What does a couple do if...

[gongdi]

I was wondering what a Canadian/non-visa exempt national couple is expected to do if the sponsorship to Canada is denied? It's unreasonable to assume that the Canadian could easily get a visa (to the non-visa exempt country) for every year for the rest of his/her life. How many times can you appeal a denied sponsorship? In the case of an appeal, what happens? Must you just pile on more evidence on the legitimacy of your relationship, do you claim bias or do you bring the appeal to a lawyer?

 

[gongdi]

Right now we are in the waiting process for sponsorship but am curious to know what to do in a worst case scenario...

 

[amikety]

It depends on your case. Some people appeal. Some people wait a year and re-apply. Some people give up on Canada and move to their spouse's country instead.

Appeal times can be very long just to have your appeal heard. It depends on your city. If you go through a fast VO, sometimes it can be better to go live together in the other country for 1 year, then re-apply rather than wait for the appeal court.

The going to live together in the foreign country and re-applying is popular with failed Inland applicants. They then file as "Outland" after a year or so. How much time they decide to wait is up to them.

 

[cranberries]

I was wondering what a Canadian/non-visa exempt national couple is expected to do if the sponsorship to Canada is denied? It's unreasonable to assume that the Canadian could easily get a visa (to the non-visa exempt country) for every year for the rest of his/her life. How many times can you appeal a denied sponsorship? In the case of an appeal, what happens? Must you just pile on more evidence on the legitimacy of your relationship, do you claim bias or do you bring the appeal to a lawyer?

all i know is appeals are expensive and a lengthy...Don't attract negative energy...if i were in your shoes i'd cross the bridge when i get there, for now, try to think positive no matter how hard it is.

 

[ACS]

I thought the CIC website says that you cannot appeal a refusal if it was an Inland Application?

 

[amikety]

I thought the CIC website says that you cannot appeal a refusal if it was an Inland Application?

You can apply for a Judicial Review if the case was mishandled. That would be something serious, not the usual type of refusal.

I believe that's why most Inland refusals move to Outland for their second attempt. You can re-apply.

 

[ACS]

You can apply for a Judicial Review if the case was mishandled. That would be something serious, not the usual type of refusal.

I believe that's why most Inland refusals move to Outland for their second attempt. You can re-apply.

If you are refused inland, do they come to physically remove the applicant from the country???

My husband came on a visitor visa, and we decided to stay (we applied for an extension, but they apparently lost it, though we have the receipt and confirmation that they received it), so technically he’s on Implied Status.

Our 2.5 year old son was born here….do they just expect you to pick up your whole life and your whole family and move?!?

Or can you apply for Outland PR while staying IN Canada? If my husband leaves Canada, it’s unlikely he’d get back in on a Visitor Visa, since the last one was overstayed….

 

[amikety]

If you are refused inland, do they come to physically remove the applicant from the country???

My husband came on a visitor visa, and we decided to stay (we applied for an extension, but they apparently lost it, though we have the receipt and confirmation that they received it), so technically he's on Implied Status.

Our 2.5 year old son was born here....do they just expect you to pick up your whole life and your whole family and move?!?

Or can you apply for Outland PR while staying IN Canada? If my husband leaves Canada, it's unlikely he'd get back in on a Visitor Visa, since the last one was overstayed....

Well, you can apply Outland even if you are in Canada. (I did.) However, if you're refused Inland, you can pretty much guarantee an interview. It will be outside Canada, usually in the home country of the applicant. For example, if I had an interview, I would've had to travel either to L. A. or New York. Now, if the applicant was refused Inland, chances are, they will have a tough time getting back into Canada, especially as a visitor. (Student or worker may be more successful.)

Will they hunt you down and deport you? Well, they have your address now. They will send you a departure notice, then a deportation notice. Ignoring it can make the situation worse.

Children don't play much of a role in determining if a relationship is genuine. Why? Because two people can produce a child without being in a relationship. However, if you were to fight a removal order (very costly), the well being a child may be taken into consideration, but no guarantees.

Here's the thing - when the applicant entered Canada originally, they entered knowing they have no legal right to remain permanently. Unless you are landing as a PR or entering as a citizen, you aren't guaranteed to stay in Canada. The way CIC looks at it - if you made choices (such as getting married to a Canadian, having children in Canada) those were your choices. You have to be responsible for your choices. CIC cannot be responsible for your actions/choices. Now the reality is, yeah, it's incredibly hard on some families. There are people who have made their choice to leave their children in Canada and go live outside Canada with their spouse.

