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RQ Solution : Exit Control

fasnoon

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Jul 31, 2007
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Solution is : EXIT CONTROL

It's not for everyone, Customs/Border Services just need to do this for PR Card holders only !

They already stamp your passport when you enter Canada, so why not stamp it on the way out? when you are leaving for vacation etc, they take a quick look at the passport anyway... right? Why not take a SECOND to stamp the EXIT date on it, that's it... then there will be no need for all the RQ documents & delays!! Then, simply subtract all the date stamps of the IN-OUT dates and get the exact number of days outside the country!

Or maybe have an electronic exit-log to save even more time, just they way they have set up automated kiosk's for when you come into Canada. They could simply slide your PR card to note the exit time, date, and along with card holder details when checking your passport on your way out. This way, the electronic "travel log" can be your new RESIDENCE CALCULATOR that goes with your application. This way applicants could ONLY apply for citizenship when they meet the residency conditions and this way there is no grey area, problem solved !

Only if CIC would implement a simple and logical solution in order to catch/control to problem before it happens rather than later running to hire/train additional staff to handle the increasing workload... which by the way, will keep increasing as the problem has not need addressed at the root level.
 

CanV

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Apr 30, 2012
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fasnoon said:
Solution is : EXIT CONTROL

It's not for everyone, Customs/Border Services just need to do this for PR Card holders only !

They already stamp your passport when you enter Canada, so why not stamp it on the way out? when you are leaving for vacation etc, they take a quick look at the passport anyway... right? Why not take a SECOND to stamp the EXIT date on it, that's it... then there will be no need for all the RQ documents & delays!! Then, simply subtract all the date stamps of the IN-OUT dates and get the exact number of days outside the country!

Or maybe have an electronic exit-log to save even more time, just they way they have set up automated kiosk's for when you come into Canada. They could simply slide your PR card to note the exit time, date, and along with card holder details when checking your passport on your way out. This way, the electronic "travel log" can be your new RESIDENCE CALCULATOR that goes with your application. This way applicants could ONLY apply for citizenship when they meet the residency conditions and this way there is no grey area, problem solved !

Only if CIC would implement a simple and logical solution in order to catch/control to problem before it happens rather than later running to hire/train additional staff to handle the increasing workload... which by the way, will keep increasing as the problem has not need addressed at the root level.
What a brilliant idea!!! Do you want to finance it?
 

fasnoon

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Jul 31, 2007
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound offensive... It was only an idea.
Would have cost less than the $41 million they already poured into the program...
 

scylla

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fasnoon said:
Sorry, didn't mean to sound offensive... It was only an idea.
Would have cost less than the $41 million they already poured into the program...
It would cost more than $41 million. It would mean changing the layout of every international airport in Canada to support an exit control desk for all international flights - plus hiring the staff to man these desks.
 

CanV

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fasnoon said:
Sorry, didn't mean to sound offensive... It was only an idea.
Would have cost less than the $41 million they already poured into the program...
You werent being offensive, I was being sarcastic. I think the cost is too high and it far exceeds the benefits of implementing such thing. Also remember in reality someone knows that you exited the country, there are more convenient ways for CIC to obtain such info but do they really care?

In any case remember that CBSA and CIC are 2 different things. Why would CBSA care if you exited the country?
 

admontreal

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Feb 15, 2011
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Actually CBSA is currently implementing this solution, as part of Beyond the Border Plan, conjointly with the US. But it is being delayed over and over because of operational constraints :

- Airlines companies should have started to systematically transmit all the outbound international flights passengers manifests by June 30th, but it was never done and no reason was given beside the 'operational constraints'

- US and Canada started exchanging data for all land crossings since June 30th. However this data is highly inaccurate and a lot of informal border crossings are still not subject to any controls

- No solution was given for outbound passengers by boat or flight. It means that the data will always be incomplete, thus unreliable, until ALL the outbound travelers are promptly registered in the system.

A similar system has been partially implemented in the US, but as we saw in the last aborted- US Immigration Act debates, it's still not reliable and inaccurate.

UK tried to bring back Exit controls and it was a complete fail, as only 55 % of exits were registered. Which renders this system useless for security and immigration purposes.

