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Singaporean applicants under FSW

jnathan

VIP Member
Feb 3, 2009
4,513
142
Category........
Visa Office......
Sheng Chiu
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21st Jan 2010
Doc's Request.
10th March 2010
AOR Received.
10th June 2010
IELTS Request
provided
File Transfer...
IN PROCESS: 12th October, 2010
Med's Request
Withdrawal Request sent....Was waiting for files to return....instead of returning the files, VO sent the MR !!
Med's Done....
28 May 2012
Passport Req..
24 July 2012
mediajunk and tran,

have you guys seen the frustrative posts of arlnr ?
can you guys give your views on it?
he actually opened several threads.
here they are

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/attn-seniors-totally-unfair-to-ask-such-kind-of-explanation-from-singapore-t45478.45.html

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/asking-tense-explanation-from-sg-beyond-the-cic-criteria-t45483.0.html
 

BDSkilled

Hero Member
Oct 15, 2009
567
13
Dhaka
Category........
Visa Office......
Singapore
NOC Code......
0632
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
LANDED..........
December 2010
As Your NOC Describe the Teaching Position which Psychologicaly Represent you Must have Good Understanding In Any of the Canadial Official Language. So the Best Solution for you to get IELTS score Minimum 4 4 2 2.

Hope you will Achive the Very Best Score.
 

mediajunkie

Star Member
Sep 2, 2009
162
13
jnathan said:
mediajunk and tran,

have you guys seen the frustrative posts of arlnr ?
can you guys give your views on it?
he actually opened several threads.
here they are

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/attn-seniors-totally-unfair-to-ask-such-kind-of-explanation-from-singapore-t45478.45.html

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/asking-tense-explanation-from-sg-beyond-the-cic-criteria-t45483.0.html
There's nothing I would say that hasn't already been said. He's looking for an easy way out despite having poor English skills.

I have very little sympathy for people who want to come to a predominantly English-speaking country but refuses to at least be semi-proficient in the language especially as an educator.

It's hard enough for immigrants to find a job in Canada, and with his skills he is never going to be able to find a job as a teacher here, and he'll have to go back home eventually, so the Canadian embassy is just saving him a lot of money and frustration.
 

tran

Hero Member
May 10, 2009
346
15
mediajunkie said:
There's nothing I would say that hasn't already been said. He's looking for an easy way out despite having poor English skills.

I have very little sympathy for people who want to come to a predominantly English-speaking country but refuses to at least be semi-proficient in the language especially as an educator.

It's hard enough for immigrants to find a job in Canada, and with his skills he is never going to be able to find a job as a teacher here, and he'll have to go back home eventually, so the Canadian embassy is just saving him a lot of money and frustration.
The new NOC 29 list just came out; effective 26 Jun 2010. University professor and college instructor are out (lucky for Abel and mediajunkie). It looks like
arlnr will be wasting his money(attorney) and time to pursue the case further. Architect is in the latest NOC list(lucky for mediajunkie's sister). Financial manager and accountant are out(unlucky for Susechan)

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2010/2010-06-26/html/notice-avis-eng.html#REF3


The conditions seem to be stricter.
 

abelkwh

Hero Member
Jul 30, 2009
523
15
Yes indeed Tran, lucky or just on time for Mediajunkie and myself but unfortunate for SusuanC since accounting professionals out of the equation now.

Guess, this is a lesson for those intending to apply not to delay in their applications and do it since many already knew way ahead that the list was going to change!

Seems that immigration to CA will be more difficult in the near future and guess the CA immigration dept has realised that those whose english sucks BIG time should not even be allowed to immigrate, which is similar to Australia now, cause these people whom cant even speak, write, read or listen to proper english will eventually not be able to find a decent job with that kind of language proficiency. The immigration dept has also come to adjust the occupation list regularly to reflect the demands and needs of the CA economy and market, which is normal!

So it works out good for some and not so lucky for some. This is just a fair game for all and luck has to fall opon the right person then!

