Telephone Marriage - help needed

[hogaishaadi]

Hello all,

Here is my situation... I went to Pakistan in Aug-Nov 2008, there i came across my distant cousin (now my wife) where we spent some together and i got to know her better (and vice versa) only after coming back to Canada was the topic of marriage raised and then she was brought into the frame of mind and summer of 2009 we got engaged, then dec 2010 we got married... due to new-ish job (6 months in) and other reasons it was not feasible to go back home so resorted to get nikkah done on Phone... i was looking to apply for the sponsorship in march but changed my job and that caused the delay as you need to show proof of work/finance (pay stubs etc), now i am 3 months into the new job... i do talk to her over the phone + we video chat every now and then... (my sis got phone nikah done in 2005 as well, and her hubby is here, and they are alhamdulillah still together)... i haven't been back home since marriage...

now my questions are...

1) are phone nikah's still being accepted by Canada ... i am really getting mixed responses of yes accepted, no not accepted, etc... so do not know what is the real case, my nikkah certificate is from Pakistan and it is registered there, that is telling me that it should be valid by Canadian rules however the over whelming responses of no no are making me a bit nervous...

2) the family/khandaan is/was a bit strict - so no picture or video scenario's were possible and since marrying her was not the purpose/intention of the trip i did not take any pictures/vids with her...

3) wedding being over phone etc and me not having visited back home since marriage (its not easy going every now and then) we do not have any pictures together... will that be any hindrance in my application process...

4) i have heard the application process is taking around 2 yrs now, would i be able to get her a visiting visa or say my parents apply for a visiting visa for her...

5) can she go for a medical before the application/file is started or have to wait for it to be in process first (having a file #)

6) i use calling cards when calling her, what will be a good way to use it as a proof for later on....

any other tips or advises will be greatly appreciated, thank you so much...

 

[doctorkb]

It sounds like you have an uphill battle. To prove that the relationship is genuine and continuing, you should try to find a way of living together, soon!

Otherwise, it really looks no different than a mail-order bride situation.

 

[ditta]

The OP did not mention whether he is a PR or a citizen. if he is a PR, he cannot be out of the country to sponsor her wife, so living together is not an option.
Otherwise I agree, this is a tough case and I do not feel to have enough knowledge to advice on it. You need Leon, rjessome or canadianwoman if you want proper guidance.

 

[doctorkb]

Fair enough, but there are a couple other issues:
1. they haven't been in the same place physically since BEFORE their marriage.
2. they have no photographic (or other concrete) proof that they were ever in the same place physically.

I'm not saying it's not doable, just that it's going to be a FAR stretch (and a LONG wait)...

 

[hogaishaadi]

The OP did not mention whether he is a PR or a citizen. if he is a PR, he cannot be out of the country to sponsor her wife, so living together is not an option.
Otherwise I agree, this is a tough case and I do not feel to have enough knowledge to advice on it. You need Leon, rjessome or canadianwoman if you want proper guidance.

i am citizen... also the user's u mentioned are they just well informed users or does one of them happen to be an immigration lawyer, because I would not mind going that route, as I really do not want to file my case and have it prolonged as it already takes a really long time for Pakistan... so I just want to take the best option for me...

again thank you for the replies...

 

[hogaishaadi]

Fair enough, but there are a couple other issues:
1. they haven't been in the same place physically since BEFORE their marriage.
2. they have no photographic (or other concrete) proof that they were ever in the same place physically.

I'm not saying it's not doable, just that it's going to be a FAR stretch (and a LONG wait)...

actually, i did make a few vids (at weddings) where she was there and in the vids as well, i lost the vids due to a computer crash, but I might be able to get the video of the wedding which will have myself and her in them somewhere, if not together... to show we did meet, i do have my tickets from the visit back home, our families are close (even before marriage)... so my family sure does have pics with her... i have sent her money for which i have reciepts, and she bought computer from it so i will check with her if she kept receipts of that... we had a function here and they had one there at the same time... with video's/pics from the wedding day...

