Preparing for an Expired PR

[Visitor19972]

Hi All,

My PR card is about to expire in a few months and I have not met the PR obligations (I got it in 2020 during COVID and then they took years to tell me I can't get my family with me on a visit visa).....anyway, I have been told that I would be able to cross into Canada in the future by land border from USA even on an expired PR card. So I wanted to check a few things.

1. Is there anything I can do now in Canada to improve my chances or ensure I can cross through the land-border in the future if I ever needed to go back ?
2. Is it true that I can in-fact cross by land border on an expired card (even if it has been several years for example) ?
3. If true - then how likely is it that the land border agent will initiate a revocation of my PR Card ?

Thanks !

 

[Besram]

Hi All,

My PR card is about to expire in a few months and I have not met the PR obligations (I got it in 2020 during COVID and then they took years to tell me I can't get my family with me on a visit visa).....anyway, I have been told that I would be able to cross into Canada in the future by land border from USA even on an expired PR card. So I wanted to check a few things.

1. Is there anything I can do now in Canada to improve my chances or ensure I can cross through the land-border in the future if I ever needed to go back ?
2. Is it true that I can in-fact cross by land border on an expired card (even if it has been several years for example) ?
3. If true - then how likely is it that the land border agent will initiate a revocation of my PR Card ?

Thanks !

1. Are you currently in Canada? If yes, by far the best thing to do is to stay in Canada until you are in compliance. Otherwise, make sure you have a SIN number and a driver's licence. Often you will need your (unexpired) PR card to get these.

2. Yes.

3. Impossible to say because it depends on many factors. Not having a valid PR card most definitely increases your chances of being referred to secondary inspection, which in turn can result in a report for failure to meet the residency obligation. Factors considered for such a report include things like the reasons for your absence, the extent of non-compliance, whether you returned at the earliest opportunity and (an important factor) the level of establishment in Canada.

 

[Visitor19972]

1. Are you currently in Canada? If yes, by far the best thing to do is to stay in Canada until you are in compliance. Otherwise, make sure you have a SIN number and a driver's licence. Often you will need your (unexpired) PR card to get these.

2. Yes.

3. Impossible to say because it depends on many factors. Not having a valid PR card most definitely increases your chances of being referred to secondary inspection, which in turn can result in a report for failure to meet the residency obligation. Factors considered for such a report include things like the reasons for your absence, the extent of non-compliance, whether you returned at the earliest opportunity and (an important factor) the level of establishment in Canada.

I'm not in Canada and I only really spent the equivalent of a week in Canada. (Long story, but I got my PR in 2020 and COVID wasted several years for me). I do have a SIN number but no driving license, though it's something I can easily get if it makes a difference.
Would it help if I'm renting an apartment for example or own a property ?

 

[Besram]

I'm not in Canada and I only really spent the equivalent of a week in Canada. (Long story, but I got my PR in 2020 and COVID wasted several years for me). I do have a SIN number but no driving license, though it's something I can easily get if it makes a difference.
Would it help if I'm renting an apartment for example or own a property ?

Having a driver's license will likely not at all help with keeping your PR, but it is a practical consideration when / if you do decide to come back. If you don't get reported at the border (or you do, and you decide to appeal), you might want to drive in Canada. You can do so on your international license for up to 90 days, but afterwards you typically need a local license. And getting one often requires a valid PR card, though it does depend on the province.

As for renting or purchasing property, that seems like a big expense with doubtful benefit. The simple fact of the matter is that your establishment in Canada is very low (based on what you wrote above), and I don't think a border or visa officer would take a different view just because you are paying rent without living here. It won't counter the fact that you've only spent a week in Canada.

If you got your PR in 2020, you should still have at least 6 months or so left on your PR card. If you really care about keeping your PR status, your best bet is to return as soon as possible while your card is still valid and stay in Canada until you meet the RO. Even that carries some risk of being reported because you are already out of compliance, but your chances are probably better because you don't have the red flag of an expired PR card, which means a lower risk of being referred to a secondary inspection upon entry.

