Renewal Of PR under special consideration.

[Suavemec]

Hi

We had receievd our family PR visas in September 2009 and moved to Canada in March 2010. My wife and Daughter (then 5 years old) had to move back to India, our country of origin, after a month due to the death of my divorcee sister (passed away in May 2009), a few months before we were issued the visas, to take care of my nephew (then 12 years old), who, then was dependant and staying with us back in India. Before moving to Canada, I had filed for his guardianship in the court in January 2010, to take custody of my nephew so that we could apply for a PR for him as well.

Though I continued to stay alone in Canada for another around 6 months, I had to return back to India due to variuos issues rleated to my Nephew, one being his psychological health. Unfortunately the guardianship case dragged for another 2 years and my family and me were forced to stay back taking care of my nephew and we finally received my nephews legal guardianship in the end of January 2013. Inorder to fulfil the required 730 days to renew the PR, my wife and daughter should have moved in April 2013, but could not as we were unable to leave back my nephew with my ageing mother (widow, 74 years old) and were stuck.

Due to a sequence of unfortunate incidents, basically resulting due to the untimely death of my sister, we were unable to fulfil our stay of 2 years.

Our PR's are still valid until 6th April 2015. As of now, I have around 200 days and my wife and daughter have just 28 days of stay in Canada.

We intend to move back again to Canada after winter by the end of March 2014, as my older brother, who works on Ship will be settling down with a land job in India and will be taking care of my nephews responsibilty. By the time we will be in the position to apply to for a renewal of our PR's in April 2015, I will be having around 570 days, whereas my wife and my daughter will be having 395 days of stays in Canada.

I understand that Canadian Government does consider special cases for renewal on compassionate grounds if relevant documents are fowarded to prove an unfortunate case (as ours). I do posses all the relevant documents proving my sisters death and the court papers of my nephews case proceedings. Could you please advise me of the possibility of renewal of our PR's under a scenario as such.

What would be the chances?

Will it possible for us to present our case well in advance before our PR's expire in April 2015 or do we have to present our case at the time of expiry.

Since our PR's are still alive and we have a second chance on our hand, we really desire to move back once again but do not want to return back to India in the event extensions are not granted to us. I have heard that in the past extensions have been granted on passionate grounds and PR's have been renewed in some cases, even though the required 730 days were not met. Do you think my case will qualify for such a consideration.

Please kindly advise your thoughts. Your guidance will be highly appreciated here to give us a direction. Thanks!

 

[Msafiri]

Its always best to apply on the basis of 730 days. If you can hang tight in Canada after arrival until you have the 730 days then do so and apply for PR Cards after. You do not need a PR Card to reside in Canada though you will have some admin type hurdles without one such as difficulty in obtaining/ renewing a BC drivers license but you can avoid this by getting such types of documents prior to the expiry of your PR Card.

I think your H&C angle depends on you proving the guardianship angle - the first flag and expected challenge by CIC is why you had to be there given that your spouse was already in India dealing with this situation. CIC will also ask how you survived and will try to sell the you were working in India angle. Did you quit your job in India prior to landing? Your sisters death is back in 2009 so CIC may argue you've had more than enough time to resolve any issues. You have a better chance of success than others on the forum who rely on weaker H&C grounds but you are best to get some legal assistance with this so you can prepare a solid case with strong documentary proof including the guardianship process in India as the courts will thoroughly review this at the behest of the CIC lawyer!

 

[Leon]

When you enter Canada with your still valid PR card, there are two possibilities. They may report you for not meeting the residency requirements or they might not.

If they do, you have to appeal for your PR. The appeal can take 12-18 months and during this time, I find it very unlikely that they will let you sponsor your nephew although you can try. You could also try to bring him over on a TRP based on H&C grounds.

If they don't report you, you are in the situation of being in Canada without meeting the RO but without having been reported so you have the option of laying low for 2 years until you meet the RO again and not having to go through an appeal. If you apply to sponsor your nephew during this 2 year period, you can expect having to go through an appeal again because immigration will see from your address history that you do not meet the RO.