I am not trying to make a case either way. I don't doubt the genuine relationship of 99% of the users on this forum (and there's only a few really obvious ones I suspect) but it's also not my job to make judgements. It is CIC's job to make these judgments.

A lot of people only see immigration from their point of view. They forget that to CIC, they are a stranger. They forget CIC sees wild fraud cases, far beyond anything you can imagine. A lot of people get offended, genuinely offended, when they find out children don't guarantee a genuine relationship and PR. I mean, how could CIC doubt their relationship is real if they have a baby together? They don't know about the cases where women get pregnant just to try to convince CIC the relationship is real. A lot of genuine applicants think of the world in their good intentions and don't dig under to see what the scammers do. Scammers will do just about anything and they don't care who they hurt or cheat.

So be mad at the scammers. They are the ones that really makes this suck for the rest of us.

 

[ACS]

Yes, I'm sure some people are that sketchy to even have kids to get them into a country...what a shame, I feel bad for those poor kids...

I'm not too worried on being approved over the genuine-ness of our relationship...we have known each other 7.5 years, been together 6.5 years and married for 4. Lots of pics (with friends and family), phone records (going back 7 years), bank statements, etc.

The part I'm worried about is my husbands record in the USA...he crossed the border from Canada to the USA illegally to see his mother shortly before I met him, did 3 months in jail (debt to society "Paid in full") and was ordered to leave the USA voluntairly - which he did.

I called CIC 2 seprate times, and got the same answer, to Apply for Criminal Rehabilitation with the For Information Only box checked at the same time as we send in our PR....which we did. Clearly what he did is not a threat to Canadian security in any way, it was a bad choice he made when he was younger. But those are the only grounds I can think of, on which they could conceiveably not approve our case...just hope the CIC call centre reps info was correct...they worry me sometimes, as I find it rather amazing how the same question can often get so many different replies...lol

 

[amikety]

Yes, I'm sure some people are that sketchy to even have kids to get them into a country...what a shame, I feel bad for those poor kids...

I'm not too worried on being approved over the genuine-ness of our relationship...we have known each other 7.5 years, been together 6.5 years and married for 4. Lots of pics (with friends and family), phone records (going back 7 years), bank statements, etc.

The part I'm worried about is my husbands record in the USA...he crossed the border from Canada to the USA illegally to see his mother shortly before I met him, did 3 months in jail (debt to society "Paid in full") and was ordered to leave the USA voluntairly - which he did.

I called CIC 2 seprate times, and got the same answer, to Apply for Criminal Rehabilitation with the For Information Only box checked at the same time as we send in our PR....which we did. Clearly what he did is not a threat to Canadian security in any way, it was a bad choice he made when he was younger. But those are the only grounds I can think of, on which they could conceiveably not approve our case...just hope the CIC call centre reps info was correct...they worry me sometimes, as I find it rather amazing how the same question can often get so many different replies...lol

Well, if he's refused for criminality, appealing wouldn't help much anyway. :/

As far as his past mistakes:

1) Canada won't care about his illegal crossing because if he's a PR, it won't happen anymore. They also don't care about overstays either. The only time CIC cares is if you apply for temporary status. Since PR is permanent, it won't matter much.

2) The conviction - is the crime he committed worth 10 years in Canadian jail? Or against a family member (I. e., domestic assault)? Those are the only two things I would be seriously worried about. (Unless he was a warlord or ran a criminal empire, but I think he'd get more than 3 months for that.... )

The good news is - IF there are questions, CIC will contact you first. If there is something on his record, they will ask for an explanation if they need one. If they aren't certain of your genuine relationship, they will call an interview. They will give you a chance to prepared and address their concerns. In that aspect, CIC is quite fair. IF something does happen, then you order case notes: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-atip.asp

But don't worry about it right now. And I agree with you about the kids - but hey, some women here get pregnant by a "rich" guy just to get his child support... so having kids for the wrong reasons happens all over the world :/ My husband has a good job and he's had to run away from a few that wanted to have his baby right away, but weren't interested in getting a job....

 

[ACS]

Well, if he's refused for criminality, appealing wouldn't help much anyway. :/

As far as his past mistakes:

1) Canada won't care about his illegal crossing because if he's a PR, it won't happen anymore. They also don't care about overstays either. The only time CIC cares is if you apply for temporary status. Since PR is permanent, it won't matter much.

