Renewing wife's PR as spouse of Canadian citizen

[ski]

Hello all,

I have been a Canadian citizen since 2019 and prior to that got my PR in 2014. Since August 2019, I have been living in Germany as my wife got a job here. We have been married for 7 years and we got married in Toronto. I had sponsored her for Canadian PR and she got it in January 2017. Her PR is about to expire in Feb 2022. She has lived less than a month in Canada, so she is nowhere near meeting residency requirements.

A couple of years back when I was researching the possibility of the spouse of a Canadian citizen maintaining PR status, there was a clause about who accompanied who. So if the spouse accompanied the citizen, the days spent abroad might count, but if it was the citizen who accompanies the spouse (which is my case), it would not count. Now, I checked out the latest residency requirements:
Can my time abroad count toward my permanent resident status? (cic.gc.ca)
This seems to state that if the spouse was with a citizen, the time spent would count. Has the rule changed and are they now more liberal about residency with respect to spouses of citizens?

Thanks in advance.

 

[scylla]

Hello all,

I have been a Canadian citizen since 2019 and prior to that got my PR in 2014. Since August 2019, I have been living in Germany as my wife got a job here. We have been married for 7 years and we got married in Toronto. I had sponsored her for Canadian PR and she got it in January 2017. Her PR is about to expire in Feb 2022. She has lived less than a month in Canada, so she is nowhere near meeting residency requirements.

A couple of years back when I was researching the possibility of the spouse of a Canadian citizen maintaining PR status, there was a clause about who accompanied who. So if the spouse accompanied the citizen, the days spent abroad might count, but if it was the citizen who accompanies the spouse (which is my case), it would not count. Now, I checked out the latest residency requirements:
Can my time abroad count toward my permanent resident status? (cic.gc.ca)
This seems to state that if the spouse was with a citizen, the time spent would count. Has the rule changed and are they now more liberal about residency with respect to spouses of citizens?

Thanks in advance.

The rule hasn't changed. It's just that the link above only provides a summary / overview of the rule and not the details.

You are correct in your understanding of the who accompanied whom rule. In practices, we are finding that IRCC often applies this rule but also sometimes does not. So it's a bit of a dice roll what would happen in your case. If IRCC applies the who accompanied whom rule, then the time won't be credited / counted. However there's always some chance they may not.

 

[ski]

Thanks for the quick response. If they do not count, she would need to first give up PR status and then re-apply with me sponsoring her? Or if the intention was to re-apply, will it be possible to just put in a new PR application?

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the quick response. If they do not count, she would need to first give up PR status and then re-apply with me sponsoring her? Or if the intention was to re-apply, will it be possible to just put in a new PR application?

She would need to officially renounce her status first before you can sponsor her again.

However, if you try to renew her PR status (or apply for a PRTD) and it is refused, that will automatically revoke her PR status. If she wants to fly to Canada, she needs either a valid PR card or valid PRTD to board the plane).

Another avenue to potentially try if her PR card is no longer valid is to fly to the US and to then re-enter Canada through a land border and hope she is not reported for failing to meet RO. She could then renew her PR card once she lives in Canada for 2 years.

Some of these answers or advice on best course of action depends on what you plan to return (i.e. now before her PR card expires or later after her PR card has expired).

 

[ski]

The fact that it would be revoked if her PR renewal is refused seems like the best move. If by some chance, it is approved, we are ok, and if it is revoked, we can start a fresh application.

We don't need to come to Canada soon. We are planning to return to Canada for good by the end of this year or sometime next year. So, if the entire process of renewal/revocation and/or new application is done within a year and a half, we should be ok.

Thanks so much for your response.

 

[scylla]

The fact that it would be revoked if her PR renewal is refused seems like the best move. If by some chance, it is approved, we are ok, and if it is revoked, we can start a fresh application.

We don't need to come to Canada soon. We are planning to return to Canada for good by the end of this year or sometime next year. So, if the entire process of renewal/revocation and/or new application is done within a year and a half, we should be ok.

Thanks so much for your response.

It sounds like you have a good plan in mind.

The one thing to keep in mind if you have to reapply for PR is that you will need to provide proof in the application that you plan to move back to Canada once the new PR visa is approved. This may be a bit challenging given how long you've been outside of Canada. Hopefully you've kept ties to Canada such as property or significant other assets since leaving. If you get to the point where you do need to re-sponsor your wife, spend time reading through discussions in the Family Sponsorship section of the forum on what kind of proof people provide to prove they are going to move to Canada.

 

[ski]

Thanks again. I don't have fixed assets like a house but both of us have our bank accounts in decent shape with sufficient funds to support ourselves. I will check out the sponsorship forums soon.