 

[Suavemec]

Hi Leon,

Really appreciate your input!

In all probablities I feel they will report us for not meeting the residency requirements, but if they dont, then we would be lucky! I am ready to appeal for my extension and my nephew can continue to stay with my brother in India until we get a clearence from CIC and we are in the position to sponsor him. I feel I have all the relevant documents related to my nephews guardianship case for which I was the applicant. Thanks for advising me on the TRP. That option could be worth looking into.

From the discussions here, what I understand is that we can lay low & continue to stay in Canada, even after the expiry of the PR cards and amass those 730 days before applying for an extension, but then would the days after the PR expiry be counted and considered to make us eligible for an extension? Please advise...

Also will there be a problem in getting an admission in a college or any institute incase if I need to do a bridging course or something. Will we be allowed to continue working, incase we find jobs, during the period after the expiry where our SIN's will be on records. Also, will we be entitled for the medical benefits after the PR expiry? I guess we will be deprived of all such facilities one is entitled to with a valid PR card. Please enlighten.

 

[Suavemec]

Hi Msafiri

Thanks for the valauble piece of information.

I am glad to know that PR card is not required and that one can continue to stay even after a PR card is expired sans certain benefits, the benefits or what you refer to admin problems, of which I am not very clear. I am confused if we will be entitiled for the important benefits such as the medical benefits, etc once the PR card expires. I guess by asking us to "hang tight " you are advising us to continue to stay after the PR expiry and to complete those 730 days for renewing the PR.

Further, I understand of the confronting questions that may be raised, as listed by you and I feel I have answers to them, as our case is supported by genuine facts based on all what has happened, a sequence of true and unfortunate incidents. So there's no lying about them...Off course we will be getting legal help to make a formal and a more stronger and proper appeal.

Could you please elaborate on the difficulties one may face whilst staying without a valid PR (after the expiry), like depriving of medical benefits, etc. Are you entitled to continue getting the medical and other benefits, as offered to a valid PR holder on the basis of the SIN cards and the health card issed to us?

Thanks!

 

[Msafiri]

Yes hang tight means stay put in Canada until you get to 730 days. Its best to apply with a buffer of an additional say 5-10 days for each trip you made outside Canada.

You are still a PR with all associated rights in Canada even without a PR Card i.e mobility, health etc. However many of these services require both immigration status and residence in the Province. Proof of status is provided by among others PR Card, COPR, Form IMM1000 Record of Landing etc with proof of residence to include set utility bills etc.

However some government bodies are insisting on a valid PR Card as the only proof of PR Status. The PR Card is really a status card for travel purposes as per the IRPA so these bodies shouldn't be doing this but they are and until this is challenged in the courts then they will continue to do so. This is called function creep where one use for the card is slowly morphing to other uses. The main body mandating PR Card provision at this time is the BC government for Driving License issuance - they need a valid PR Card no other options. Unless you have some deep pockets do you want to take the BC government to court especially when the reason you don't have a valid PR Card is due to not meeting the RO?

Get your health cards, DL, SIN etc while your PR Card is still valid is the message.

 

[Suavemec]

Hi Msafiri

Now thats a very interesting and extremely important piece of information you have provided on the importance of a PR card. Thanks a ton!

By default one is under an impression that a PR card is the most important document and that you cannot continue to stay in Canada unless it is renewed. But as I understand from your discussion, its more for travel prupose. It actually acts like a visa. Pls correct me if I'am wrong here.

Whether we have a valid PR or not, we can still accumulate the required 730 days to apply for a new PR card (only to be able to travel again out of Canada) and apply for the citizenship on completion of 3 years or 1095 days, in the previuos 4 years. If this is true, then I really do not have to bother to appeal for an extension of PR if I am not questioned at the time of my landing. My fear is - we should not be denied a stay or asked to leave Canada after the expiry of our PR cards, coz we will be resigning from our jobs and my child will be taking a leaving certificate in our country of origin, looking forward to a permanent relocation. Returning back to the CO would be out of question then.