 

[mahmed17]

Assalamu Alaykum, welcome to the wonderful world of Immigration ;D

Firstly, yes phone nikkahs are still being accepted BUT (and this is a big but) they are very strict on them now. You will receive an objection letter that your relationship is not considered genuine as it is not consummated and you will be asked to send updated proofs. This itself will delay the process for about 3 months. If they are satisfied with your proof some people have received visas without ever having lived with their spouses BUT you will definitely need video chat/phone bill/money transfer/emails A LOT of evidence and if they are not satisfied you will get stuck in the interview queue. Some people are waiting for an interview date for more than a year so it's not a pretty place.

I had a phone nikkah in May 2009 and because they were not satisfied they placed our file in the interview queue in June 2010, by December 2010 I was still in that queue with no sign of an end. I visited my husband in December and came back in January and sent them the pictures we took together while I was there, boarding passes etc and allhumdulillah they took our file out of the interview queue and he has gotten his visa now but this was only because the IO had written in the notes "marriage now appears to be consummated". But if you plan to go this route it will be long and can get ugly. If you do not have pics with your wife my advice to you will be to go to Pakistan even for a short visit but take some pics with your and her and the family...and im sorry but the family has to be understanding that otherwise it will be very hard to prove your relationship is genuine.

I hope this has helped a little, you should join the Islamabad thread. I've been on these forums for more than a year and we see these types of cases everyday where people with huge weddings in Pakistan are facing delays so people who get nikkah only will be having an even harder time. Also while your file is in process it will be very hard for your wife to get a visit visa as Pakistan is delaying everything and most people who have tried have been rejected.

Anyway best of wishes and hope that I helped you out, feel free to ask any questions.

 

[hogaishaadi]

Assalamu Alaykum, welcome to the wonderful world of Immigration ;D

Firstly, yes phone nikkahs are still being accepted BUT (and this is a big but) they are very strict on them now. You will receive an objection letter that your relationship is not considered genuine as it is not consummated and you will be asked to send updated proofs. This itself will delay the process for about 3 months. If they are satisfied with your proof some people have received visas without ever having lived with their spouses BUT you will definitely need video chat/phone bill/money transfer/emails A LOT of evidence and if they are not satisfied you will get stuck in the interview queue. Some people are waiting for an interview date for more than a year so it's not a pretty place.

I had a phone nikkah in May 2009 and because they were not satisfied they placed our file in the interview queue in June 2010, by December 2010 I was still in that queue with no sign of an end. I visited my husband in December and came back in January and sent them the pictures we took together while I was there, boarding passes etc and allhumdulillah they took our file out of the interview queue and he has gotten his visa now but this was only because the IO had written in the notes "marriage now appears to be consummated". But if you plan to go this route it will be long and can get ugly. If you do not have pics with your wife my advice to you will be to go to Pakistan even for a short visit but take some pics with your and her and the family...and im sorry but the family has to be understanding that otherwise it will be very hard to prove your relationship is genuine.

I hope this has helped a little, you should join the Islamabad thread. I've been on these forums for more than a year and we see these types of cases everyday where people with huge weddings in Pakistan are facing delays so people who get nikkah only will be having an even harder time. Also while your file is in process it will be very hard for your wife to get a visit visa as Pakistan is delaying everything and most people who have tried have been rejected.

Anyway best of wishes and hope that I helped you out, feel free to ask any questions.

walaikum asalam,

thank you so much for your reply, it surely helped, and i know my biggest weak point is of not having any pictures with her, other than that i have everything else covered... i will prob contact an immigration lawyer, if not end up being in Pak for a week or so (if i am lucky to get time off from my new job) and take a heck a lot of pics with her and send them in...

however, when we fill up the applications, do we have to immediately send in all documentations/evidence/proofs along with them or those can be sent in later?

meaning should i send in my forms now and these pics later, or forms and pics/evidence together to avoid any other messup...

 

[ditta]

Well, some members of this forum are immigration lawyers and consultants. I suggested you certain members you can turn to for a reason- I know one of them for sure is a consultant.

You better submit all your proof and evidence all together with the original application package, especially in your situation. You just weaken your chances and cause even more delays or possible rejection if the application is not well supported. Also keep in mind one thing: you need to show continuity in your relationship, so gather every evidence from now on, keep every little even unimportant thing as you may need to present them in case of an interview which is very likely.