Although it brings some privacy questions, this system would highly beneficiate the Canadian government, as it would promptly help the officials to detect the fraudsters for :

-EI
-Immigration and Citizenship
-Tax
-Healthcare insurance

Among others. Moreover, as CBSA is the 'gatekeeper' of Canada, it seems natural that they would be the responsibles and sponsors of this project.
 

blueshirt

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Apr 28, 2014
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the concept of exit control is only for PR holder not passport holder so we poor immigrants can become canadian citizen without unnecessary RQ delays.
exit control is simple use a PR scanner machine to log exits. you dont need immigration desk and officers for that so no question of high investments which you guys discussing
 

admontreal

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It is still a Business and IT solution that necessitates :

buying PR scanners, connect them to a centralized system, manage the data and ensure of its confidentiality and integrity, training staff to use the PR scanners, deploying the machines to cover ALL points of exits, maintaining ALL the machines by managing their defects, managing the lifecycle of ALL that!

And so on.
With very modest and optimistic rates, I can assure you that we are skyrocketing the 20 M, for implementation only ... :D
 

BLT

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Jul 30, 2014
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They don't need to scan your PR card to find out that you are leaving the country. Airlines already sent data to them the moment you purchase the ticket. What being a concern to them is when you travel to USA by car or land transports. Most cheaters go back to their country from USA, so there is no record in Canada.
 

scylla

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BLT said:
They don't need to scan your PR card to find out that you are leaving the country. Airlines already sent data to them the moment you purchase the ticket. What being a concern to them is when you travel to USA by car or land transports. Most cheaters go back to their country from USA, so there is no record in Canada.
But that's not what the OP is saying. The OP wants passports to be stamped as people leave Canada.
 

scylla

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admontreal said:
It is still a Business and IT solution that necessitates :

buying PR scanners, connect them to a centralized system, manage the data and ensure of its confidentiality and integrity, training staff to use the PR scanners, deploying the machines to cover ALL points of exits, maintaining ALL the machines by managing their defects, managing the lifecycle of ALL that!

And so on.
With very modest and optimistic rates, I can assure you that we are skyrocketing the 20 M, for implementation only ... :D
Agreed. Canada has over 100 international airports. The costs would be well above $40 million. Add another zero at a minimum - if not more.
 

admontreal

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scylla said:
But that's not what the OP is saying. The OP wants passports to be stamped as people leave Canada.
In that case it's still even worse as they'll have to litterally change the configuration of all airports to create Exit stamping desks. Or at least leverage the existing Entry stamping ones. Imagine the delays it would create for inbound and outbound passengers.
 

admontreal

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BLT said:
Airlines already sent data to them the moment you purchase the ticket
I'm sorry but that's not the case. The government and the airlines operating in Canada couldn't even find an agreement last June for a data sending of international outbound flights only. Let alone the purchased tickets.
Moreover, a purchased ticket means absolutely nothing, as people can desist or couldn't make it to their flights.
In fact, it is the opposite that presents a problem. Since June Canada and US exchange all respective entry data by car (for citizens, PRs and 'Aliens'). The entry log in one country becomes the exit log for the other one. But there's still the issue of railways/boat travels that are not recorded under this initiative, in addition to the non-secured borders like Yukon/Alaska or Denmark/Canada where there're far more seals than CBSA agents...
 

Mary2009

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admontreal said:
in addition to the non-secured borders like Yukon/Alaska or Denmark/Canada where there're far more seals than CBSA agents...
What do you mean admontreal?
can you elaborate on this quoted part a bit more? :)
thnx
 

admontreal

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:D :D I'm sorry if I offended you in any manner. It's just a bad joke and I didn't pretend to know things I don't know about :D

The spirit of that sarcastic sentence is that in those regions (I've been to Alaska/Yukon but not in the NE territories), there is a very long border with a small number of CBSA agents and a very rude climate for most of the year, so implementing electronic exit control (or even controls only) would be very difficult.

And yes there's a Denmark/Canada land border (or kind of...) : http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island

PS : And for the Seals : http://syruptrap.ca/2014/01/tensions-erupt-over-hans-island/