 

[dpenabill]

Hello all,

I have been a Canadian citizen since 2019 and prior to that got my PR in 2014. Since August 2019, I have been living in Germany as my wife got a job here. We have been married for 7 years and we got married in Toronto. I had sponsored her for Canadian PR and she got it in January 2017. Her PR is about to expire in Feb 2022. She has lived less than a month in Canada, so she is nowhere near meeting residency requirements.

A couple of years back when I was researching the possibility of the spouse of a Canadian citizen maintaining PR status, there was a clause about who accompanied who. So if the spouse accompanied the citizen, the days spent abroad might count, but if it was the citizen who accompanies the spouse (which is my case), it would not count. Now, I checked out the latest residency requirements:
Can my time abroad count toward my permanent resident status? (cic.gc.ca)
This seems to state that if the spouse was with a citizen, the time spent would count. Has the rule changed and are they now more liberal about residency with respect to spouses of citizens?

Thanks in advance.

I agree with the observations posted by @scylla but will add a bit regarding the who-accompanied-who issue.

Overall, unless policies and practices change significantly, there probably is little reason to worry; as long as you are living together, it should not matter why you are abroad. Especially so if you moved abroad together or at least close in time. That is, she should be given credit for time living abroad with you and thus be in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

Particular Observations:

First, there is an extensive discussion of this in the topic titled "Who-accompanied-whom can matter for PRs living with citizen spouse abroad: UPDATE" which is here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

Secondly, overall most indicators still suggest that IRCC does NOT question who-accompanied-who UNLESS

-- the PR never established any residence in Canada (thus could not have "accompanied" a spouse abroad, since they were not in Canada with a spouse before going abroad) OR​

-- there are other circumstances showing the PR has no real ties to a life in Canada and it is clear the citizen has gone abroad to join the PR, OR​

-- it otherwise appears the couple may not really be together abroad​

That is, for a couple who were settled and living in Canada before going abroad, who went abroad basically together, and it is clear they are living together abroad, there is little sign that IRCC questions why they went abroad or who was, in effect, going along to be with the other one. This is particularly so where the timing of the travel, of the move, indicates the couple essentially moved abroad together (not necessarily the same day, but timewise in relative proximity to one another), and they have been living together the whole time.

THAT COULD CHANGE without much notice, since the language of the statute is about accompanying the citizen spouse, not about cohabitating, and some cases (but just a small number so far as we know) have interpreted who-accompanied-who to be a deciding question. But so far there is little sign that IRCC is moving in that direction.

Which leads to . .

Thirdly, or more particularly, apart from what appears to be a lack of reporting related to Covid the last couple years, it appeared that CBSA/IRCC might have actually been trending toward more a more strict approach to the who-accompanied-who question. BUT, there was not a clear indication whether this was a change in approach or if the increased number of cases were due to identifying more PRs involving obviously egregious circumstances . . . meaning, more situations in which it was clear the PR's only tie to Canada was a citizen spouse and the citizen spouse had joined the PR abroad, the PR never really settling in Canada at all.

ADDITIONALLY:

A PR remains a PR UNLESS it is terminated by a formal decision (Reported and issued a Departure or Removal Order, or denied a PR Travel Document), or the PR becomes a citizen, or the PR formally renounces PR status. It is OK to let a PR card expire and remain expired. That does NOT affect the PR's status.

Technically a PR abroad accompanying a citizen spouse (mostly meaning living together) should not apply for a new PR card unless the PR actually returns to Canada to stay, at least stay beyond a mere visit. Rather, the PR in this situation is expected to obtain a PR Travel Document for any travel to Canada. There are many reports of such PRs coming briefly to Canada and successfully getting a new PR card. But this is not necessary.

 

[ski]

Thanks @dpenabill for the detailed response.

From the thread, a couple of red flags - after obtaining her PR status, she has less than 100 days of residency in her 5 year window. That is nowhere near the 730 day requirement. Though she lived in Canada for 9 years as a student before becoming a PR, once she got her PR, she never stayed. We have been living together abroad for the past three years and have sufficient proof. But I too left Canada immediately after becoming a citizen. So it would seem to any case officer that both of us grabbed our documents and rushed to the airport.

So trying to get credit for the time spent in Europe does appear to be a fairly shameless case of pushing the envelope. If I apply for a PRTD later, the risk of rejection would be fairly high and might disrupt our plans completely. It might be better to apply now for renewal of PR card, get the status revoked and plan a new PR application. To make the new application more credible, I could first come to Canada, and establish myself, and then start the sponsorship application.