Good luck to those new applicants and wishing all the best who satisfy those new in the NOC list. Act soon for those interested cause Cap is 1000 only per NOC! NO JOKE indeed!
 

mediajunkie

Star Member
Sep 2, 2009
162
13
tran said:
The new NOC 29 list just came out; effective 26 Jun 2010. University professor and college instructor are out (lucky for Abel and mediajunkie). It looks like
arlnr will be wasting his money(attorney) and time to pursue the case further. Architect is in the latest NOC list(lucky for mediajunkie's sister). Financial manager and accountant are out(unlucky for Susechan)

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2010/2010-06-26/html/notice-avis-eng.html#REF3


The conditions seem to be stricter.
I guess that is why there are no college-level teaching jobs available despite having looked for more than 2 years. I think we were definitely lucky in the timing when we applied.

Looks like most of the IT jobs are gone too as are managerial jobs.

My sister has been trying to look for a job in Toronto ever since she got laid off over a year ago and she can't find anything because when the economy is bad, the construction industry is bad. Luckily she has found another job in NYC recently.

Maybe Canada has had a huge influx of immigrants over the last few years and too few of them are able to find jobs, especially white collar jobs. Looking at that list 1/2 of the jobs are blue collar trade jobs and 1/3 of them are in the medical profession.
 

abelkwh

Hero Member
Jul 30, 2009
523
15
I guess its better to be a blue collar these days than a white one! Hahha

Plumbing jobs arent that bad either if i have the skills but then i need to be re-trained again!

So guess the next batch of new immigrants will have to be proficient in english and also professional grey or blue collars!
 

jnathan

VIP Member
Feb 3, 2009
4,513
142
Category........
Visa Office......
Sheng Chiu
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21st Jan 2010
Doc's Request.
10th March 2010
AOR Received.
10th June 2010
IELTS Request
provided
File Transfer...
IN PROCESS: 12th October, 2010
Med's Request
Withdrawal Request sent....Was waiting for files to return....instead of returning the files, VO sent the MR !!
Med's Done....
28 May 2012
Passport Req..
24 July 2012
Can anyone answer?

In the Wake of recovering from the recession::::

How and why Canada suddenly needs so many plumbers, Crane operators, Architects, Nurses, Doctors, and other people from whom they expect to meet 67 points ( rather bizzare).

and Why not IT guys, Accountants, Finance managers, or others who have been excluded.

Can anyone also answer why PR holders are not being allowed to apply for jobs in Canada as they dont have Canadian degrees although they have been good competents on their fields in their countries. I dont know why all on a sudden their skills and degrees become unwanted in Canadian Human Resource Divisions after they migrated to Canada. PR holders are failed to get jobs not for their own faults, its the system that canadian employers have been practicing for ages. until now before the recession hit hard on Canada, this issue of unemployed PR holders has never been raised or widely discussed.
 

mediajunkie

Star Member
Sep 2, 2009
162
13
jnathan said:
Can anyone answer?

In the Wake of recovering from the recession::::

How and why Canada suddenly needs so many plumbers, Crane operators, Architects, Nurses, Doctors, and other people from whom they expect to meet 67 points ( rather bizzare).

and Why not IT guys, Accountants, Finance managers, or others who have been excluded.

Can anyone also answer why PR holders are not being allowed to apply for jobs in Canada as they dont have Canadian degrees although they have been good competents on their fields in their countries. I dont know why all on a sudden their skills and degrees become unwanted in Canadian Human Resource Divisions after they migrated to Canada. PR holders are failed to get jobs not for their own faults, its the system that canadian employers have been practicing for ages. until now before the recession hit hard on Canada, this issue of unemployed PR holders has never been raised or widely discussed.
Only the government of Canada can truly answer that question. But this is my educated guess. Too many people have degrees now and there isn't enough people who want to do blue collar jobs. You must get rid of the mentality that plumbing and welding is a bad job because down here they are good jobs that pay as much as doctors.

Plumbers have ALWAYS been in demand as they are in many developed countries. It is a dirty job and no one wants to do it and those who do it get paid a lot because there is little competition.

Welding is also a bad occupation. The work conditions are terrible because you work in extreme heat because of the acetylene torches, even if you are indoors. It is also dangerous because a malfunctioning torch could explode.

A Crane Operator may sometimes have a degree in construction engineering or at least a diploma depending on what kind of crane they are operating. It requires some knowledge of advanced physics.

Architects are probably needed because there aren't many canadian universities offering Architecture programs.