 

[canuck78]

Would add that if family sponsorship is your goal you should wait until you meet your RO to sponsor them which would be 2 years. That may mean an over 2 year separation since you should not leave if you enter until you meet RO.

 

[Ponga]

Would add that if family sponsorship is your goal you should wait until you meet your RO to sponsor them which would be 2 years. That may mean an over 2 year separation since you should not leave if you enter until you meet RO.

There has been recent debate/discussion as to whether or not sponsor's non-compliance with their R.O. is actually a barrier preventing them to sponsor.

No idea what the real answer is.

 

[armoured]

There has been recent debate/discussion as to whether or not sponsor's non-compliance with their R.O. is actually a barrier preventing them to sponsor.

No idea what the real answer is.

I do not know for certain either. I took a look at the operational guidelines and the IRP regulations, and this is all I have:
1) Any applicant who has a 44(1) report OPEN will have their application to sponsor suspended until it is resolved.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/page-20.html

Suspension during proceedings against sponsor or co-signer

• 136 (1) If any of the following proceedings are brought against a sponsor or co-signer, the sponsorship application shall not be processed until there has been a final determination of the proceeding:
  • (a) the revocation of citizenship under the Citizenship Act;
  • (b) a report prepared under subsection 44(1) of the Act; or
  • (c) a charge alleging the commission of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years.

2) The operational guidelines do (of course) reiterate the parts that are in the law / regulations (as above, and others), but don't directly address what happens if the sponsor is out of compliance with the RO:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-assessing-sponsor.html#legislative

It does also state the other requirements, like residing in Canada for a PR.

I can only, therefore, conclude that it is up to the IRCC internally to decide whether they wish to proceed with processing, or let it 'age', or initiate a 44(1) report.

It may be that there's somewhere a specific policy about intiitating 44(1) reports in these circumstances, or more generally that apply to this case, but I haven't seen it.

 

[dpenabill]

My PR card is about to expire in a few months and I have not met the PR obligations (I got it in 2020 during COVID and then they took years to tell me I can't get my family with me on a visit visa).....anyway, I have been told that I would be able to cross into Canada in the future by land border from USA even on an expired PR card. So I wanted to check a few things.

1. Is there anything I can do now in Canada to improve my chances or ensure I can cross through the land-border in the future if I ever needed to go back ?
2. Is it true that I can in-fact cross by land border on an expired card (even if it has been several years for example) ?
3. If true - then how likely is it that the land border agent will initiate a revocation of my PR Card ?

@Besram has provided good responses which I largely agree with. One part of those posts warrant some emphasis and a caveat:

If you really care about keeping your PR status, your best bet is to return as soon as possible while your card is still valid and stay in Canada until you meet the RO. Even that carries some risk of being reported because you are already out of compliance, but your chances are probably better because you don't have the red flag of an expired PR card, which means a lower risk of being referred to a secondary inspection upon entry.

I fully agree and, again, this warrants emphasis.

The caveat:

I agree with the observation (in the first post by @Besram) that it is impossible to say what the precise odds are, and that your chances depend on the particular circumstances in your situation, including the examples referenced.

Notwithstanding what we do not know and cannot reliably forecast, there are some general aspects of how these go that influence the odds.

The biggest unknown: The chance of being waived through Primary Inspection is the biggest unknown. As long as you have a valid PR card to present, anecdotal reporting suggests there is at least a significant chance of being waived through, which would mean no detailed examination into your compliance with the Residency Obligation. Once in Canada you can stay, and if you do not engage in any transactions with IRCC that triggers a Residency Determination, you can totally cure the breach by staying 730 days.

Once your card has expired, there may still be some chance of being waived through Primary Inspection but the odds are dramatically worse.

Odds of H&C relief: The other big unknown is what your chances are of getting H&C relief if you are examined in Secondary. Again, this will depend on the particular circumstances in your situation, including the examples referenced by @Besram.