 

[CanPak05]

Same situation for me, conducted telephone nikkah back in 2009 and applied for my wife in March of 2010. Received letter of objection that marriage is not genuine in March of 2011 (12 months since application filed.) My wife and I have submitted all documents in order to prove our relationship (telephone bills, support payments, emails, testimonials). I applied for CIAPs but am waiting for the report due to Canada Post strike, and will plan our next steps accordingly.

It has been a stressfull experience and I also recommend going to Pakistan and getting the pictures and proofs of your relationship by being together. If the CIAPs say marriage is still not genuine or file is in queue for interview, we will make a trip to Pakistan to conduct ruhksati. InshAllah, we pray that will not be the case as we have provided every peice of support I can think of. Wife has completed her remedical, which i hope is a positive towards completion.

My responses to some of your questions, hope they help.

5) As a part of the application preparation, I believe it is now required to have your medical completed prior initially applying. My wife did complete her medical and sent me the Option C paperwork that I submitted with application.

6) I have heard that calling cards are not accepted as valid supporting documents with respect to communication as there is no records proving your numbers being dialed as well as duration of communications. I use a service "call select" which is just under 6cents/min and provides a bill with my number calling my wifes number that are stated on our application.

Good Luck

 

[wes786]

Hello all,

Here is my situation... I went to Pakistan in Aug-Nov 2008, there i came across my distant cousin (now my wife) where we spent some together and i got to know her better (and vice versa) only after coming back to Canada was the topic of marriage raised and then she was brought into the frame of mind and summer of 2009 we got engaged, then dec 2010 we got married... due to new-ish job (6 months in) and other reasons it was not feasible to go back home so resorted to get nikkah done on Phone... i was looking to apply for the sponsorship in march but changed my job and that caused the delay as you need to show proof of work/finance (pay stubs etc), now i am 3 months into the new job... i do talk to her over the phone + we video chat every now and then... (my sis got phone nikah done in 2005 as well, and her hubby is here, and they are alhamdulillah still together)... i haven't been back home since marriage...

now my questions are...

1) are phone nikah's still being accepted by Canada ... i am really getting mixed responses of yes accepted, no not accepted, etc... so do not know what is the real case, my nikkah certificate is from Pakistan and it is registered there, that is telling me that it should be valid by Canadian rules however the over whelming responses of no no are making me a bit nervous...

2) the family/khandaan is/was a bit strict - so no picture or video scenario's were possible and since marrying her was not the purpose/intention of the trip i did not take any pictures/vids with her...

3) wedding being over phone etc and me not having visited back home since marriage (its not easy going every now and then) we do not have any pictures together... will that be any hindrance in my application process...

4) i have heard the application process is taking around 2 yrs now, would i be able to get her a visiting visa or say my parents apply for a visiting visa for her...

5) can she go for a medical before the application/file is started or have to wait for it to be in process first (having a file #)

6) i use calling cards when calling her, what will be a good way to use it as a proof for later on....

any other tips or advises will be greatly appreciated, thank you so much...

Salams and welcome to the board,

So I read alot of comments and advices people are giving you; they are valid and I will just add some more to it. Let me start by telling you that if you plan to hire a lawyer, he/she can't make the process faster. There are alot of experienced people/applicants on this forum who can help you more than the lawyers/consultants can and for free. I know alot of applicants have cancelled their represantatives due to delay in mailing their letters, hiding some request making the case longer to earn more money from their clients(not all are like that but there are alot of them out there). Ok now let me tell you that you are going to face some hardship because if I was looking at your case as an immigration officer I would have doubts about this case. Not to scare you or anything but i am looking at the case from their point of view and it seems to them like you don't have much proof, you weren't even present at the wedding. However, if you can provide enough evidence to convince them that your relatioship is genuine then life will be much easier. You will definately need some pictures to prove your relationship is genuine specially because you didn't have the big normal pakistani wedding/valima. You will need to make a short trip if you can take lots of pictures(and as some suggested that the family will have to do this, even though if they don't like it or else it will give you tough times in the future). Save your tickets, boarding passes, passport stamps. You said you already have some money transfer receipts so thats great! Starting sending emails once everyday/ or every otherday you can later take a snap shot of the inbox and send those as your proof. Phone cards are not considered as proofs, so you will need to provide call logs to prove that you are making calls to the applicats phone number, you can't just send the used prepaid cards, they are not considered as proof because it doesn't show who you are calling with those. Medical needs to be done before you send your package to CPC-Mississauga, however, currenly the processes in CHC-Islamabad are taking so long that everyone(Including my wife) is receiving remedical requests because they get expired by the time they look at the file. So alot of people who are applying now are not getting the medicals done before the send the application. I would suggest you get the medicals done 6 months after the file reaches Islamabad. Visit VISA is possible however, you will need a strong proof and a supporting letter explaining your returning back home after your visit, the support could include letter from work/university etc.