 

[armoured]

Thanks @dpenabill for the detailed response.

From the thread, a couple of red flags - after obtaining her PR status, she has less than 100 days of residency in her 5 year window. That is nowhere near the 730 day requirement. Though she lived in Canada for 9 years as a student before becoming a PR, once she got her PR, she never stayed. We have been living together abroad for the past three years and have sufficient proof. But I too left Canada immediately after becoming a citizen. So it would seem to any case officer that both of us grabbed our documents and rushed to the airport.

So trying to get credit for the time spent in Europe does appear to be a fairly shameless case of pushing the envelope. If I apply for a PRTD later, the risk of rejection would be fairly high and might disrupt our plans completely. It might be better to apply now for renewal of PR card, get the status revoked and plan a new PR application. To make the new application more credible, I could first come to Canada, and establish myself, and then start the sponsorship application.

I won't claim to have great expertise on this, but since her PR card will expire in Feb 22, applying for a PRTD on the basis of accompanying does not seem that risky. You would have reasonable time if/once refused to start PR sponsorship process. I'm not sure there's any obvious benefit to renouncing or applying in such a way as to get the status revoked (if I understand your intent).

And while there are indeed 'flags' (I hesitate to say red), you will likely also have mitigating factors - such as your spouse's long period in Canada, job opportunity at end of studies (presumably important professionally), etc. Possibly how often you've travelled to Canada, and ... well, it's your task to put the case in such a way that the task is easier for IRCC officer to decide in your favour.

(I suspect also that IRCC knows for spousal cases rejection may jsut mean a new sponsorship application, and be looking - partly at least - for confirmation that both individuals really intend to return to Canada together, and not just keep rolling the PR status forever. So make your case)

Anyway, apply for the PRTD, and if approved, she applies for a new PR card once back in Canada. If denied, deal with the sponsorship process - more or less where you'd stand right now anyway.

Note, there are some other factors here - like whether spouse is from a visa waiver country or not - that may play into your decision, not trying to address every eventuality here.

 

[ski]

Thanks @armoured for your response.

The problem with applying for PRTD is that we would need to go back to Canada soon after it would be granted. That would not be possible as both of us are working and with Covid restrictions in place, traveling now is extremely uncertain and things don't look to get better anytime soon. Neither of us have boarded an airplane since 2019 and I wonder if we will in 2022.

So a PRTD application would have been made towards the end of the year or early next year when we do intend to go back for good. If at that time, the application is rejected, we would then have to start a sponsorship application which might take another year. Her passport is not a western one and she needs a visa to visit Canada (and for that matter every other country). So we both will have to continue our stay in Europe or spend some time in her country.

If instead we start a PR card renewal now, we have sufficient time to deal with any rejections as we have a year and half as buffer before we plan to go back to Canada. It does seem like an odd thing to do as I am applying hoping to win a lottery (PR miraculously renewed) or hoping to get rejected (who in their right mind applies hoping to get rejected). But taking into account our time frame and the potential flags in our application, this seems to be the smoothest option.

 

[armoured]

The problem with applying for PRTD is that we would need to go back to Canada soon after it would be granted.

I think you should look through the various threads where individuals have successfully received PRTDs on basis of accompanying a citizen. I am not certain but recall that most have been granted multi-entry PRTDs with validity of one year - and I'm leaving aside the cases of those that got PR cards. I also think that in many/most cases where the 'accompanying' case has been established the PRTDs get renewed without too much difficulty (although not infinitely).

Looked at in that light - PRTDs granted longer-tenor and renewed relatively commonly - it seems most of your points about timing become non-issues. (And if refused, should be reasonably quick and you start sponsorship process anyway)

But repeat, since I don't claim to expertise, this seems a factual point which you can look into (rather than based on assumptions which may be incorrect).

 

[dpenabill]

From the thread, a couple of red flags - after obtaining her PR status, she has less than 100 days of residency in her 5 year window. That is nowhere near the 730 day requirement. Though she lived in Canada for 9 years as a student before becoming a PR, once she got her PR, she never stayed. We have been living together abroad for the past three years and have sufficient proof. But I too left Canada immediately after becoming a citizen. So it would seem to any case officer that both of us grabbed our documents and rushed to the airport.

So trying to get credit for the time spent in Europe does appear to be a fairly shameless case of pushing the envelope. If I apply for a PRTD later, the risk of rejection would be fairly high and might disrupt our plans completely. It might be better to apply now for renewal of PR card, get the status revoked and plan a new PR application. To make the new application more credible, I could first come to Canada, and establish myself, and then start the sponsorship application.