Meanwhile, absent a strong H&C case the odds against saving PR status get significantly worse the longer it has been since your last day in Canada and the closer to the PR card expiration date. In particular, if at this juncture it has been more than three years since you were last in Canada (which appears to be the case), the fact you are in breach of the Residency Obligation is obvious on the face of things, no need to do any arithmetic, no need to calculate days in, days out. It is simple: if you arrive here tomorrow, July 24, 2024, and the last time you were in Canada was before July 23, 2021, that is enough information to definitively conclude you are in breach of the RO. So, again, your best chance largely depends on whether presentation of a valid PR card gets you waived through Primary, no close look at compliance with the RO.

Family Class Sponsorship and RO Compliance:

The caution posted by @canuck78 is well-founded.

That said, since a Residency Determination is not a required element in determining the sponsor's qualification to sponsor a family class PR visa application (see information posted by @armoured above), here too what is unknown are the odds the application triggers a Residency Determination and preparation of a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility due to a RO breach, and if so, whether H&C relief allows the PR-sponsor to keep PR status.

Not sure what "debate" there has been. There have been enough anecdotal reports in conjunction with actual cases reported in officially published IAD decisions to KNOW that a sponsorship application by a PR in breach of the RO sometimes triggers inadmissibility proceedings. There has also been enough anecdotal reporting to reliably conclude that being in breach of the RO when making an application to sponsor family does not always trigger inadmissibility proceedings.

It warrants noting that even though the application for a new PR card does include a Residency Determination (so here too, the conventional wisdom is to stay in Canada long enough to get into RO compliance before making a PR card application), it is clear (should be no debate) that whether IRCC even prepares a 44(1) Report, let alone whether it proceeds to issue a Removal Order, varies depending on the particular situation. While the risk of a PR card application triggering loss of PR status is probably quite high for a PR way in breach lacking H&C reasons, the longer and more well-settled the PR is in Canada the lower the risk.

In contrast, again a sponsorship application does not necessarily include a Residency Determination. But we know, based on reliable reporting and actual cases, it does so and leads to inadmissibility proceedings in at least some cases. While here too it is impossible to calculate the odds, some key factors are obvious, and again the longer and more well-settled the PR is in Canada, the better their odds.

To be safe, just like when applying for a PR card, it is best to wait until being in RO compliance. For a PR who has been in Canada long enough for it to be well apparent they are settling in Canada PERMANENTLY, the odds should be fairly good. Sponsoring family is consistent with the purpose of the PR grant, to enable the person to settle in Canada permanently.

In most of the cases I have seen where a PR's sponsorship application triggered inadmissibility proceedings and the loss of their status, the PR was in breach of the RO by more than a year and they made the sponsorship application quite soon after arriving in Canada. This by no means suggests it would safe after a year. That falls into the unknown odds range.

Edit to Add: I almost forgot to note a very significant factor in regards to whether a sponsorship application triggers inadmissibility proceedings: the first stage of the process is to determine the eligibility of the PR to sponsor, and as part of the application the PR sponsor must provide a lot of historical detail, including work history, which is evaluated as part of determining the PR's eligibility to sponsor. For a PR who is in breach of the RO by a lot, this detail can make the breach and its extent more or less obvious; moreover, it is likely to illustrate the extent to which the PR is or is not settled in Canada. That is, to make a sponsorship application, the PR in breach by a lot must expose their breach.

 

[Ponga]

Not sure what "debate" there has been.

Since that was clearly in response to my post, allow me to clarify.

I have no clue what your anecdotal reports illuminate to the real people that may, someday soon, wish to sponsor their family member if they are in fact out of compliance with the R.O., since your post only adds to the curiosity of who gets a free pass.

There have been enough anecdotal reports in conjunction with actual cases reported in officially published IAD decisions to KNOW that a sponsorship application by a PR in breach of the RO sometimes triggers inadmissibility proceedings. There has also been enough anecdotal reporting to reliably conclude that being in breach of the RO when making an application to sponsor family does not always trigger inadmissibility proceedings.

 

[dpenabill]

Since that was clearly in response to my post, allow me to clarify.