Hope most of your questions got answered, if you need more assisstance I would suggest you follow the Islamabad thread where there are alot of applicants facing situations like your's and you will get to learn alot. My wife's case is in process since Jan 2010, its a simple/straight forward case there could be and still no VISA. We had full wedding/valima/mehndi, with lots of pictures, emails and phone logs since 2003. I have made two trips after the wedding(Oct 2009) and provided every piece of evidence there possibly could be and yet still waiting. She recentlly received her remedical request so it seems like now its getting closer to be done but still waiting for that last step where they request Passport to stamp the VISA on. Anyways, click below for the Islamabad thread and feel free to send me Private Messages if you need more help on this, or you can also find me on the Islamabad thread I go there alot GOOD LUCK!

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/chc-islamabad-spouse-sponsorship-timeline-2009-2010-t28775.21735.html

 

[mahmed17]

walaikum asalam,

thank you so much for your reply, it surely helped, and i know my biggest weak point is of not having any pictures with her, other than that i have everything else covered... i will prob contact an immigration lawyer, if not end up being in Pak for a week or so (if i am lucky to get time off from my new job) and take a heck a lot of pics with her and send them in...

however, when we fill up the applications, do we have to immediately send in all documentations/evidence/proofs along with them or those can be sent in later?

meaning should i send in my forms now and these pics later, or forms and pics/evidence together to avoid any other messup...

If you are not able to get time of work before sending the application then I would suggest to send it in to Islamabad, because they don't even do the initial review until 9-12 months down the road anyway. But as soon as you go to Pakistan then send in the pictures ASAP and try not to delay it too much but if you go even by August-September you will have your file number by then inshAllah if you submit everything now and then you can update the file. That is what I did, I sent my pics in Feb after coming back in January and in June my husband got his passport request so it wasn't delayed after sending the proofs allhumdulillah

 

[canadianwoman]

1) are phone nikah's still being accepted by Canada ...

It seems that phone nikahs are still being accepted - at least appeals I have seen from Pakistan are not mentioning phone nikahs as a reason to dismiss the appeal.
However, often when no rukhsati is done, the PR application will be rejected. The reason often given by the sponsor is that the rukhsati will be done after the PR visa is received and the woman is in Canada, but this is not usually accepted. Instead, it is usually seen as evidence the marriage is fake. The marriage not having been consummated is often given as a reason for rejecting the PR application.

2) the family/khandaan is/was a bit strict - so no picture or video scenario's were possible and since marrying her was not the purpose/intention of the trip i did not take any pictures/vids with her...

You can include evidence in your application that in your culture or family traditions, photos and video are not allowed. You could get an affidavit from a religious expert or leader about this. Some explanation will be needed about why you don't have photos.

3) wedding being over phone etc and me not having visited back home since marriage (its not easy going every now and then) we do not have any pictures together... will that be any hindrance in my application process...

Yes. Provide an explanation as noted above, and try to get some photos of the two of you when you visit next time.

4) i have heard the application process is taking around 2 yrs now, would i be able to get her a visiting visa or say my parents apply for a visiting visa for her...

She won't be able to get a visitor visa. To get one, she has to prove she will leave Canada before it expires. With a husband in Canada, this is virtually impossible for applicants from certain countries, Pakistan being one.

