone, but their app can still be rejected if they can't prove legal/immigration barriers to marriage or common-law. This is the most common reason a conjugal app is denied, because the visa officer and/or appeals court feels the barriers to marriage/common-law were not great enough, nothing to do with the quality of relationship itself.

It's all here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.45. What is a conjugal partner?
This category was created for exceptional circumstances – for foreign national partners of
Canadian or permanent resident sponsors who would ordinarily apply as common-law partners
but for the fact that they have not been able to live together continuously for one year, usually
because of an immigration impediment. In most cases, the foreign partner is also not able to
marry their sponsor and qualify as a spouse. In all other respects, the couple is similar to a
common-law couple or a married couple, i.e., they have been in a bona fide conjugal relationship
for a period of at least one year.

CIC cannot require couples to marry in order to immigrate. However, if they are not
married, they must be common-law partners. There is NO provision for fiancé(e)s or “intended
common-law partners” in IRPA. If a Canadian and a foreign national can get married or can live
together and establish a common-law relationship, this is what they are expected to have done
before they submit sponsorship and immigration applications.

The conjugal partner category is mainly intended for partners where
neither common-law partner status nor marriage is possible,

I appreciate your kindness reply on my post. I read the CIC manual before we applied. But i think your missing my point here. I will explain to you the reason why we applied for conjugal so you can understand it better. We met in a dating site way back 2014.

Marriage - Its impossible to get married in the Philippines. Same sex is not allowed. She is a transgender woman. We tried to apply a trv in Canada and was denied twice and my partner applied visitors visa in the US so we can get married there but was denied too. How many more denials she needs to prove that there is an immigration barrier?

Common law - This is not an option for us either because Philippines does not recognize and protect common law relatioships both for same sex and heterosexual couples. Meaning we cant combine our affairs as much as we want to. Heres the complete list of things we cant do as a common law in the Philippines:

-cant name me as her beneficiary in her government benefits
-cant buy insurance and be each others beneficiaries
-cant name me in her land title or her utility bills
-cant purchased a land property as a couple
-cant adopt a child
-cant opened a bank account as a couple (though i was lucky to find a bank that allows us even if im a tourist but normally they dont allow it)
-plus social perceptive and religious stigma of being in a same sex relationship

Now you tell me, how can we combine our affairs if the host country does not recognize the relatioship itself? How can we document our affairs if this affairs are being asked by CIC? Can we just say "oh we love each other and we are in Common law for a year." Of course we have to prove it. Does relatives testimony enough? Do we need to rent house for a year even if she owns a house? CIC may say "Why only common law for 1 year why not 2 or 3" can we say we only do it to satisfy you guys.

CIC will review the reasons why we cant do spousal or common law. Again their job is to check if this is not a relationship for convenience. So dont say that being genuine is irrelevant of course it will always be relevant whether couple will apply for spousal, common law or conjugal.

 

[Rob_TO]

How many more denials she needs to prove that there is an immigration barrier?

That is up to CIC. Several rejected TRVs to countries that allow same-sex marriage, will certainly help to prove the barrier here. Hopefully it is sufficient for CIC.

Now you tell me, how can we combine our affairs if the host country does not recognize the relatioship itself? How can we document our affairs?

There are other cases form this site where people applied as common-law from the Philippines, so it definitely is possible. However as you stated, there are numerous reasons why living together there can be difficult, which the visa officer would consider. Philippines is one of the most common places for conjugal apps, so I'm sure the visa officers are aware of everything you mentioned.

So dont say that being genuine is irrelevant of course it will always be relevant whether couple will apply for spousal, common law or conjugal.

You are missing the point. If the visa officer does not agree with the legal/immigration barrier to marriage/common-law, the app will stop processing right there regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not. This is similar to a common-law app, if the visa officer feels there is insufficient evidence to prove 12 months of cohabitation, they will reject the app regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not.

Proving the barrier to marriage/common-law is the key factor in a conjugal app, and is the main reason for conjugal app high rate of refusals. This makes them very different from marriage or common-law apps.

As you seem concerned about possible rejection of the app, I am trying to explain to you why so many conjugal apps are in fact refused (which hopefully doesn't happen to yours) whether you agree with the reasons or not. There are many cases of conjugal apps that went to appeals, all documented on the CanLII site.

 

[Sous02]

I appreciate your kindness reply on my post. I read the CIC manual before we applied. But i think your missing my point here. I will explain to you the reason why we applied for conjugal so you can understand it better. We met in a dating site way back 2014.

Marriage - Its impossible to get married in the Philippines. Same sex is not allowed. She is a transgender woman. We tried to apply a trv in Canada and was denied twice and my partner applied visitors visa in the US so we can get married there but was denied too. How many more denials she needs to prove that there is an immigration barrier?