I have no clue what your anecdotal reports illuminate to the real people that may, someday soon, wish to sponsor their family member if they are in fact out of compliance with the R.O., since your post only adds to the curiosity of who gets a free pass.

I have not made any anecdotal reports regarding sponsoring family members. There are many anecdotal reports by others in this forum.

There may be some debate about what the risk is that a sponsorship application will trigger inadmissibility proceedings, but make no mistake, they sometimes do.

The main thing, in regards to this aspect of the discussion, is that the caution posed by @canuck78, is well-founded. Subject to uncertainty as to what the odds are. Similar to the uncertain odds when arriving at a Port-of-Entry while in breach, or when making a PR card application while in breach.

If you really do not have a clue but are actually interested in understanding this, I will try to spell it out:

There should be NO debate that a sponsorship application can (because it sometimes does) trigger inadmissibility proceedings. Anecdotal reports illustrating examples of this by other participants in this forum are corroborated by actual cases reported in officially published IAD decisions. That is, "real people" can lose their PR status in inadmissibility proceedings triggered by a sponsorship application made when they are in breach of the RO. There is no reason to doubt that. No basis to debate this.

Unlike an application for a PR Travel Document, in contrast and for example, where a Residency Determination is a mandatory part of the process (and there is a presumption that a person outside Canada without a valid PR card does not have valid PR status), a sponsorship application does not necessarily trigger a Residency Determination. The sponsorship scenario is more like a Port-of-Entry examination in that whether there is a formal Residency Determination typically depends on the extent to which it is apparent the PR meets the definition of inadmissible for failing to comply with the RO.

There is NO debate, for example, about whether a PR in breach of the RO can be subject to inadmissibility proceedings upon arrival at a PoE. We know with certainty they can; there are scores of IAD decisions illustrating this happens, that some PRs, real people, will lose their PR status in inadmissibility proceedings triggered by a PoE examination. We also know that some PRs who are in breach of the RO are NOT subjected to inadmissibility proceedings despite being in breach of the RO when arriving at a PoE. One might think there is less certainty of the latter because this appears to rely on anecdotal reporting by forum participants and others -- there are no appeals to be reported in published decisions when a PR in breach is allowed to enter Canada and not subject to inadmissibility proceedings. However, this too is actually confirmed by actual, official cases, in that there are quite a few in which the discussion of facts refer to occasions the PR was allowed entry into Canada previous to the time resulting in a Removal Order.

In summary: the risk of a decision terminating PR status when making a sponsorship application while in RO breach is significantly less than the risk when making a PR TD application (where again there is a presumption the applicant does not have valid status); probably somewhat less than the risk when making a PR card application while in breach (since a Residency Determination is for sure part of the processing); and somewhat more than the risk when arriving at a PoE (given that in making the sponsorship application the PR is reporting personal history details that are likely to make the breach obvious). While there are known factors influencing the odds in particular circumstances, it is impossible to precisely say what the odds are.

So, while there may be some debate about what the risk is that a sponsorship application will trigger inadmissibility proceedings, again make no mistake, they sometimes do.

 

[Visitor19972]

Wow, the replies here are amazingly detailed !

Thank you all so very much for the detailed responses. I really appreciate it and I learned a lot !

Unfortunately you confirmed what I feared the most, which is that I'm unlikely to be able to make use of my current PR status once it expires.
I had heard stories of people in breach of their RO for long durations still able to enter via the land border crossing without triggering any removal order, but I believe these are either lucky one off or simply inaccurate.

For those curious to know my story....I got my PR status in Jan. 2020 and then COVID happened off-course. Meanwhile, I had applied for my newly wed wife to get a visit visa so that we're not separated for extended periods of time, and that she can at-least come and visit considering the difficulty during COVID in traveling with quarantine rules etc... that is until I apply and receive a sponsorship for her which was a very time consuming process at the time (over a year long).
Unfortunately the embassy stopped processing visit visas at the time and kept the application in limbo for 3 years by which time I had already had a son and I added him to the application only for both to eventually be rejected last year on the grounds that they are likely to enter and stay illegally, even though I had a sworn affidavit that I will ensure they don't overstay their visa. So long story short.....It was a choice between possibly ruining my marriage and missing on the first years of my newborn child or meet my residency obligation.....I chose my family (which I know a lot of people would think is stupid)!.

