Returned application - getting it right this time

[gordiewow]

Hi all- I had my family sponsorship PR application returned. The accompanying documentation just provided general information with blue highlighter over the documents that weren't correct. I have to interpret what they mean, so am guessing:

1) Generic Application Form: I think this error is pretty clear. My wife has a son who is 21 years old, and another who is 22. I had not included either on the application as a dependent. To my understanding now, the 21-year-old, will need to be added and a copy of his birth certificate added to the application (I think resolving Identity Document issue, which was also highlighted).

2) Additional Family Information: In the application form guide I now see it says, "This form must be filled out and signed by... all dependent children aged 18 or over (whether they are coming with you to Canada or not)." So her children have to sign it? There is nowhere to indicate where to sign this on the form or even a hint about this requirement on the actual form itself.

Am I correct in my assumption/guess that this is just confusingly worded and what they actually want is for each of my wife's children to sign a separate copy of this form? So all of the information is then filled out from the perspective of the sons (i.e. their father's name listed)?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can confirm this or correct me on it.

 

[mrs_december]

The child who is 21 and who fits the definition of a dependent will need to fill out and physically sign his own form. He will also need to provide a PCC prior to you re-submitting the application. (Double check that you are using all the most current versions of the forms and checklist.) Later on in the process the son will also need to have a medical exam, once it is requested.

 

[gordiewow]

Thank you for replying. Do you mean he needs to do a police check and medical even though he is not going to Canada with the family? This might not even be possible or at least not easily, as he lives and works far away from where my wife is. If you could point me to where this is on CIC website/info, that would be a big help in explaining it to him (and my wife )!

The child who is 21 and who fits the definition of a dependent will need to fill out and physically sign his own form. He will also need to provide a PCC prior to you re-submitting the application. (Double check that you are using all the most current versions of the forms and checklist.) Later on in the process the son will also need to have a medical exam, once it is requested.

 

[mrs_december]

Thank you for replying. Do you mean he needs to do a police check and medical even though he is not going to Canada with the family? This might not even be possible or at least not easily, as he lives and works far away from where my wife is. If you could point me to where this is on CIC website/info, that would be a big help in explaining it to him (and my wife )!

Yes, he must provide a police check and physical. All dependents are required to do so. Please note the document checklist: it clearly states that the principal applicant and all dependents (whether accompanying or not) are required to submit a completed Schedule A, a police certificate, additional family information form, the requested identity documents, and the medical which will be requested later. Make sure that you read the most current checklist CAREFULLY and make note of exactly what they are asking for. In the case of the PCC and physical, they are not required to have them done in any specific location, so proximity to your wife would not be an issue. The PCC is requested from your local authorities and the medical can be done by any CIC board physician, which you can find listed on the CIC website.

 

[gordiewow]

Thanks. They did not include this requirement in the highlighted portions in the documents that accompanied my returned application, but I don't want to take any chances.

For the family information (5406) "all other family members of the principal applicant." Surely, this cannot require separate forms from every family member listed there? Just myself, my wife and her children? My wife has nine brothers and sisters, some living in remote areas, and her mother is extremely aged.

In this case, I would be tempted to just leave them off the form altogether -- though I'm not sure if information on returned applications is filed before being returned. (I would of course do anything I can to make sure it is fully honest and accurate).

This form was also not highlighted as one of the incomplete ones but is this also to be interpreted as requiring a separate form from the 21-year-old son? Schedule A) Background/Declaration (IMM 5669): You (the principal applicant) and any of your family members 18 years of age or older (who are not already Canadian citizens or permanent residents) must fill out and sign their own copy of this form).

