PR travel question

[jmomcc]

I landed Dec 22 and haven't received my PR card.

We booked a trip to europe and are leaving saturday. I confirmed before that I could do this by looking at the website. It said (as I remember it) that those from visa exempt countries could travel without a PR card until March of this year.

I looked again online today and the page has changed. It implies that you do need the PR card. What should I do here? Its 105 day wait right now and I really don't want to have to go to ireland until my card comes.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=064&t=10

 

[Ponga]

Permanent residents (PR) of Canada must carry and present their valid PR card or permanent resident travel document (PRTD) when boarding a flight to Canada, or travelling to Canada on any other commercial carrier. If you do not carry your PR card or PRTD, you may not be able to board your flight, train, bus or boat to Canada.


I think the key word there is may. Perhaps those travelling on the strength of their visa-exempt passport will still be allowed to board.

 

[jmomcc]

Am I crazy or did it use to say you could travel if you were visa exempt? I'm certain I saw that on the website but I may have made a mistake.

Does anyone have experience doing this without a PR card and from a visa exempt country? Is it hard to get the travel document from a foreign embassy if I needed to do so?

If it is impossible, I could go to Ireland and apply for travel document/wait for PR card.

 

[bukeluke]

Am I crazy or did it use to say you could travel if you were visa exempt? I'm certain I saw that on the website but I may have made a mistake.

Does anyone have experience doing this without a PR card and from a visa exempt country? Is it hard to get the travel document from a foreign embassy if I needed to do so?

If it is impossible, I could go to Ireland and apply for travel document/wait for PR card.

Please note after March 15, you have to have eTA. Also, if you want to apply travel document, it takes 2 months to have it.

 

[jmomcc]

Please note after March 15, you have to have eTA. Also, if you want to apply travel document, it takes 2 months to have it.

2 months! I thought the idea of the travel document was for emergencies whilst waiting for a PR card.

March 15 might have been what I saw originally on the site. I could have swore however, that it said visa exempt could travel without a PR card.

 

[Ponga]

Here's a link to an older version of that page ( snapshot taken Nov 16, 2015, but the page was last updated on Aug 24, 2015):
http://web.archive.org/web/20151116205036/http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=064&t=10

Starting March 15, 2016, if you are a permanent resident of Canada and a citizen of a visa-exempt country, you will need to travel with your Canadian permanent resident (PR) card or permanent resident travel document when flying to Canada.


Since they've removed the part about citizens of a visa-exempt country...who knows what happens now.


There was one member here who travelled to the UK (Ireland?) before receiving his PR card (jamesdavid3).
Maybe try sending him a PM.

Good luck!

 

[Rob_TO]

Am I crazy or did it use to say you could travel if you were visa exempt? I'm certain I saw that on the website but I may have made a mistake.

Does anyone have experience doing this without a PR card and from a visa exempt country? Is it hard to get the travel document from a foreign embassy if I needed to do so?

If it is impossible, I could go to Ireland and apply for travel document/wait for PR card.

No, the CIC site never said a PR can travel on strength of visa-exempt passport alone. Technically the right way is always to have a PR Travel Doc, even before eTA program was introduced.

Of course countless people do travel just on their passport when they don't have PR card on them. This should still be possible up until the eTA becomes mandatory on March 15.

When checking in to your return flight back to Canada, you will need to pretend you are a tourist only traveling on your visa-exempt passport, and NOT a PR of Canada. If you tell the airline you're a PR, they will demand to see a valid PR card or PR TD to allow boarding.
If you tell them you're a visitor only, they may or may not ask for proof of a return or onward ticket. Worst case scenario, if they demand a return ticket you can try to buy a fully refundable one on the spot then cancel it later.

If you decide to get a PR TD to be 100% safe, some visa offices can issue them in a week or 2. You should arrange this with the local visa office for Ireland (I think a PR TD would be processed in London but not sure).