 

[armoured]

Unfortunately you confirmed what I feared the most, which is that I'm unlikely to be able to make use of my current PR status once it expires.
I had heard stories of people in breach of their RO for long durations still able to enter via the land border crossing without triggering any removal order, but I believe these are either lucky one off or simply inaccurate.

I would say that these are not one-offs nor inaccurate - there are plenty of cases. As noted, if you get to the land border, you WILL be admitted, and if reported, have a chance of appeal. It is clear that the chances of being waved through are FAR higher than for PRTD apps from abroad, and some of those who appeal do win. On a simple basis, it's clear that CBSA sometimes chooses - for whatever reason(s), which might include them having other priorities (i.e. too busy) - just to wave some through even where the non-compliance with RO is obvious and the 'reasons' not the strongest. (Some will say they're just lazy)

That said, getting admitted on its own doesn't resolve all issues, notably family sponsorship is not without risk - as described above.

It was a choice between possibly ruining my marriage and missing on the first years of my newborn child or meet my residency obligation.....I chose my family (which I know a lot of people would think is stupid)!.

Not at all; it is, was, and will be your choice how to proceed. Unlike some others, you recognize that was a choice you made.

Unfortunately some earlier choices foreclose other choices or make them more costly/difficult later. We could explain, for example, that as a PR you could have returned to Canada even during covid, or tried to earlier (after covid but before PR card expired) and the PR option would have remained and/or been less costly - but not much point to that now.

One small note: unlike some others here, I don't think it's true that 'covid is not a reason' (anymore or whatever). It remains one reason, and one that you can/should cite if you try to proceed. The distinction is that it is probably (almost certainly) not a sufficient reason anymore (that is, on its own).

You do, of course, have the right to apply for a PRTD and make the best case you can for H&C reasons (or to try your luck at border and make this case there and/or on appeal, should it come up). I can have my own opinion on the likelihood of approval, as can every man jack here (some clearly stating not their estimate of likelihood of approval but their own opinion on the worthiness of your case), but only IRCC actually decides.

 

[canuck78]

Wow, the replies here are amazingly detailed !

Thank you all so very much for the detailed responses. I really appreciate it and I learned a lot !

Unfortunately you confirmed what I feared the most, which is that I'm unlikely to be able to make use of my current PR status once it expires.
I had heard stories of people in breach of their RO for long durations still able to enter via the land border crossing without triggering any removal order, but I believe these are either lucky one off or simply inaccurate.

For those curious to know my story....I got my PR status in Jan. 2020 and then COVID happened off-course. Meanwhile, I had applied for my newly wed wife to get a visit visa so that we're not separated for extended periods of time, and that she can at-least come and visit considering the difficulty during COVID in traveling with quarantine rules etc... that is until I apply and receive a sponsorship for her which was a very time consuming process at the time (over a year long).
Unfortunately the embassy stopped processing visit visas at the time and kept the application in limbo for 3 years by which time I had already had a son and I added him to the application only for both to eventually be rejected last year on the grounds that they are likely to enter and stay illegally, even though I had a sworn affidavit that I will ensure they don't overstay their visa. So long story short.....It was a choice between possibly ruining my marriage and missing on the first years of my newborn child or meet my residency obligation.....I chose my family (which I know a lot of people would think is stupid)!.

Your decision to make but the likelihood of at around a 1 year separation from your family is very high and that would mean you risked applying for sponsorship when not even close to meeting RO. They can certainly attempt to visit Canada again but there are no guarantees of approval so you should be prepared either way. Your current employment and whether it actually makes sense to move also needs to be considered.

 

[deadinside]

My two cents- move to canada only if you have loads of cash OR a job offer in hand