Thanks again

Yes, he must provide a police check and physical. All dependents are required to do so. Please note the document checklist: it clearly states that the principal applicant and all dependents (whether accompanying or not) are required to submit a completed Schedule A, a police certificate, additional family information form, the requested identity documents, and the medical which will be requested later. Make sure that you read the most current checklist CAREFULLY and make note of exactly what they are asking for. In the case of the PCC and physical, they are not required to have them done in any specific location, so proximity to your wife would not be an issue. The PCC is requested from your local authorities and the medical can be done by any CIC board physician, which you can find listed on the CIC website.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thanks. They did not include this requirement in the highlighted portions in the documents that accompanied my returned application, but I don't want to take any chances.

For the family information (5406) "all other family members of the principal applicant." Surely, this cannot require separate forms from every family member listed there? Just myself, my wife and her children? My wife has nine brothers and sisters, some living in remote areas, and her mother is extremely aged.

In this case, I would be tempted to just leave them off the form altogether -- though I'm not sure if information on returned applications is filed before being returned. (I would of course do anything I can to make sure it is fully honest and accurate).

This form was also not highlighted as one of the incomplete ones but is this also to be interpreted as requiring a separate form from the 21-year-old son? Schedule A) Background/Declaration (IMM 5669): You (the principal applicant) and any of your family members 18 years of age or older (who are not already Canadian citizens or permanent residents) must fill out and sign their own copy of this form).

Thanks again

From the guide:

Family members

An applicant’s closest relatives, in the context of an application. It is defined as a spouse or common-law partner, dependent children, and their dependent children.

As the 21 year old is a legal adult, have him sign a notarized declaration that he doesn't want to immigrate and refuses to do the medical, fill out forms or provide documents. Then get a notarized statement from your spouse stating that she understands that her child will be forever excluded from the Family Class.

 

[mrs_december]

Thanks. They did not include this requirement in the highlighted portions in the documents that accompanied my returned application, but I don't want to take any chances.

For the family information (5406) "all other family members of the principal applicant." Surely, this cannot require separate forms from every family member listed there? Just myself, my wife and her children? My wife has nine brothers and sisters, some living in remote areas, and her mother is extremely aged.

In this case, I would be tempted to just leave them off the form altogether -- though I'm not sure if information on returned applications is filed before being returned. (I would of course do anything I can to make sure it is fully honest and accurate).

This form was also not highlighted as one of the incomplete ones but is this also to be interpreted as requiring a separate form from the 21-year-old son? Schedule A) Background/Declaration (IMM 5669): You (the principal applicant) and any of your family members 18 years of age or older (who are not already Canadian citizens or permanent residents) must fill out and sign their own copy of this form).

Thanks again

If you look carefully at the Complete Guide in your application package, it goes into each of these items in detail, and the checklist lists specifically which documents should be included. Family members, for the purposes of the family information form, is the principal applicant and all dependents. This does not include the sponsor or any other extended family. The definition of "family members" is in the Complete Guide. This means that for a complete application, you should be including Add'l Family Information forms, Schedule As, Police Certificates, and requested identity documents for your wife and her 21 year old son. If you fail to include any of these documents in your re-submitted application, it's going to get returned again.

Your wife will be expected to list her extended family members on the Family Info form, but those individuals are not expected to complete forms. Do not leave anyone off the form. Complete all forms honestly and completely.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

If you look carefully at the Complete Guide in your application package, it goes into each of these items in detail, and the checklist lists specifically which documents should be included. Family members, for the purposes of the family information form, is the principal applicant and all dependents. This does not include the sponsor or any other extended family. The definition of "family members" is in the Complete Guide. This means that for a complete application, you should be including Add's Family Information forms, Schedule As, Police Certificates, and requested identity documents for your wife and her 21 year old son. If you fail to include any of these documents in your re-submitted application, it's going to get returned again.

Your wife will be expected to list her extended family members on the Family Info form, but those individuals are not expected to complete forms. Do not leave anyone off the form. Complete all forms honestly and completely.

It is simpler to just have the son formally refuse to be included.

 

[gordiewow]

Thank you both. I did not go to the glossary where family members are defined and seem to have misinterpreted that and other things in my initial application. I know now what I have to do and will update and re-file accordingly.