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SUPER VISA is a SHAM

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
This whole Super visa system either dose not work or proves to be what is categorically a dictionary meaning of openly 'cheating' on applicants, i.e -- promising something, hyping anout it, chanring enormous sums of money for it, and finally not delivering what is promised.

This has been the experience with my parent's super visa.
Here is the overall story:

I usually don't get to see my parent due for many years due to my busy schedule, working for a critical position in an iconic company of Canada.
It was a welcome news when the super visa was announced. So I decided to apply for my parent, for the reason that I would get to spend a little more time than just 6 months on regular visa.
I went through all the multiple steps involved in my parents super visa procesing, including paying 1800$+ in health insurance, waiting for couple of months, providing all of my supporting sponsor documentation intact, faced delays due to whic I had to postpone my parent's visit by one year.
----------------------
Firstly I found that the 10-year visa claim itself is blatantly false. (they will only stamp till the validity of the current Passport, so in my parents case, this was just 5 years !!!.... unlike the US B1/B2 visa which is unconditionally given for 10 years regardless of passport validity date)
----------------------
Finally I convinced my parent to take the pain of traveling (which he was reluctant to do).
I had purchased a return ticket just in case (within 5 months), and because it is easier and cheaper to book for return ticket, and obviously you cant book a return flight ticket 2 years in advance. (which practically was not required because the Super Visa is specifically meant for 2 years stay at a time (not that that was the primary plan).

When my parent arrived, despite all the documentation being in tact and all procedures completed, had to go through the following confusing and frustrating ordeal repeatedly.

At the airport, the immigration official was primarily interested in checking if there was a RETURN FLIGHT TICKET !!!!! (which was actually luckily available for convenience, else probably he would not have even been allowed)
The border official stamped for validity date only till that date of return flight !!!! (this was only 5 months away)

[so despite what was an extensive process to get a visa that is meant for parents to stay for 2 years, and was expected to be a painless process of receiving a parent, the stamping was done for less than the duration allowed for a regular visit visa!!!]
After stamping, just because the immigration official got confused, she sent my parent for further questioning, inside (making the experience less than pleasant for my parent, since my parent obviously dint know the working details of the super visa - obviously because it is processed by the sponsor who was me.)
Then another official questions my parent again and then scribbles and changes the date on the original stamp to extend it to 2 years instead of the 5 month period.

I thought this ordeal was one time and finally over, but it wasn't to be.

My plan was to take my parent to US for a few visits while he was here in Canada.(and why would you not?)
Going to US itself was absolutely painless, with US-I94 stamping straight forward without any cheap bargaining/negotiation or confusion with border guards.
However every time we returned back to Canada, the distasteful ordeal kept repeating as follows:
The CBSA officer at the border mainly asks when my parent is going back [either not knowing what a super visa is meant for, or blatantly refusing to abide by what it stands for, checks for return flight and puts a stamp with validity only till the return flight date.

Consequently on all 3 occasions we went to US and came back, the CBSA officers kept re-stamping based on same validity date till return flight ticket so correspondingly every time, the stamping at border was being done for lesser and lesser duration approaching the return flight date. This time it was stamped only for measely 3 weeks solely based on return flight ticket date 3 weeks away from now.[So where the hell is this 2 years/10 years calim]

Adding insult to injury, seeing the repeated unnecessary duplicate stamps bearing same validity date, this time the CBSA officer got even more confused and basically asked if my parents visa application was rejected before !!!!
--------------------------------
[Based on this and many other of my previous Canada visa processing experiences, It is clear that the way Canadian border system works is - by default treat people as criminals and hooligans, unless you strive to prove otherwise by literally begging for a little bit of respect]

Further to make matters worse, even though my parents US I-94 was valid till February, she forcefully took it away... Why the hell is a Canadian Border officer interested in imposing US entry restriction, when the US border guys have given the I-94 to be used as needed till its validity date?????? [the CBSA seems more interested in processing US- Visa procedures rather than abiding by the Canadian Visa regulations that are set out!!!!!]
All the while these things kept happening, there was not a small amount of respect shown either to me or my parent at the border.
Moreover, there is no specific standard for a given visa procedure, every border guard treats and processes differently, since they themsleves are confused about what procedure to follow.