And Considering Other Subsequent Posts --

No disagreements with observations by @armoured and quite a lot explicit concurrence.

While there is a potential issue about RO compliance, and sure the PR's short period of time in Canada after date of landing may be something of a flag, the odds are that living together is enough to get credit for being abroad with (that is, technically, "accompanying") the PR's Canadian citizen spouse.

And I say this even though it will be very apparent in the travel history the PR reports, in either a PR card application or a PR TD application, that the exit from Canada was very soon after the date of becoming a PR.

Moreover, your leaving Canada soon after becoming a citizen should not be a flag, not a significant one.

All of which is to say that the odds of a successful PR TD application are probably quite good. The cases in which credit is challenged let alone denied for genuine spouses of Canadian citizens seem to be uncommon exceptions . . . there are enough to raise awareness of the issue, but there is little indication that IRCC is overtly screening for these cases . . . my sense is that the case must be virtually screaming negative for IRCC to take notice let alone proceed negatively in these cases. Remember, IRCC is NOT in the Gotcha Game.

And if your spouse carries a passport that will allow travel via the U.S., that would probably make it worth gambling on getting a PR TD when the time comes (of course each individual has to weigh these things for themselves; and I am NO expert), since the worst case scenario is to appeal the denied PR TD application, travel to Canada via the U.S., and have status to work in Canada (edited to correct erroneous reference to the U.S.) while the appeal is pending.

Thus, if returning through the U.S. is possible, the PR can come to Canada to live and, if the two of you are by then settled in Canada, there is a very good chance of winning the appeal either on a legal basis (credit should have been given) or alternatively for H&C reasons, reasons including that as a couple you understood the PR was complying with the PR RO by living with the PR's Canadian citizen spouse. Winning the appeal means that PR status never actually lost.

Even if the appeal is lost (seems unlikely if by then the PR is living in Canada), if the PR is in Canada the couple can initiate an IN Canada sponsorship application with a good chance it will not take long for the former PR, the sponsored spouse, to be granted at least an open work permit while the sponsorship application proceeds.

But of course you and your spouse need to evaluate all the factors and considerations and make what is the best decisions you can based on your situation. I would just note that on its face, if you are a genuine couple living abroad together, on its face the PR spouse should get RO credit for the time together abroad and thus not be in breach of the RO. Initiate return procedures, including applying for a PR TD, WHEN READY.

 

[ski]

Thanks again for your responses.

I will look into a PRTD application. Since our plans are flexible, the best course of action would be to apply for a PRTD a few months before we might be ready to leave for Canada. If that is granted, all is well - we go to Canada and apply for her PR card from inside Canada. If the PRTD is rejected, we prepare for a new sponsorship application. In that case, we would extend our stay in Germany until that is resolved. Alternatively, I might go first to Canada before starting the application as then it would be more convincing that we plan to settle in Canada.

Going to the US is not an option for either of us. Rather than try to stay in the US and apply on H&C grounds, we would start a fresh application from Europe.

As for proof of living together in Germany, we have tons of proof - official in terms of registering with the city, bills paid, rental agreement etc and unofficial in terms of holidays and events.

 

[dpenabill]

Thanks again for your responses.

I will look into a PRTD application. Since our plans are flexible, the best course of action would be to apply for a PRTD a few months before we might be ready to leave for Canada. If that is granted, all is well - we go to Canada and apply for her PR card from inside Canada. If the PRTD is rejected, we prepare for a new sponsorship application. In that case, we would extend our stay in Germany until that is resolved. Alternatively, I might go first to Canada before starting the application as then it would be more convincing that we plan to settle in Canada.

Going to the US is not an option for either of us. Rather than try to stay in the US and apply on H&C grounds, we would start a fresh application from Europe.

As for proof of living together in Germany, we have tons of proof - official in terms of registering with the city, bills paid, rental agreement etc and unofficial in terms of holidays and events.

Sorry, I made an error . . . I intended to refer to just traveling via, or through the U.S., to get to a land border crossing into Canada.

You, as a Canadian citizen, for sure can travel via the U.S., unless you personally are prohibited from entering the U.S. (which would indicate, well, a more complicated scenario).

Whether your spouse can travel via the U.S. depends on what passport your spouse carries.

In any event, I was referring to getting to Canada to stay IN CANADA pending an appeal of the denied PR TD (IF it is denied). While the appeal is pending, your spouse would still be a PR. It is just that if the PR has not been in Canada within the previous year, to get to Canada during the appeal process is mostly limited to those who can travel through the U.S. (If the PR has been in Canada within the previous year, they will almost always be issued, upon application, a special PR TD to come to Canada pending the appeal.)