URGENT EXPERT ADVICE NEEDED: Can a SW move freely from Quebec to Ontario?

[JackH]

Hello everyone.

I have seen a similar question posted on many forums but, somehow, different people seem to have different answers. Here it goes:

I have been accepted as a Skilled Worker. I had originally applied to Quebec (got a CSQ) and landed recently in Quebec with the intention of settling there. I gave a relative's Quebec address and received my PR card and my SIN. I did not get a Health card.

I then left Canada to finish some business for 3 months, and will now be going back for good.

In the mean time, I have tried to apply to jobs online, and it appears as though Ontario has 3 times more job opportunities as Quebec and that the jobs are better paid.

I would like to know if I can just move to Ontario and search for job opportunities there, or if I am obligated to remain in Quebec for some period of time.

Thank you

 

[scylla]

There's no black and white answer.

Since you received PR through the QSW program, you are supposed to settle in Quebec.

As of now, nothing is being done / no actions are being taken when someone who was accepted as an immigrant through QSW moves to a different province soon after landing. However once in a while, there is talk that the government may start tracking this and possibly doing something about it.

If I were in your shoes, I would stay in Quebec for six months and try my best to find a job there. If you can't find a job in Quebec after six months, go ahead and move to a different province. If you've spent six months in Quebec and tried to find a job there, then I don't think anyone will be able to accuse you of not trying in the future.

 

[JackH]

What you say makes perfect sense Scylla, but I investigated the matter further and a Canadian PR does give you the right to live and work anywhere in Canada. That is a legal right. What is mind-boggling is that the Canadian Government could then try to find some loophole to strip a resident of his residence permit after he (in my case) has spent 6 years (!) waiting for his immigration visa to be approved. I kid you not: 6 years! I would've liked to think that going the Quebec route had sped-up the process but apparently not.

I could of course settle in Quebec for a few months, but that would mean registering my kids in a Quebec school and trying to find some measly job on the Quebec market (the career prospects look dismal there). So that would mean committing to much more than just a few months.

A lot happens in 6 years. I was doing ok 6 years ago in my job but doing extremely well 6 years later. Quebec was a promising job market 6 years ago and is now on track to become the poorest of Canadian provinces because of appallingly bad governance. 6 years ago the iPhone had not yet been released

But I digress. Thank you for the help. I appreciate it.

 

[Leon]

What you say makes perfect sense Scylla, but I investigated the matter further and a Canadian PR does give you the right to live and work anywhere in Canada. That is a legal right. What is mind-boggling is that the Canadian Government could then try to find some loophole to strip a resident of his residence permit after he (in my case) has spent 6 years (!) waiting for his immigration visa to be approved. I kid you not: 6 years! I would've liked to think that going the Quebec route had sped-up the process but apparently not.

It's not the Canadian government, it's the provinces. Your application wasted Quebec resources and therefore they would like you to stay in Quebec rather than use their immigration program as means to go to some other province. It's not a contest about who waited the longest. Applying through Quebec could mean that you qualified when you may not have qualified under any other program.

It's the same with any province. If you enter through SINP or MPNP or AINP, they'd all like you to stay in their province if you used their immigration program. However, there is nothing much they can do about you leaving.

Ok, if you land in Canada firmly stating that you are not planning on settling in your PNP province, then they can stop your PR because the criteria of the immigration program you applied under was that you were going to settle in that province. However, if you already landed, as long as you had intentions to live in your PNP province when you landed, there is not much they can really do to you. If they ever ask you about it, you make it clear that you applied and landed with the intention of settling in Quebec and during your job search over the next 3 months, your intentions changed because you saw that you had better job opportunities elsewhere.

 

[scylla]

What Leon said.

By applying through the QSW program you made a commitment to settle in Canada. That was one of the conditions of qualifying. If you are now want to break that condition, it shouldn't come as a surprise this could create problems for your PR status.

Again, your best bet is to spend a few months trying to establish yourself in Quebec (I would give it six). After that, I think you're perfectly safe to move.

 

[JackH]

Scylla, Leon, I really appreciate your input and can understand how the matter can be perceived like a grey area. Yet, in the eyes of the law, there can only be one correct answer. I will discuss the matter with a couple of immigration attorneys and post their advice within the next couple of weeks. I am really bent on knowing what my rights are as well as my obligations.

Yet, for the sake of discussion, please allow me to make this analysis:

First, let me quote the CIC website:

"What permanent residents can do:

As a permanent resident, you and your dependants have the right:
[...]
. To live, work or study anywhere in Canada. [...]"

And therefore, that right is indisputably given to every PR holder.

What remains is to not have one's PR revoked for misrepresenting one's self:

A Quebec skilled worker will have signed a "Declaration of Intent to Reside in Quebec", which is Schedule 5 of form Imm0008. I do not remember signing it because it was so long ago, but, for argument's sake, let us assume that I did. The declaration in Schedule 5 is limited to one sentence: "I declare that my family members and I intend to live in the Province of Quebec.".