Common law - This is not an option for us either because Philippines does not recognize and protect common law relatioships both for same sex and heterosexual couples. Meaning we cant combine our affairs as much as we want to. Heres the complete list of things we cant do as a common law in the Philippines:

-cant name me as her beneficiary in her government benefits
-cant buy insurance and be each others beneficiaries
-cant name me in her land title or her utility bills
-cant purchased a land property as a couple
-cant adopt a child
-cant opened a bank account as a couple (though i was lucky to find a bank that allows us even if im a tourist but normally they dont allow it)
-plus social perceptive and religious stigma of being in a same sex relationship

Now you tell me, how can we combine our affairs if the host country does not recognize the relatioship itself? How can we document our affairs if this affairs are being asked by CIC? Can we just say "oh we love each other and we are in Common law for a year." Of course we have to prove it. Does relatives testimony enough? Do we need to rent house for a year even if she owns a house? CIC may say "Why only common law for 1 year why not 2 or 3" can we say we only do it to satisfy you guys.

CIC will review the reasons why we cant do spousal or common law. Again their job is to check if this is not a relationship for convenience. So dont say that being genuine is irrelevant of course it will always be relevant whether couple will apply for spousal, common law or conjugal.

Despite the hardships you mention about trying to live common law in the phillipines it is still technically possible. Therefore you do not qualify as conjugal. I know you do not agree but that will not change CIC.

 

[canadalover4987]

That is up to CIC. Several rejected TRVs to countries that allow same-sex marriage, will certainly help to prove the barrier here. Hopefully it is sufficient for CIC.

I think its enough proof that there is immigration barrier. I dont think applying another trv in Canada will help as it may sound like desparate move.

However as you stated, there are numerous reasons why living together there can be difficult, which the visa officer would consider. Philippines is one of the most common places for conjugal apps, so I'm sure the visa officers are aware of everything you mentioned.

I definitely agree. I stated in my cover letter the compelling reasons why we cant get married or being in a common law.

If the visa officer does not agree with the legal/immigration barrier to marriage/common-law, the app will stop processing right there regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not. This is similar to a common-law app, if the visa officer feels there is insufficient evidence to prove 12 months of cohabitation, they will reject the app regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not.

Can you support this claim in the CIC manual? I dont remember reading it somewhere.

As you seem concerned about possible rejection of the app, I am trying to explain to you why so many conjugal apps are in fact refused (which hopefully doesn't happen to yours) whether you agree with the reasons or not. There are many cases of conjugal apps that went to appeals, all documented on the CanLII site.

Ofcourse i am concern about the possible rejection just like your concern when you applied the first time for your partner. I think its always nice to have a back up plan and i would like to believe that CIC is not discriminatory towards same sex couples. Id like to believe that sponsoring my partner in anyways is not only for rich and influential people. I would assume that CIC will give me a clear and legal reason why they will deny my application (which i hope not). I am thinking hiring an immigration lawyer to review if appeal is worth waiting for or not or need to re-apply.

Can you send me the link of CanLII site? This will help me decide my next move if our application is refuse.

 

[canadalover4987]

Despite the hardships you mention about trying to live common law in the phillipines it is still technically possible. Therefore you do not qualify as conjugal. I know you do not agree but that will not change CIC.

How can that be "tehcnically possible" if those compelling evidences being ask by CIC are not possible. I need you to support your statement.

Are you a filipino or your partner a filipino? The arguement is what should i do if my conjugal application is denied. Im not asking if im qualified as conjugal or not.

 

[Buletruck]

Having gone through a common law application and being approved, I can vouch for Rob_TO's point of view. We had considered trying conjugal initially (Indonesian spouse, Christian/Muslim mix, very conservative location in the country) due to what we felt were barriers to our relationship being considered common law. We relocated to a slightly less conservative location, but could not open joint accounts/leases/utilities etc. and only managed to stay together, providing proof through pictures. Work also required me to move from Indonesia to several other countries in the region where common law is not recognized (and in many cases frowned upon). She travelled with me on her visa free passport in the region, only taking breaks in our relationship to leave the country and re-enter a few days later, again with the proof being pictures and travel documents that coincided with us being in country together. We were successful as common law, despite whether the countries we were in recognized it or not. It's the Canadian Governments interpretation of common law that counts.

How can that be "tehcnically possible" if those compelling evidences being ask by CIC are not possible. I need you to support your statement.

Same sex marriages are available in Thailand, for which neither of you require a visa, so there is no barrier to marriage, making conjugal difficult to prove.