EVERY country needs nurses. The USA gives automatic green cards to nurses. Nursing is a pretty dirty job too - you have to clean up people's shit and urine. Just watch any medical show. This is because baby boomers (those born between 1945 - 1969) are aging and they are going to need medical care.

Same thing with doctors they are needed to care for an aging population. But doctors that come here are often sent to the rural areas. My doctor was sent to work in a small town New Brunswick because rural areas lack doctors badly since no one wants to live there. He had to work there for 5 years before he was allowed to move to Toronto.

My friend who is Malaysian is applying as a welder. I am helping him with his application. This is his score breakdown:

1. Obtained a three-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship (other than university) and completed at least 15 years of full-time or full-time equivalent studies: 22 points
2. Language Ability - Proficient in English: 16 Points
3. Work Experience - 4 years or more: 21 points
4. Age - Between 21-49: 10 points
5. No Arrange Employment: 0 points
6. Adaptability: Spouse with a degree from Canada: 5 points
Brother-in-law in Canada: 5 points

Total: 79 points. As you can see he very easily passed the 67 point mark. He is trying to see if he can take a French assessment test too to increase his points since he took french in high school, even though I tell him that he has more than enough.

The unemployment isn't new. I have been in Canada since 2006 when the economy was still booming and it was tough for new immigrants to get jobs then too. Not many people stay unemployed. They usually take survival jobs or they change careers. So many people I know who used to be bankers are now real estate agents and they are happy with the job.

You may be good at IT with lots of experience, but do you know anything about Canadian workplace customs? Do you know that if you compliment a woman in Canada and if she doesn't like it she could sue you for sexual harrassment? How well do you know the Canadian economy? Do you know how Do you have an established base of vendors in Canada? Are you able to bring in clients to the company? How familiar are you with Canadian labour laws? Is there anyone in Canada that is able to vouch for your skills or personality or work ethic? If your boss asks you to give a presentation can you do it clearly and succinctly? If someone asks you to write a report can you do it in perfect English with no grammatical and spelling errors? Most new immigrants are not able to do any of these things which is why employers do not want new immigrants. These are things that cannot be learnt in a few days. This is not to say that most immigrants do not get a job, but they usually do after a few years when they are more familiar with Canadian workplace culture.

As for IT guys, financial workers, etc. 500,000 PRs have landed in the last 2 years. Of that 500,000 I am willing to say that 400,000 are IT professionals or working in the finance industry. If you include the few hundred thousand from the pre-2008 backlog, there's probably close to a million IT professionals entering in recent years. In a country of only 30 million, they took in too many, and it's time to cut down.

Canada has had the most liberal immigration policy of all the English speaking countries and they realized they let too many people in and now they need to cut down. If you are dissatisfied with my answer or the answer from other people in the forum, you can write to the Ministers in charge of the immigration department to ask them for an official answer. Or you can come to Canada and try looking for a job here and ask your employers why they won't hire you when they reject you. I'm sorry that you were not able to submit your application in time for the change, but asking questions in this forums will only give you speculative answers, and it would not change the government's decision in any way.
 

abelkwh

Hero Member
Jul 30, 2009
523
15
Credos and plenty of cheers to Mediajunkies reply! It basically answers those ignorant people and thoose whom simply loves to blame on someone else or complain about immigration policies!


A government regardless where they are, needs to consider the economic conditions of the nation and also the social factors. Such is no easy feat but what the canadian govt has just done is simply to ease the burdens on the new immigrants who may fail at succeeding a new life in canada and save many the trouble and cost involved even if they cross the canadian border!
 

susechan

Newbie
Jun 22, 2010
2
0
Thank you Abel and Mediajunkie for all your guidance and sharing. Just a few days ago I anticipate with excitement the prospect of living my dream lifestyle. Things do change quickly with the sweep of an 'earthquake'. Its a pity that Canada is swarmed with so many accountants that they decided to take it out from the NOC. Guess I might have to try Australia next.