I had every intention of living in Quebec at the time of signing. It is a beautiful province and I have relatives there. I also did have that intention at the time of landing. What you realise though is that the job market is not very active there, while it is in the province of Ontario for instance. It does not take 6 months or a year to realize this fact. It barely takes a few weeks and some online research.

In fact, while my desire to move out is motivated by economic well-being, there could be a dozen other reasons. Here is a silly but still relevant one: A Quebec skilled worker could very well have had the intent of living in Quebec and landed there and not have liked Quebec's weather. He/she could then try to move to a warmer province. That would not change the fact that, originally, they had a perfectly legitimate intent but changed their minds after experiencing the real thing.

And therefore, how can you prove that one did not have the intent of living in Quebec? Who bears the burden of proof? It is an exercise in futility. Perhaps that is why noone got their PR revoked over this so far. And perhaps this is why some Operational Bulletins state that individuals who declare at the Port of Entry (POE) that they do not wish to settle in the province in which they were nominated may not be given PR status... It is probably because, once the PR is issued, there is not much that the government can do to restrict mobility.

 

[Leon]

Perhaps that is why noone got their PR revoked over this so far. And perhaps this is why some Operational Bulletins state that individuals who declare at the Port of Entry (POE) that they do not wish to settle in the province in which they were nominated may not be given PR status... It is probably because, once the PR is issued, there is not much that the government can do to restrict mobility.

That's what I said. There isn't really much they can do to you and so far I have not heard of anyone losing their PR over this. That doesn't mean that it can't happen in the future that they start going after people and accusing them of misrepresentation but if that happens, I think they will not start with people who moved to another province a couple of months after getting their PR, they will start with the ones who moved in the first week or so.

I have recently heard that IO's have told people in some cases that they must stay in their PNP province for 3 years. As far as I know, this is BS. There is no such rule as far as I know. However, someone recently pointed out a page on the CIC site where it says that PNP PR's will be tracked for 3 years after landing. After reading it, it seemed to me that it would be more for the statistics than anything else.

 

[Pippin]

I don't say this to ruffle feathers, but the requirements to qualify for immigration to Quebec are much easier than the rest of Canada. For the sake of argument, would you have qualified in the other FSW stream and if so why did you choose to limit yourself to one Province?

 

[JackH]

Yes Pippin, I would have qualified for the other FSW program, and with flying colors ... And judging by how long it took me to get my immigration visa processed, I have not saved any time by choosing the first route.

I knew nothing about Canadian immigration when I applied. My attorney did not even explain. He took it for granted that since French is my first language and my relatives are in Quebec, I should apply under the QSW program. That is how it was done. At the time, it also seemed logical to me to settle in Quebec, and when I landed in Quebec, close to 7 years later, I still wanted to settle there. But trying to find an executive-level position in a market that is, at the moment, doing so poorly is extremely tough.

Even if I did go for lower-level positions, things are not as easy as one would think. For the sake of argument, would Starbucks hire someone with 20 years of international experience, 5 of which have been in top executive positions as a cashier? No, they would pick a student and they would be right to do so. Even for mid-level management positions, companies would think twice: Why would they take a man with 20 years of experience for a position that requires 6 or 7 years of experience?

What I need is a buoyant job market to have a chance of putting my career back on track after interrupting it back home. And Quebec in 2013 is unfortunately not that market anymore. Sad but true.

 

[Pippin]

You know, I hesitated to ask, but am now glad I did. If you gave that explanation when (IF) asked, especially with evidence of being unable to get work in Quebec, I don't know how anyone could fault you. However, I would certainly keep a file on any attempts to get work in Quebec "just in case" the question arises in the future. Good luck.

 

[JackH]

Thank you Pippin. And thanks to everyone who replied.

I will be contacting a couple of attorneys to try to get a legal perspective. I will post the advice that I will get within the next couple of weeks.

 

[scylla]

I absolutely agree with you that on paper, there should be nothing wrong with moving.

However I'm also aware of how much control / power the province of Quebec is given at times - way more than any other province. (Notice how they are the only province that has been magically allowed to opt out of the Federal skilled worker program and have their own special rules / requirements for many other immigration processes - i.e. CSQ?) That's why I would go the safe route and have the "just in case" evidence (as Pippin mentioned) to prove that you did in fact make a real effort to establish yourself where you said you would.

 

[JackH]

Ok. Here is the latest news:

I contacted the Quebec Ministry of Immigration on +1 877 864 9191 and described my case. I let them know that I landed very recently in Quebec, but quickly realized that there are very few job opportunities for people with my career profile, and that I would like to move out of Quebec and look for employment elsewhere. The call agent who replied said, very categorically, that with my Canadian PR, I am free to get settled and seek employment anywhere in Canada, and that noone was obligating me to stay in Quebec.

I also contacted an immigration lawyer in Toronto. His reply to my query was a one-liner: "There is no requirement for you to remain in Quebec, you can relocate to any part of the country."