Also do you think we will be denied entry if the customs official knows that we have not met the obligation of 730 days? Please kindly advise. Thanks!

 

[Msafiri]

1. Yes you do not from an immigration law perspective require a PR Card to live in Canada as a PR. So you can live in Canada post the PR Card expiry date and go on about your daily life. However expect some hassle in some admin type activities as I pointed out earlier.

2. The PR Card is a status card for travel purposes i.e. re-entry into Canada. The law presumes that those seeking admission and holding a PR Card are PRs but it doesn't mean you just get waved through at the border. Depending on the agent you find then you may indeed just get waved through or they may question you extensively on your absences. If the border agent decides/ is of the opinion you are in breach of the RO they can report you. Based on what we see on this forum most border agents let the breach slide and they don't report but its not like you know what you will get on your entry. All a roll of the dice which is why the safest thing to do is always be within your RO at any entry during time as a PR. The RO problem goes away once you are a Citizen with the unrestricted right of entry into Canada.

3. For PR Card renewal CIC only look at the previous 5 years and for citizenship the previous 4 years from application date.

 

[Suavemec]

Hello Msafiri

Thanks again! Really appreciate you sparing your precious time for this discussion.

I do have valid Driving License & All 3 of us have our Medical health cards and SIN cards that were issued to us in Alberta. I will have to get them transferred to Ontario. Can you please tell me how long it would take to have these transferred from Alberta to Ontario?

Assuming that we will land on 5th of April 2014, I will have amassed around 575 days until my PR expires on 7th April 2015 (200 days from my previous stay and a year, 365 days from 2014 to 2015). I will be short of around 160 days for those 730 days. In that case, will be entitled to apply for an extension after staying for another 160 days OR do I have once again stay for solid 730 days and then reapply.

It would be really important for me to get the PR card back asap as my profession calls for travelling overseas. Though chances of finding a job right away are very slim, if I am lucky and have one, I should be able to travel out of Canada with a valid PR. If I have to once again stay put for another 730 days, then I may not be able to secure a job or lose it if I have one. Please please advise me. From your discussions, I think I should be in the position to reapply for an extension immediately after completing 730 days (i.e. staying for another 160 days in my case) but I am not very sure here.

Thanks again!

 

[Msafiri]

OHIP provides health coverage in Ontario and there is a 3 month waiting period for those new to the province. Usually Alberta Health Services (AHS) would cover the 3 month waiting period i.e. you show your AB health card when you get treated in ON. The clinic can insist on payment upfront, give you a receipt and you deal with getting a refund from AB. However AB coverage depends on if AHS decide you meet the provincial residence requirements which requires you to live and reside in AB for a minimum period each year - IIRC its 180 days per year. This is to prevent health tourism where PRs etc don't live in Canada but want to use the health care system. You may get a huge bill if you get treated and AHS decides you are not covered so you may want to call them before getting any treatment.

You will need 730 days of physical presence in the 5 years prior to the PR Card application date. The 5 year block is on a rolling basis ie every day it moves forward by 1 day. This means you lose anytime in Canada prior to the rolling 5 year window. If most of your presence in Canada was soon after landing you may find that you need to spend more than the 160 days to get to 730 because you will lose any days outside the 5 year block prior to the date you get to the 160 days you state you require.

This forum is replete with PR Card holders who lost PR for employment reasons. Unless your employer is willing to sponsor you for a Work Permit if you lose PR status then you may need to consider choosing your PR over the job. Most PRs in this situation are actually 'self employed' or work overseas with visits to Canada. The Gulf region understandably is often where many are based. I say these since most of them don't argue the 'assigned overseas by a Canadian business exemption' allowed for PR Card renewal.

Those without an employer sponsor either get sponsored by their spouse who meets the RO or apply for immigration from scratch. The PR status is not a glorified visitors visa its for you to live in Canada is the message from CIC and the Courts.

