TRV general questions - Timing and Relationship proof?

[S_and_C]

Hi everyone,

I have a few questions related to a TRV application. Just to summarize our situation, my wife and I were married back in April 2016 in the Philippines, we've been together for 1.5 years and for most of that time in a long distance relationship. I have visited the Philippines 3 times in the past year, but my wife has not been able to visit me in Canada due to 2 visitor visa refusals (prior to being married). We have just submitted our permanent residence application (CPC received it from FedEx on Monday, June 13), and we made sure it is complete with all the required supporting documents and a healthy amount of relationship proof. We are hoping for fast processing, but know it will likely take months (13 months on CIC website, but it might be half that in the best case).

So, what we want to do is apply for a visitor visa again so that she can come visit me here in the meantime. I've been going through a lot of the posts here in the forum and have accumulated a number of good tips already, but I have a few other questions that I'm not sure have been addressed here:

1. Timing of the TRV application: I was going to include the UCI number of the PRV in my invitation letter once we get the AOR (to prove we have a permanent residence application in progress). I have also read that it's best to wait for the sponsor approval (SA), but that's likely 2 months away (CIC Site says 43 days, which I assume is calendar days). I will be including a lot of the same important documents we have in our PRV such as my employment history, our marriage/police/medical certificates etc... The question is, does it matter if we wait until SA or not? I'm 99.9% confident I will pass sponsor approval, so will they see from the extra documentation we provide that this will be the case?

2. Relationship proof in TRV? I of course provided a lot of relationship proof in the PRV, but I am unsure if I need to provide some proof beyond our marriage certificate and the fact we have a spousal sponsorship application in progress (which already has sufficient proof of relationship). I wouldn't want to overwhelm the visa officer with a huge TRV application. TRVs are processed much faster, so while these documents may help they won't do the same background checks as a PRV which makes the processing longer. The CIC site says processing for TRVs from Philippines takes 10 days, but is typically shorter if we file by paper in the VFS Global office in the Philippines.

3. Airline bookings. I've read both sides to this, i.e. you should just include a tentative booking / itinerary as the expense of actually booking the ticket is delayed until it is confirmed that the TRV is received. On the flip side, some have said it is best to book the flight and show the receipt saying it is paid to make a stronger TRV application, rather than a simple itinerary.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
S_and_C

 

[Jalex23]

1. Timing of the TRV application: I was going to include the UCI number of the PRV in my invitation letter once we get the AOR (to prove we have a permanent residence application in progress). I have also read that it's best to wait for the sponsor approval (SA), but that's likely 2 months away (CIC Site says 43 days, which I assume is calendar days). I will be including a lot of the same important documents we have in our PRV such as my employment history, our marriage/police/medical certificates etc... The question is, does it matter if we wait until SA or not? I'm 99.9% confident I will pass sponsor approval, so will they see from the extra documentation we provide that this will be the case?

What is a PRV?

Anyway TRVs and PR applications are not really related in that sense, so waiting for something to happen (SA, AOR) is quite irrelevant.

In fact the more stages she passes, the more difficult it is to have a TRV as it becomes quite evident that she is not coming to visit, but to live with you.

2. Relationship proof in TRV? I of course provided a lot of relationship proof in the PRV, but I am unsure if I need to provide some proof beyond our marriage certificate and the fact we have a spousal sponsorship application in progress (which already has sufficient proof of relationship). I wouldn't want to overwhelm the visa officer with a huge TRV application. TRVs are processed much faster, so while these documents may help they won't do the same background checks as a PRV which makes the processing longer. The CIC site says processing for TRVs from Philippines takes 10 days, but is typically shorter if we file by paper in the VFS Global office in the Philippines.

Marriage certificate is fine.

3. Airline bookings. I've read both sides to this, i.e. you should just include a tentative booking / itinerary as the expense of actually booking the ticket is delayed until it is confirmed that the TRV is received. On the flip side, some have said it is best to book the flight and show the receipt saying it is paid to make a stronger TRV application, rather than a simple itinerary.

I don't get the "flip side"... both are true and not mutually exclusive. You need to send an itinerary, it is better to send an itinerary that is backed up with evidence, the most solid evidence of it would be airtickets (book in in hotels, etc).

 

[S_and_C]

What is a PRV?

Permanent Residence Visa, I thought PRV was the standard acronym.

Anyway TRVs and PR applications are not really related in that sense, so waiting for something to happen (SA, AOR) is quite irrelevant.