Come to think of it, the 1800$+ health insurance paid for the super visa itself is totally useless.
you cant use it even once, because if you do you wont get a refund for the unused portion of premium, when your parent goes back.
If you take it to any doctor, he or she will not understand its provisions and will be charged upfront.
Basically a sham !!!

Compare this with the US Visit visa system in general:
There is no hassle in getting US visitor visa when you have all documents and records intact.
It is given as per what is promised: i.e 10 years regardless of your passport validity date.
you get I-94 for 6 months, instead of some return ticket date.(making it flexible and easier for the applicant to revisit if needed, without having to reapply and re-pay and replan everything)
The border guards usually welcome you with pride, respect and compassion towards you as a guest, despite being tough and strong, unlike the whimps that Canadian border guards usually are physically.
there is no extracting of money through health insurance and other such grand schemes etc.
There is no confusion with border guards,
There is a uniform standard procedure and is not arbitrarily changed by border guards at their own wish and will.

-----------------

The feeling one can get is - there is no trusting of any Canadian Visa system claims.
This is not the only example of it. They are basically custom designed to mislead people, extract money, deceive people, make matters worse, and finally waste huge amounts of time and in some cases, waste ones lifetime in misery and confusion.
Please don't fall prey to these grand schemes of deception.
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,677
261
sadcanadian said:
Compare this with the US Visit visa system in general:
There is no hassle in getting US visitor visa when you have all documents and records intact.
It is given as per what is promised: i.e 10 years regardless of your passport validity date.
you get I-94 for 6 months, instead of some return ticket date.(making it flexible and easier for the applicant to revisit if needed, without having to reapply and re-pay and replan everything)
The border guards usually welcome you with pride, respect and compassion towards you as a guest, despite being tough and strong, unlike the whimps that Canadian border guards usually are physically.
there is no extracting of money through health insurance and other such grand schemes etc.
There is no confusion with border guards,
There is a uniform standard procedure and is not arbitrarily changed by border guards at their own wish and will.
Sorry to hear about your experience, but I just had to comment on a few things.

Firstly, I, and pretty much everyone I know, have always found the Canadian immigration officers to be more friendly and personable than the US immigration officials. Secondly, from what I have seen, getting a US visa is substantially harder than getting a Canadian TRV. Finally, if your parents were to visit the US, they would also likely purchase the same travel insurance with the same terms and conditions. It may not be mandatory, but it would definitely be advisable.

One important lesson from your experience that I was not aware of relates to the importance of the return ticket date. I appreciate your raising this, and will definitely keep it in mind for the future. Thank you for that.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,553
7,205
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
I'll address a few of your statements.

sadcanadian said:
Firstly I found that the 10-year visa claim itself is blatantly false. (they will only stamp till the validity of the current Passport, so in my parents case, this was just 5 years !!!.... unlike the US B1/B2 visa which is unconditionally given for 10 years regardless of passport validity date)

[so despite what was an extensive process to get a visa that is meant for parents to stay for 2 years, and was expected to be a painless process of receiving a parent, the stamping was done for less than the duration allowed for a regular visit visa!!!]
The website clearly says "This visa is valid for up to 10 years and will let you visit your family in Canada for up to two years". It does not say that everyone who applies will definitely get a 10 year visa guaranteeing them a 2 year stay.

sadcanadian said:
Further to make matters worse, even though my parents US I-94 was valid till February, she forcefully took it away... Why the hell is a Canadian Border officer interested in imposing US entry restriction, when the US border guys have given the I-94 to be used as needed till its validity date?????? [the CBSA seems more interested in processing US- Visa procedures rather than abiding by the Canadian Visa regulations that are set out!!!!!]
This is normal. When crossing into Canada by land, US visitors are advised to give the I-94 to Canadian immigration officials.

From the US Embassy in Ottawa website:

"If you arrive in Canada by land then you may give your I-94 to a Canadian Immigration inspector"

"Failure to turn in your I-94 (or I-94W) when you leave the U.S. can create a serious problem. Without this record of your departure, you will be identified in our records as an "overstay." Being identified as an overstay means that you will be denied re-entry into the U.S."

sadcanadian said:
There is no hassle in getting US visitor visa when you have all documents and records intact.
The border guards usually welcome you with pride, respect and compassion towards you as a guest, despite being tough and strong, unlike the whimps that Canadian border guards usually are physically..
I know quite a few people who had issues getting US visas. And I know quite a few people, myself included (Canadian), who have dealt with awful US border officers.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,847
22,112
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
canuck_in_uk said:
This is normal. When crossing into Canada by land, US visitors are advised to give the I-94 to Canadian immigration officials.
Agreed - this is correct procedure. It's what should happen if rules are followed.