 

[Leon]

If you left AB in 2010 and haven't lived in Canada since then, you would not have health coverage any more even though you still have valid health cards. Health care in Canada is always based on living in your province, usually at least 6 months a year and you are supposed to notify them if you move. Therefore, it would not be safe trying to use your AB health cards after you move to ON without clearing it with AB health that you are still covered. Otherwise, apply for a new health card in ON, you will get it after 3 months.

 

[Suavemec]

Thanks Msafiri,

Very clear on the health care system now. My case would be similar to a new immigrant who is not insured until a health card is issued. Usually the new immigrants buy an insurance policy in their country of origin for those 3 months before they leave, so that they can claim expenses in the even of any medical emergency. I'll have to do that for me and my family as well. I guess that should work.

Also it's very clear from the discussions that I will lose those 200 odd days I spent in 2010, and that all 3 of us will have to stay for a solid 730 days (+ buffer days) to have our PR statuses renewed. What exactly is "Assigned overseas by a Canadian business exemption" ? Is it a clause which provides the self employed or businessmen some exemptions and allows them to renew the PR statuses with meeting the RO? I will have to be employed without leaving Canada for another 730 days + 3 months until I get back my renewed PR status.

Will I have difficulty in getting myself enrolled for a bridging course in an institute or an University without the PR status. Will I be denied financial loan for such a course. Please advise. I had plans of doing a course before attempting to apply in my field, but I may have to apply for financial help for that.

 

[Suavemec]

Hi Leon

Thanks for pointing that out. I will have to buy an insurance policy back in my country of origin before leaving, as all the immigrants do before entering for the first time. I guess that should work. I can apply for the heath card immediately once we land.

Thanks!

 

[Msafiri]

The immigration law ignores some PR absences from Canada as if they were actually in Canada days.

One such case is where the PR is assigned overseas on a full time basis by a Canadian Business. There is a strict criteria defining both the Canadian Business and the type of contract/employment that you must first be employed in Canada then assigned abroad. This exemption was really for TSE listed major organizations sending their personnel on secondment. Its clearly excludes small business set ups which are to try and avoid the RO. Don't bother setting up some incorporation as CIC will see you coming from a mile.

Several PR holders here have lost PR through being 'employed' overseas - they never get to use the allowable exemption above to rescue their PR since the 'employment' overseas doesn't meet the criteria. Clearly most of these PRs are self employed or actually employed overseas already with the Gulf region seemingly being a major area where they actually reside.

Check with the relevant institutions as to their requirements. They will also advise on financial aid options.

 

[Leon]

Very clear on the health care system now. My case would be similar to a new immigrant who is not insured until a health card is issued. Usually the new immigrants buy an insurance policy in their country of origin for those 3 months before they leave, so that they can claim expenses in the even of any medical emergency. I'll have to do that for me and my family as well. I guess that should work.

Also it's very clear from the discussions that I will lose those 200 odd days I spent in 2010, and that all 3 of us will have to stay for a solid 730 days (+ buffer days) to have our PR statuses renewed. What exactly is "Assigned overseas by a Canadian business exemption" ? Is it a clause which provides the self employed or businessmen some exemptions and allows them to renew the PR statuses with meeting the RO? I will have to be employed without leaving Canada for another 730 days + 3 months until I get back my renewed PR status.

Will I have difficulty in getting myself enrolled for a bridging course in an institute or an University without the PR status. Will I be denied financial loan for such a course. Please advise. I had plans of doing a course before attempting to apply in my field, but I may have to apply for financial help for that.

You are right. You should take some kind of travel insurance for emergencies until you get your health care coverage.

If you have spent more than 3 years outside Canada, you will be unable to use any time spent in Canada before the 3 year period because this time has moved outside of the window of the last 5 years before you can reach enough days to add up to 730. Therefore, you are right, you must spend 730 days in Canada before you can apply to renew your PR card.

You are not without PR status, you are still a PR unless immigration rules that you have lost your status. You shouldn't have a problem enrolling at university with your still valid PR card. The university can help you applying for financial aid.