At the very least I would need an AOR to get my UCI number so that if they ever wanted to check, they could. It seems everything stated anywhere on the application or letters should be backed up with proof. I guess I could consider sending them a photocopy of the FedEx receipt and delivery confirmation that proves we sent one, even though the file number is not known yet...

In fact the more stages she passes, the more difficult it is to have a TRV as it becomes quite evident that she is not coming to visit, but to live with you.

From my experience with our 2 first refusals, it "should" have been more difficult to get a TRV "before" getting married as the scrutiny was squarely on her and not me. Now that we are married, the financial aspect shouldn't matter anymore as our incomes are considered to be combined, so from that standpoint it removes one of the previous refusal reasons. Though I still agree that the main thing we need to focus on is proving strong ties to her home country are stronger than being married to me.

I don't get the "flip side"... both are true and not mutually exclusive. You need to send an itinerary, it is better to send an itinerary that is backed up with evidence, the most solid evidence of it would be airtickets (book in in hotels, etc).

I don't remember where I read this, but I had the impression that people should hold off on purchasing tickets until your visa is approved as most airline tickets are not refundable. I suppose a refundable ticket can be purchased depending on the airline (but it's more expensive) and then refunded after the visa is acquired, and then later rebook a cheaper flight. The thing is, in our last TRV we submitted the receipt for a fully booked return ticket, but then the visa was refused and I was only able to get a partial refund. So in our case, having the fully booked ticket didn't help and caused me to lose $700.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Jalex23]

Permanent Residence Visa, I thought PRV was the standard acronym.

Well... "permanent resident visa" is quite an ambiguos term. There is no such thing as that. When the PR is succesful then she will get an Immigrant Visa and a Confirmation of Permanent Residency. Son unless you are referring to the Immigration Visa as a PRV then I wouldn't know what you are referring to.

At the very least I would need an AOR to get my UCI number so that if they ever wanted to check, they could. It seems everything stated anywhere on the application or letters should be backed up with proof. I guess I could consider sending them a photocopy of the FedEx receipt and delivery confirmation that proves we sent one, even though the file number is not known yet...

Well yes, but still TRVs and PRs are not related... maybe you want to send the UCI to show and support your purpose of visit? or that you are doing everything by the book? Dunno but it is not of much relevance to show it. Yes it helps to send evidence of everything you are saying but in this case it doesn't do much of a difference.

From my experience with our 2 first refusals, it "should" have been more difficult to get a TRV "before" getting married as the scrutiny was squarely on her and not me. Now that we are married, the financial aspect shouldn't matter anymore as our incomes are considered to be combined, so from that standpoint it removes one of the previous refusal reasons. Though I still agree that the main thing we need to focus on is proving strong ties to her home country are stronger than being married to me.

Yes, in that sense it is true... but then it adds a problem, which is that now she has to prove that even though her husband is Canadian and she wants to immigrate to Canada, she will be leaving at the end of her stay. That is harder to prove than just showing enough funds.

Her ties to Canada have become more evident and stronger. If salaries are considered one (sigh) then that worsens the situation as she doesn't have a real reason to go back to her country of residency.

I don't remember where I read this, but I had the impression that people should hold off on purchasing tickets until your visa is approved as most airline tickets are not refundable. I suppose a refundable ticket can be purchased depending on the airline (but it's more expensive) and then refunded after the visa is acquired, and then later rebook a cheaper flight. The thing is, in our last TRV we submitted the receipt for a fully booked return ticket, but then the visa was refused and I was only able to get a partial refund. So in our case, having the fully booked ticket didn't help and caused me to lose $700.

That is a risk you have to consider. Is the advantage of showing air tickets worth the money I'm putting in? It surely makes the application stronger but it won't compensate for weaker points in the application (ties for example).

IMO yo should focus on ties... tickets do bring an advantage but it is minimal and not worth the risk of losing money.

 

[docsazm]

Hello,
I am a student and applying TRV for my spouse..
What to mention in TRV form in column, name n address of person or institute for visit
It will be my name if they are accompanying me?Huh?
Kindly advice

 

[Jalex23]

Hello,
I am a student and applying TRV for my spouse..
What to mention in TRV form in column, name n address of person or institute for visit
It will be my name if they are accompanying me?Huh?
Kindly advice

yes

 

[docsazm]

Thanks .
And duration of visit for family will be the period of my study.i.e 2 yrs ...?

 

[Jalex23]

Thanks .
And duration of visit for family will be the period of my study.i.e 2 yrs ...?