I have two friends who for whom this procedure failed (i.e. the I-94 was not given to the Canadian IO). One managed to fix the situation before any harm was sustained. The other ended up incurring significant legal bills to fix a US overstay that never happened.

There's a very good reason why this procedure is in place and should be followed.
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
torontosm said:
Sorry to hear about your experience, but I just had to comment on a few things.

Firstly, I, and pretty much everyone I know, have always found the Canadian immigration officers to be more friendly and personable than the US immigration officials. Secondly, from what I have seen, getting a US visa is substantially harder than getting a Canadian TRV. Finally, if your parents were to visit the US, they would also likely purchase the same travel insurance with the same terms and conditions. It may not be mandatory, but it would definitely be advisable.

This claim is absolutely not true, getting US-Visa is 10 times easier (provided you are legitimately applying) I have had my parent visit 3 times previously on US visit Visa (while I was working in the US) and have never ever had to go through these hassles.... Parent never had to take medical tests, be subjected to confusing details and long wait times, all he had to do is go for a face visit and got 10 year multiple entry unconditionally. I did take medical insurance in US but it never costed 1800$+ and had many choises + could opt out any time or chose to not take it at all.

One important lesson from your experience that I was not aware of relates to the importance of the return ticket date. I appreciate your raising this, and will definitely keep it in mind for the future. Thank you for that.
The main question is , why the hell would one even bother to go for Super Visa if the final border seal is to be on flight return ticket !!!
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
scylla said:
Agreed - this is correct procedure. It's what should happen if rules are followed.

I have two friends who for whom this procedure failed (i.e. the I-94 was not given to the Canadian IO). One managed to fix the situation before any harm was sustained. The other ended up incurring significant legal bills to fix a US overstay that never happened.

There's a very good reason why this procedure is in place and should be followed.
Well you can pretty much dump this argument, since I have personally checked with Border Guards and confirmed that one can keep the I94 to travel back and forth between Canada. Basically the US dose not believe in nickle and diming people.
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
canuck_in_uk said:
I'll address a few of your statements.

The website clearly says "This visa is valid for up to 10 years and will let you visit your family in Canada for up to two years". It does not say that everyone who applies will definitely get a 10 year visa guaranteeing them a 2 year stay.

This is normal. When crossing into Canada by land, US visitors are advised to give the I-94 to Canadian immigration officials.

From the US Embassy in Ottawa website:

"If you arrive in Canada by land then you may give your I-94 to a Canadian Immigration inspector"

"Failure to turn in your I-94 (or I-94W) when you leave the U.S. can create a serious problem. Without this record of your departure, you will be identified in our records as an "overstay." Being identified as an overstay means that you will be denied re-entry into the U.S."

I know quite a few people who had issues getting US visas. And I know quite a few people, myself included (Canadian), who have dealt with awful US border officers.
I dont even think you understood the situation properly or read correctly
The issue is not about guaranteeing 2 year stay or 10 year permit. This is about explicitly declining to comply with the specific category of visa, which is approved with extensive details and hurdles well before coming for a visit, and it is about total lack of information that border guards posses about their own visa system. Besides the extensive review and approval process involved in this seperate category of visit visa, final approval being made on a lame return flight ticket ?!!!
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
canuck_in_uk said:
I'll address a few of your statements.

The website clearly says "This visa is valid for up to 10 years and will let you visit your family in Canada for up to two years". It does not say that everyone who applies will definitely get a 10 year visa guaranteeing them a 2 year stay.

This is normal. When crossing into Canada by land, US visitors are advised to give the I-94 to Canadian immigration officials.

From the US Embassy in Ottawa website:

"If you arrive in Canada by land then you may give your I-94 to a Canadian Immigration inspector"

"Failure to turn in your I-94 (or I-94W) when you leave the U.S. can create a serious problem. Without this record of your departure, you will be identified in our records as an "overstay." Being identified as an overstay means that you will be denied re-entry into the U.S."