Mediajunkie: If you need any accounting advice (Singapore or generic), feel free to email me susechan @ yahoo . com

For all who have gotten their PR or have applied for theirs before the new NOC categories, all the best to you and your new life :)
 

jnathan

VIP Member
Feb 3, 2009
4,513
142
Category........
Visa Office......
Sheng Chiu
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21st Jan 2010
Doc's Request.
10th March 2010
AOR Received.
10th June 2010
IELTS Request
provided
File Transfer...
IN PROCESS: 12th October, 2010
Med's Request
Withdrawal Request sent....Was waiting for files to return....instead of returning the files, VO sent the MR !!
Med's Done....
28 May 2012
Passport Req..
24 July 2012
media and abel

which part of my post did you two NOT understand properly?

I am elaborating for you.

A Construction engineer can never ever be a crane operator. This could be an accident, when may be your crane op is sick on a very important day and the Engineer needs to carry on working , else there would be big loss for the company. its tru that crane op needs physics knowledge.

My questions was that, How come A recovering economy of Canada suddenly needs so many plumbers, welders, nurses, and other low category jobs' professionals compared to a graduate or Phd in Computers from other countries.

again the same questions for Architechs, what is the immediate need for them in recovering Canada.

Welders, Cooks, Chefs, Nurses, Crane ops had always been able to apply in Canadian PR program. If they couldnt meet the number in past for Canada, what made CIC thinks that, this time they will?

Where has that doctor worked in NB, Moncton? Fredericton? I have lived in Moncton for some months. I learned their ethics, cultures, social styles from there. I learned how people smile gently at you on a footpath in a small town like Moncton, they dont even know you but they know the gesture. i knew that loonie and toonies are the cutest names they gave to their two most used coins. I knew, How I searched for part time jobs in Canada from HRSDC centers in Deufferine, Toronto. I know how I had a very good relation with its manager with whom I used to chat about her family on a regular basis. Others might need some time. again, you need to allow some time. a year or two is not a great deal of time for an immigrant to learn all about Canada.

For white collar jobs, many immigrants had worked in a very good white collar jobs in their countries, So why cant they work in Canada? I am sure there are many cheats who went their with fraudulent papers demonstrating themselves for PR. they are bashing the economy of Canada, Not the ones who were very successful back in their own countries.


I thank you for your knowledge in statistics about the 0213's. I am sure, these 0213's were very successful in their countries and they will also be in Canada in due time. Its just that year 1995-2005 has seen scores n scores of IT graduates in India and asia, hence the bulk of applications reached to CIC in the past 2-3 yrs.

Canada might have done well to avoind another backlog, but they could have some the whole process more efficiently , such as by blocking all sorts of applications for 3 months.
Again, thanks media for your valuable analysis, keep doing so !

Good luck with you susechan, can you try with AEO? I am sure people will try for other ways to immigrate to Canada.
 

mediajunkie

Star Member
Sep 2, 2009
162
13
Once again your questions should not be directed here but at the Minister of immigration.

For architects look at all the new immigrants coming in - it means more houses, shopping malls, offices schools, childcare centers, etc. need to be built. Immigrants drive the construction industry.

They don't SUDDENLY need plumbers. They have ALWAYS needed them. No matter how bad the economy, plumbers will always have work. Same with welders - if your toilet is clogged you are going to pay a plumber to fix it no matter how much he costs. If your ship has a hole in it, you are going to pay a welder to fix it no matter how much it costs because you cannot run a ship. These industries are less recession proof. These industries are also highly unionized and the unions control the employers telling them how much workers are allowed to work and how much they are allowed to get paid. The garbage men in my area went on strike last year and after 4 weeks of negotiation with their unions garbage piling up the city government raised their wages from $20 an hour to $25 an hour. If the economy is bad do you think the government will reduce the number of garbage men? Same with doctors and nurses - if you get sick - are you going to stop seeing a doctor because the economy is bad?

When I was young I was told that there are 5 recession-proof industries - Food, Government, Pre-University Education, Healthcare and Funerals. No matter how bad the economy gets, people need to eat, children need to go to school, people still need medical care, dead people still need to be buried, and the government is always running.

If your your company's server shuts down, what do you do? Hire short-term workers to fix the problem and get rid of the workers when the problem is solved. Or outsource it to India - where you pay pennies on the dollar and probably don't have to pay for benefits. Or worst case scenario the company closes down and everyone loses their job. White collar workers generally do not have unions to fight for pay for them.