You can't ask for a TRV for two years... it has a maximum of 6 months and requesting that, unless backed up by very obvious solid reasons, will be refused.

If you want your wife to be with you for your whole stay then you need to apply for an spousal open work permit.

Please post this in the relevant forum:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/international-students-b2.0/

 

[S_and_C]

Thanks Jalex23 for your replies.

Most of where I'm coming from is the idea of dual intent (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/visa/dual.asp) where my wife wants to immigrate, but we also want her to be able to visit in the meantime. Right in that link it basically says they can't refuse simply based on dual intent, but the onus is on the applicant to fully explain and prove and "convince" the visa officer that they will leave at the end of the stay. Operative word being "convince". That is a whole other discussion, for example, why even allow TRV extensions when they state on the other hand that you must leave at the end of your stay? Similarly, they allow people to apply for their PR inland who are already here on a study, work or visitor visa which again are supposed to be limited in duration. The temporary nature of a visitor visa just doesn't hold water, and the actual duration of visit asked for on the application doesn't matter as most find that they get the 6 month block of time when they arrive.

So really in the end the main focus is on proving strong ties for a TRV. If having the UCI number is irrelevant then there's nothing stopping us from applying anytime for a TRV, as long as we have sufficient proof. Most of my effort so far has been to have a really detailed and convincing Letter of Invitation, as well as purpose of travel with a detailed itinerary. I'll continue refining this as I go until I have a good confidence level for applying.

Thanks again.

 

[docsazm]

You can't ask for a TRV for two years... it has a maximum of 6 months and requesting that, unless backed up by very obvious solid reasons, will be refused.

If you want your wife to be with you for your whole stay then you need to apply for an spousal open work permit.

Please post this in the relevant forum:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/international-students-b2.0/

If I am going on study permit for 2 yrs and requesting TRV for kids, how much duration should I write then?
Going on sp is not a solid reason?
Plz advice what to do?

 

[Jalex23]

Most of where I'm coming from is the idea of dual intent (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/visa/dual.asp) where my wife wants to immigrate, but we also want her to be able to visit in the meantime. Right in that link it basically says they can't refuse simply based on dual intent, but the onus is on the applicant to fully explain and prove and "convince" the visa officer that they will leave at the end of the stay. Operative word being "convince". That is a whole other discussion, for example, why even allow TRV extensions when they state on the other hand that you must leave at the end of your stay? Similarly, they allow people to apply for their PR inland who are already here on a study, work or visitor visa which again are supposed to be limited in duration. The temporary nature of a visitor visa just doesn't hold water, and the actual duration of visit asked for on the application doesn't matter as most find that they get the 6 month block of time when they arrive.

Well yes, this goes deeper into how immigration works and how flexible they are before and after a Visa is given.

True, once in you can abuse the TRV... nothing stops you... but that is a risk Canada is willing to take once you have been assessed.

Canada is a nice country.

So really in the end the main focus is on proving strong ties for a TRV. If having the UCI number is irrelevant then there's nothing stopping us from applying anytime for a TRV, as long as we have sufficient proof. Most of my effort so far has been to have a really detailed and convincing Letter of Invitation, as well as purpose of travel with a detailed itinerary. I'll continue refining this as I go until I have a good confidence level for applying.

Yes. Her main concern is to show home-ties that outweight 1) her husband being Canada 2) her declared interest to immigrate to Canada 3) her main income bieng from a Canadian source.

IMO UCI and flight tickets are little compared to this.

If I am going on study permit for 2 yrs and requesting TRV for kids, how much duration should I write then?
Going on sp is not a solid reason?
Plz advice what to do?

Please post this in the relevant forum:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/international-students-b2.0/

 

[docsazm]

Thanks?

 

[S_and_C]

Well yes, this goes deeper into how immigration works and how flexible they are before and after a Visa is given.

True, once in you can abuse the TRV... nothing stops you... but that is a risk Canada is willing to take once you have been assessed.

Canada is a nice country.

True, but taken from a different perspective, come to Canada on a TRV fully intending to leave at the end of the visit, then changing your mind once you're here that you want to stay longer and applying for an extension, then after a few months go by the COPR is received and then you land officially. It sort of has to be thought of that way because if you tell them you want to "come to be with my husband and wait out my PR application which I know will take months", it's an automatic refusal. So it compels the applicant to "abuse" the system because the rules don't allow spouses to be together. The only definitive option is a PR application which takes months. In my situation, I've been to the Philippines 3 times in the past year, and each time I have to arrange care for my 2 young kids as I'm a full time single parent and I have a full time job. So ideally I want my wife to come visit me here because it's more economical for me, and it's easier on my kids, a fact that I will be adding to my invitation letter.