I know quite a few people who had issues getting US visas. And I know quite a few people, myself included (Canadian), who have dealt with awful US border officers.
Also about US-I94, is it Canadian Border Guards business to deal with it? Moreover the overstay dosent apply if it is still valid for a few more months !! untill which time it is descretion of the visa holder, why else would they even give it for 6 months otherwise! More over I have confirmed all this from the horses mouth... whichis the US CBP personell first hand !!! Again the primary issue here is not about US-I94, this topic is about the blatant disregard generally shown by CBSA officers for people belonging to Canada itself
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
scylla said:
Agreed - this is correct procedure. It's what should happen if rules are followed.

I have two friends who for whom this procedure failed (i.e. the I-94 was not given to the Canadian IO). One managed to fix the situation before any harm was sustained. The other ended up incurring significant legal bills to fix a US overstay that never happened.

There's a very good reason why this procedure is in place and should be followed.
Well its not that complicated, one can always go and give it at the airport, in fact many previous times, the CBSA officers themselves had refused to take my I-94 when I tried giving it voluntarily. So how come this time it happens to be the opposite ?! Moreover this is a circumstance when the I94 is still valid for another 4 months. Now if I have to go visit Us during Christmas I have eto again make extra application and extra stamp in passport, not because of US CBP, but because of Canadian CBSA ignorance. CBSA shoud firsts get their own process correct and then worry about US I-94.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,847
22,112
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Here's the deal... I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that one country's policies or immigration officers are worse than the others. For every bad experience involving Canada, someone can certainly give you an equally bad US border crossing story. I have loads of them to tell if you have a few hours to spare (one involving a full cavity search for no real reason, luckily not me). And yes - I have personally experienced extreme rudeness from US immigration officials on many occasions (my husband is an American citizen but that doesn't count for squat). One of my favourites is the time my husband (the American born citizen) got publicly screamed at for a prolonged period of time by two US IOs because he forgot about an old unwrapped granola bar he had at the bottom of his backpack (he accidentally declared that he had no food).

I can honestly say that I don't give it (the rudeness) a second thought because it happens so often. I just try to answer any questions as briefly and accurately as I can. I also invested in a Nexus card a few years ago which has greatly reduced the unpleasant experiences at the US border.

As for policies, in some cases Canada's rules are more favourable - in other cases it's the US. You can't pick a winner. It's certainly not easy to obtain a visitor visa to the US. Just visit any US immigration forum and read through the threads on refusals (I can give you a link if you’re interested). They will sound no different than what you see here. It seems like you're pretty familiar with the US immigration rules that are superior to Canadian rules (and I absolutely agree that there are US rules which are more favourable than Canada's), so here are just a few examples where Canada is far more generous:

- Canada allows green card holders to visit Canada without a visa (the US does not extend the same benefit to Canadian PR holders)
- There is no minimum income requirement to sponsor a spouse in Canada (the US requires 125% of the poverty line)
- When sponsoring parents in Canada, you can include dependents in the application (the US does not allow dependents to be sponsored with parents, even if the dependent is a minor child)
- There is no automatic penalty in Canada for overstays (in the US, six months or more is an automatic 3 year ban, one year + is an automatic 10 year ban)
- The penalty for misrepresentation in Canada is a 2 year ban (it's a lifetime ban in the US which can be waived but with great difficulty)

Canada is no better than the US and the US is no better than Canada. People have horrific experiences with both and great experiences with both.
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
scylla said:
Here's the deal... I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that one country's policies or immigration officers are worse than the others. For every bad experience involving Canada, someone can certainly give you an equally bad US border crossing story. I have loads of them to tell if you have a few hours to spare (one involving a full cavity search for no real reason, luckily not me). And yes - I have personally experienced extreme rudeness from US immigration officials on many occasions (my husband is an American citizen but that doesn't count for squat). One of my favourites is the time my husband (the American born citizen) got publicly screamed at for a prolonged period of time by two US IOs because he forgot about an old unwrapped granola bar he had at the bottom of his backpack (he accidentally declared that he had no food).

I can honestly say that I don't give it (the rudeness) a second thought because it happens so often. I just try to answer any questions as briefly and accurately as I can. I also invested in a Nexus card a few years ago which has greatly reduced the unpleasant experiences at the US border.