5) can she go for a medical before the application/file is started or have to wait for it to be in process first (having a file #)

She is supposed to get her medical beofer she files the application. You send in the proof of the medical with the application.

6) i use calling cards when calling her, what will be a good way to use it as a proof for later on....

Usually calling cards are useless as proof. See if you can get a record of calls made, and to what number, from the company. Probably you won't be able to. I suggest you start calling each other using a method that leaves a record: you can print out a record of Skype calls made, for example; some cheap phone plans do provide a monthly bill with the numbers called listed. You can also print out a record of instant messages made, or of emails sent. Or send each other letters and cards, and keep the envelopes as proof of the date they were sent.

My suggestion would be to go to Pakistan to visit her and perform the rukhsati. Spend some time together, have a honeymoon. And get proof of all of this: you have visited her once already, so you already have some proof of that visit. Include things like a copy of your plane ticket, the boarding passes, the entry and exit stamps in your passport, hotel receipts with both of your names on them, receipts from restaurants and other activities dones together, receipts for anything to do with the wedding or reception or parties you have had or will have to celebrate the marriage. And take lots of photos of the two of you. If her family doesn't want photos taken, explain as I mentioned above why these photos with her family are missing.

Include proof you are sending her money in the application.
Include all evidence you have that the relationship is genuine in the original application. You can then send in additional proof about halfway through the process - but this additional proof should be evidence from after the time the application was sent. If there is a lot of evidence the marriage is genuine, the processing is often much faster than the posted timelines.
Here is a link to an apeal case with evidence similare to yours, so you can see how CIC views evidence.
http://www.iijcan.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=nikah+&language=en&searchTitle=Canada+%28federal%29+-+Immigration+and+Refugee+Board+of+Canada&path=/en/ca/irb/doc/2010/2010canlii84082/2010canlii84082.html

 

[hogaishaadi]

Okay, its been a while, some updates... and some new questions...

With all the mixed remarks and stories/facts/advises, i decided to have everything completed/done and then send in my application process... so i just recently went for a month in Pakistan and got the rukhsati done (however quietly - no party etc as it was muharam time and the only time i could get vaccation that big) got lots of photos of us and with relatives and at places, we were together throughout, now i am just curious about these things...

should i get medical done for her (marriage has been consumated)
we got a police clearance done in dec 2010 but its been 12 months now, should we get a new one and send these in now, or wait a while and then send in both these later...

another issue i am having is that other than skype (we used fairly from may 2011) i had been using calling cards earlier which they don't accept but i am thinking of sending them anyways because i was unaware of their rule change... i did start a service in october 2011 for calling which would give us call log but the people i got it from (a store out here) are just refusing to give me the record, this sucks as we talked a lot over the phone from oct '11 to now... (i have switched to raza.com now a little expensive but i atleast get the log without a headache)...

does anyone know how to print a complete log of skype history... thank you... i got this program for it, but it doesnt have print option...

can someone be kind enough to list all the necessary application forms that i need to send in from my behalf, from my wife's behalf (and any supplementary forms) so i do not miss anything that is required... i did notice that the supplementary package for Pakistan has forms which are ditto of the ones that one mentioned otherwise, for eg. 5669 is the same as one of the supplementary ones, do i still send in both?

any other tips or rule changes that might help, thanks

 

[suva]

1.does anyone know how to print a complete log of skype history... thank you... i got this program for it, but it doesnt have print option...

2. can someone be kind enough to list all the necessary application forms that i need to send in from my behalf, from my wife's behalf (and any supplementary forms) so i do not miss anything that is required... i did notice that the supplementary package for Pakistan has forms which are ditto of the ones that one mentioned otherwise, for eg. 5669 is the same as one of the supplementary ones, do i still send in both?

any other tips or rule changes that might help, thanks

1.open skype
2.click on ur wifes name, u will see the history
3.then press print screen button on the keyboard
4.open ms word, and press cntrl+v, your chat history for 1st page of skype will be pasted
5.then go to skype and press PGDN on keyboard
6.keep on repeating 3 and 4 until the end of your history