2) The conviction - is the crime he committed worth 10 years in Canadian jail? Or against a family member (I. e., domestic assault)? Those are the only two things I would be seriously worried about. (Unless he was a warlord or ran a criminal empire, but I think he'd get more than 3 months for that.... )

The good news is - IF there are questions, CIC will contact you first. If there is something on his record, they will ask for an explanation if they need one. If they aren't certain of your genuine relationship, they will call an interview. They will give you a chance to prepared and address their concerns. In that aspect, CIC is quite fair. IF something does happen, then you order case notes: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-atip.asp

But don't worry about it right now. And I agree with you about the kids - but hey, some women here get pregnant by a "rich" guy just to get his child support... so having kids for the wrong reasons happens all over the world :/ My husband has a good job and he's had to run away from a few that wanted to have his baby right away, but weren't interested in getting a job....

Well that doesn't sound like such bad news....There is DEFINITELY nothing else he's done besides cross the border to see his mom when she was having a rough time. But he did get 3 months in jail for that, and it's on the FBI check. We explained it thoroughly, and we also sent in the Criminal Rehabilitation with For Info Only box checked as the CIC Call Centre Reps told us to.

Sometimes there is conflicting info in the CIC written instructions and what the CIC Call Centre Reps instruct you to do. But we took the chance and sent it in, because we don't want to leave it any longer, and can't really afford a lawyer. I am working 2 jobs until he (hopefully) gets the Open Ended Work Permit. At least he's home to watch our son and cut out daycare costs!! Plus he's the better chef and cleaner than me....lol.

I can't imagine the "deportable alien" and "illegal entry" convictions he got from that one thing would be worth more than 10 years here??!? If it's only worth 3 months in the US...

We are hoping that the obvious genuineness of our relationship, due to the length and many years we have lived together will outweigh this one event. He is 6 years older than me, not too bad an age difference (and isn't the concern usually if the woman is older?)

Only other problems, I was married once before for a short time when I was pretty young, and lived out of the country, and I did apply for my 1st husband to come to Canada. He turned out to be abusive so we divorced and I cancelled that Application before he was approved. So he never came here. But with my current relationship we knew each other 1 year before we started dating, and 3 years before we got married....

And we did check off on the application for Visitor Visa,(for which my husband was approved and is now here) that he had no Criminal Convictions, because the officers in the USA said it would be off his record in 5 years, and we were past that time period. But the FBI check showed it was still there......

Thanks so much for your input!!

 

[amikety]

I wouldn't worry about the overstay whatsoever. Sorry, I thought there were two separate incidents, but I was wrong

I don't think CIC call centre agents get much training. Then they don't know how to do their job, which isn't fair to them or us. However, call centers general rule is - the more training, the higher the pay. Plus call centers tend to have a high turn over rate, so the power to be don't like to spend a lot of money on training new employees.


Age difference only matters is certain situations. I don't think anyone will care your husband is 6 years older than you. In some cultures, they may be interested if you were six years older than him. The real issue CIC has is when the man is from a culture/religion/ethnic group where child bearing is extremely important and the woman is outside child bearing years. For example, the Catholic church teaches that children are the ultimate symbol of love and devotion in a marriage. So if my Catholic friend is 26 and he marries a 56 year old woman, CIC may question "why" if he's very religious.

There is also a concern with one spouse that is very young and one that is much older just for the sake of is the younger person (being the applicant) truly in love with the older person (the sponsor) or are they using that person to get into Canada? Once again, a lot of it depends on the culture of the two people. The ones that are looked at hardest are the younger applicants that come from countries with a history of fraudulent marriages. This, of course, doesn't mean all May-December romances involving a younger spouse from that country are fake, but it does mean CIC has gotten a lot of complaints from sponsors and/or deported people for fraud. It does make it harder for genuine couples - something I hate. I can't stand getting punished for other people's bad deeds.

I have a friend in Calgary that has a similar story to you regarding her first marriage. She has successfully sponsored her second husband to Canada. So it definitely can be done. Hopefully you highlighted the fact you dated for 3 years before getting marriage. That alone should tell CIC a lot. If you have an interview, your first marriage will probably come up, so you and your husband should be prepared to discuss it. If your husband is from a religion or culture that looks down upon divorced women, he should be prepared to discuss why he feels it's okay to marry you. (My very religious Catholic friend would have to do the same thing because Catholics don't believe in divorce. The IO would ask "Since you are a religious Catholic, why did you want to marry a divorced woman?") However, if he's from a culture where divorce is acceptable, then he will just need to know the basic details like how long you were married.

If and when it becomes relevant, PM me and I'll see if I can get my friend to talk to you and give you some advice regarding your first marriage at an interview.