I don't think that your employer is going to ask you about loonies or toonies. You can state that in your resume if you think it will get you hired. I state that I can speak and write perfect English and I don't have an accent, it did not make any difference. The employment manager must be able to serve as your reference. Have you worked for him directly? Is he able to vouch that you were able to increase sales by say 400% in a single quarter or? A lot of jobs are obtained through networking. If you are such good friends with that manager, ask him to help you get a job. 80% of people I know who do get jobs in their first year go it through networking. Do you think any employer is going to spend that much time on one application when there are thousands more they have to sift through? Either way a large majority of immigrants have never lived in Canada before and an employer will take 1 look at their resume, assume that they have no canadian experience and not even bother giving it a second look.

Look at it from an employer's perspective. For every 1 job you will get an average of 400-500 applications. Do you think they are going to waste time reading through every single one of them? They will always go with what they are most familiar with - qualifications from universities they recognize, people who have worked at well-known companies, people who have local references that they can verify. During the Asian Economic Crisis in 1997-1998 I worked as a HR clerk. There was only 1 job advertised and we got 4,500 applications because everyone was unemployed. My boss instructed me to narrow it down to the top 50 applicants in 2 days and he will look at them. I was only a clerk and I had to decide which 4000 applications were rejected. I had so many applications to sift through I only had time to read the first 10 lines of every resume and I'm a fast reader. Of course I pick those who had degrees from universities I recognized like Harvard and Cambridge. Do you think an employer is going to waste time and money to call India or search up the name of an Indian company when they can spend less money on a local call to a Canadian company and search the business bureau. It is harder and more time consuming to verify foreign credentials and employment records.

Stopping applications for 3 months is actually going to increase backlog 'cos the people who were not able to apply in those 3 months will just wait and flood with applications again and even more people will apply because they are afraid that applications will close again. Putting limits are good, they are following the examples of the USA, UK and Australia. It will mean more jobs for citizens and immigrants already in Canada because they don't have to compete with incoming immigrants.

Canada has made it extremely easy for immigrants to come over, and now that they've increased the standards, people who didn't make the deadline are complaining. The had no idea how easy it was to immigrate in the first place compared to other countries.

If you dislike the system and are so unhappy with the government here why are you even thinking of coming here? I came over here because I like their system. I don't mind working blue collar jobs because it pays more than white collar jobs. I don't care if my Ph.D. is wasted because the money I make will allow me to retire early and I can enjoy my retirement while I am still young. I have not experienced any kind of racism in Canada but I have in Australia, the UK and the USA. As an immigrant you have to assimilate with their culture and not expect the government to bend to the needs of every immigrant and minority group.
 

maoist

Full Member
Jul 18, 2009
45
1
I once attended a short plumbing course (but didn't learn much).

Plumbing is a dirty job. Imagine stuck WC filled with shit -- and the instructor said - plumbers usually take their time to reach the customer's place if it is a stuck WC case -- hoping that the smell and some of shit will disappear when they arrive later.

Plumbing is not difficult. Anybody who has been a DIY person can easily pick up the basics. But to be a professional plumber, it takes months of apprenticeship or on the job training because there are so many different types of taps and WCs, etc. You also need some physical strength to turn tight screws, etc.



abelkwh said:
I guess its better to be a blue collar these days than a white one! Hahha

Plumbing jobs arent that bad either if i have the skills but then i need to be re-trained again!

So guess the next batch of new immigrants will have to be proficient in english and also professional grey or blue collars!
 

mediajunkie

Star Member
Sep 2, 2009
162
13
maoist said:
I once attended a short plumbing course (but didn't learn much).

Plumbing is a dirty job. Imagine stuck WC filled with *censored word* -- and the instructor said - plumbers usually take their time to reach the customer's place if it is a stuck WC case -- hoping that the smell and some of *censored word* will disappear when they arrive later.

Plumbing is not difficult. Anybody who has been a DIY person can easily pick up the basics. But to be a professional plumber, it takes months of apprenticeship or on the job training because there are so many different types of taps and WCs, etc. You also need some physical strength to turn tight screws, etc.
In Ontario you need 9000 hours of apprenticeship in order to become a licensed plumber. Before that you need to take an apprenticeship certificate which takes up 720 hours. Assuming a 40-hour work week that is 4.5 years of training needed to become a licensed plumber - more time than it takes to get a bachelors degree.