Yes. Her main concern is to show home-ties that outweight 1) her husband being Canada 2) her declared interest to immigrate to Canada 3) her main income bieng from a Canadian source.

IMO UCI and flight tickets are little compared to this.

Yes, though in reality I don't need to support her or her family, being married implies that our incomes are combined, or that is what I assume the visa officer would think. She is the primary breadwinner for the family so thinking that this also works in our favor as a strong tie.

 

[Jalex23]

True, but taken from a different perspective, come to Canada on a TRV fully intending to leave at the end of the visit, then changing your mind once you're here that you want to stay longer and applying for an extension, then after a few months go by the COPR is received and then you land officially. It sort of has to be thought of that way because if you tell them you want to "come to be with my husband and wait out my PR application which I know will take months", it's an automatic refusal.

No, it isn't. Several cases where there is a PR in process and the purpose is "to wait with my husband for the application to finish" have been given in the past. This is based on a case to case basis and of course those TRVs were given to people where the wife showed they had no need to immigrate.

So it compels the applicant to "abuse" the system because the rules don't allow spouses to be together. The only definitive option is a PR application which takes months.

And it also compels the CIC officer to be tougher on the applicant. It is a vicious circle.

In my situation, I've been to the Philippines 3 times in the past year, and each time I have to arrange care for my 2 young kids as I'm a full time single parent and I have a full time job. So ideally I want my wife to come visit me here because it's more economical for me, and it's easier on my kids, a fact that I will be adding to my invitation letter.

Hopefully you don't mean living... but actually visiting. Make sure that the visit is short (two weeks more or less).

Be careful with the invitation letter. Relationship between Filipino and Canadians of this sort are many times wrongly thought... that she wants to immigrate and you need someone to look after the kids. That is a red flag.

Yes, though in reality I don't need to support her or her family, being married implies that our incomes are combined, or that is what I assume the visa officer would think. She is the primary breadwinner for the family so thinking that this also works in our favor as a strong tie.

No... why would it imply that?... I thought that both incomes were somehow combined... but if a married couple has individual incomes then they are not "considered combined". If you don't have a way to prove they are "combined" then they aren't.

So that works in your favor, as she has her own income. Make sure to attach evidence of all that is HER because that adds to her ties and that she doesn't need to immigrate (which is what you want to show). Also if she is indeed the main bread winner of the family then a solid job that would back up those claims would not be willing to give "vacations" for more than 3 weeks.

 

[S_and_C]

No, it isn't. Several cases where there is a PR in process and the purpose is "to wait with my husband for the application to finish" have been given in the past. This is based on a case to case basis and of course those TRVs were given to people where the wife showed they had no need to immigrate.

This is the opposite of what I've been told. I have spoken to my MPs office a few times and I remember specifically her saying that 98% of spouse visitor visas are rejected primarily because this is the most likely scenario, they want to be together while the PR is processing. Now if they can do it in a month (like a US immigrant on another thread who got his processed in a month through the Ottawa VO), then this would all be a moot point.

Hopefully you don't mean living... but actually visiting. Make sure that the visit is short (two weeks more or less).

Be careful with the invitation letter. Relationship between Filipino and Canadians of this sort are many times wrongly thought... that she wants to immigrate and you need someone to look after the kids. That is a red flag.

Thanks, I plan to reduce it from 4 weeks to 3 so that it's more reasonable. I also put up a separate thread with my current Invitation Letter, so I'll continue to include all the tips I have learned.

No... why would it imply that?... I thought that both incomes were somehow combined... but if a married couple has individual incomes then they are not "considered combined". If you don't have a way to prove they are "combined" then they aren't.

So that works in your favor, as she has her own income. Make sure to attach evidence of all that is HER because that adds to her ties and that she doesn't need to immigrate (which is what you want to show). Also if she is indeed the main bread winner of the family then a solid job that would back up those claims would not be willing to give "vacations" for more than 3 weeks.

The assumption comes from the fact that legally married couples now count their income as combined, CRA does this on tax returns and looks at "family" income and not "individual" income when determining what tax deductions you are eligible for. They've already sent me a letter regarding my Child Tax Benefit saying I'm no longer eligible until they can determine my wife's income, i.e. files a tax return once she is a PR.

I also plan to have another followup chat with my MP to get another perspective, but I thank you for all your insights, it's been a great help.