As for policies, in some cases Canada's rules are more favourable - in other cases it's the US. You can't pick a winner. It's certainly not easy to obtain a visitor visa to the US. Just visit any US immigration forum and read through the threads on refusals (I can give you a link if you're interested). They will sound no different than what you see here. It seems like you're pretty familiar with the US immigration rules that are superior to Canadian rules (and I absolutely agree that there are US rules which are more favourable than Canada's), so here are just a few examples where Canada is far more generous:

- Canada allows green card holders to visit Canada without a visa (the US does not extend the same benefit to Canadian PR holders)
- There is no minimum income requirement to sponsor a spouse in Canada (the US requires 125% of the poverty line)
- When sponsoring parents in Canada, you can include dependents in the application (the US does not allow dependents to be sponsored with parents, even if the dependent is a minor child)
- There is no automatic penalty in Canada for overstays (in the US, six months or more is an automatic 3 year ban, one year + is an automatic 10 year ban)
- The penalty for misrepresentation in Canada is a 2 year ban (it's a lifetime ban in the US which can be waived but with great difficulty)

Canada is no better than the US and the US is no better than Canada. People have horrific experiences with both and great experiences with both.
Well you cant argue with stats:
I have had 3 work permits applied and effortlessly received + plus my 10 year visit visa to US + my dad's 10 year visit visa to US
I have also crossed US border 13-15 times and never received a rude treatment from US CBP, its been a real delight going into US every time for me personally.
While on most of those 13-15 times, at Canadian border, I've either been intriguingly questioned for things that are unrelated, checked for my baggage or looked down upon with total disrespect. In fact its officially known that CBSA procedure itself is to treat you rudely (perhaps in an attempt to extract possible hidden information) albeit, at the cost of quality of experience of people crossing the border.
Moreover this is not the only instance of conflict I have faced, i.e not just with my parent's super visa, but also with various other things, not just with CBSA officeers but even with teh visa officers processing the files in the consulate. CONFUSION + INCONSISTENCY is the main symptom that is faced over and over again.

Besides I dont give a damn for rude treatment itslef, But in these cases, it is coupled with screwing up pages in the passport like trash and the resulting perpetuating and unnecessary confusion created forever in the passport that the frustration boils down to. [besides the main topic of this blog which is Super visa itself is a meaningless waste of time, effort and money]
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,677
261
sadcanadian said:
In fact its officially known that CBSA procedure itself is to treat you rudely (perhaps in an attempt to extract possible hidden information) albeit, at the cost of quality of experience of people crossing the border.
I really doubt this is "officially known". Otherwise, perhaps the hundreds of Canadian IO's I have encountered over my years of travel weren't doing their job, because I have never been addressed or dealt with in a rude manner.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,553
7,205
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
sadcanadian said:
Well you cant argue with stats:
I have had 3 work permits applied and effortlessly received + plus my 10 year visit visa to US + my dad's 10 year visit visa to US
I have also crossed US border 13-15 times and never received a rude treatment from US CBP, its been a real delight going into US every time for me personally.
While on most of those 13-15 times, at Canadian border, I've either been intriguingly questioned for things that are unrelated, checked for my baggage or looked down upon with total disrespect. In fact its officially known that CBSA procedure itself is to treat you rudely (perhaps in an attempt to extract possible hidden information) albeit, at the cost of quality of experience of people crossing the border.
Your personal experiences are not "stats".

Have you ever considered that it is your poor attitude towards the Canadian officers that causes them to treat you differently? You obviously look down on them and with what you've said about them here, I imagine you probably come off as rude and hostile when you are speaking to them.
 

sadcanadian

Newbie
Oct 17, 2013
9
0
canuck_in_uk said:
Your personal experiences are not "stats".

Have you ever considered that it is your poor attitude towards the Canadian officers that causes them to treat you differently? You obviously look down on them and with what you've said about them here, I imagine you probably come off as rude and hostile when you are speaking to them.
Yeah right!.. like -- 'effect' is the reason behind the 'cause'... or just find some distortion since there is no answer to the issue in hand... even then, it still dosent explain about my better experience with US CBP (and I am neither American nor live in US for the matter)...
 
Sep 6, 2013
14
0
Lagos, Nigeria
Category........
Visa Office......
Lagos
NOC Code......
Spousal Open Work Permit
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
10-09-2013
AOR Received.
10-09-2013
IELTS Request
N/A
Thanks for sharing this experience. I now know what to expect if I ever apply for this kind of visa for my parents.