Or another option is to wait in Ireland until your PR card arrives in Canada, and whoever receives it can courier it to you. Of course exact timing for this is not guaranteed.

 

[jmomcc]

No, the CIC site never said a PR can travel on strength of visa-exempt passport alone. Technically the right way is always to have a PR Travel Doc, even before eTA program was introduced.

Of course countless people do travel just on their passport when they don't have PR card on them. This should still be possible up until the eTA becomes mandatory on March 15.

When checking in to your return flight back to Canada, you will need to pretend you are a tourist only traveling on your visa-exempt passport, and NOT a PR of Canada. If you tell the airline you're a PR, they will demand to see a valid PR card or PR TD to allow boarding.
If you tell them you're a visitor only, they may or may not ask for proof of a return or onward ticket. Worst case scenario, if they demand a return ticket you can try to buy a fully refundable one on the spot then cancel it later.

If you decide to get a PR TD to be 100% safe, some visa offices can issue them in a week or 2. You should arrange this with the local visa office for Ireland (I think a PR TD would be processed in London but not sure).

Or another option is to wait in Ireland until your PR card arrives in Canada, and whoever receives it can courier it to you. Of course exact timing for this is not guaranteed.

I'm really pissed off. When we were booking the flights, I wondered if I could travel without the card. I googled and the CIC site was the first result.

I read as Ponga linked above:

Canada’s entry requirements are changing
Starting March 15, 2016, if you are a permanent resident of Canada and a citizen of a visa-exempt country, you will need to travel with your Canadian permanent resident (PR) card or permanent resident travel document when flying to Canada. Otherwise, you may not be able to board your flight to Canada. Permanent residents who are citizens of visa-required countries will continue to need to show their PR card when boarding a flight to Canada.
If you are in Canada and do not currently have a permanent resident card, find out how to apply for a permanent resident card.
If you are outside Canada and do not have a PR card or your card is expired, find out how to apply for a permanent resident travel document.


If I tell someone, they can't do something after 3 pm, it means they can do it before. There is no mention of the ETA on that page. I wasn't looking for information about an ETA. There is no mention on that page, that everyone needs a PR card before march 15th.

Now their crappy misleading writing will cost me money and/or peace of mind.

Maybe I should have researched further ... but why would their site not be the definitive answer.

 

[Ponga]

If you're returning to Canada before March 15th, just follow Rob_TO's advice...let the airline think you're visiting Canada.

Yes, having a refundable ticket is going to be a pain, but...

 

[jmomcc]

If you're returning to Canada before March 15th, just follow Rob_TO's advice...let the airline think you're visiting Canada.

Yes, having a refundable ticket is going to be a pain, but...

Is there anyway I could get in trouble in Canada itself or am I home free once on the plane? I actually have a ticket out of canada already as I have a return to Korea from Canada in case I need to go sort out money stuff. That wouldn't be a trouble.

edit: its just a peace of mind thing for me. I don't skirt laws and I don't take chances and now I'm in a position where I kind of have to down to my bad research (possibly) and some horrendously bad writing on the immigration website (mainly in my opinion). This will sit in the back of mind for the entire trip.

edit 2: is it possible to get the travel doc without physically going to the embassy to ask for it? I would be happy to get it lined up for dublin and then see the fam while i wait.

 

[Rob_TO]

I'm really pissed off. When we were booking the flights, I wondered if I could travel without the card. I googled and the CIC site was the first result.

As I said, the CIC site has never said either now or in the past, that a PR could travel on a visa-exempt passport alone.

Several years ago right after my wife got PR and we needed to travel before her PR card arrived in the mail, i was in the same situation. I called CIC 2 different times and asked, and both times the CIC rep insisted we needed a PR TD. Of course in the end we never bothered and just flew back under my wife's visa-exempt passport, and were fine.

Is there anyway I could get in trouble in Canada itself or am I home free once on the plane? I actually have a ticket out of canada already as I have a return to Korea from Canada in case I need to go sort out money stuff. That wouldn't be a trouble.

The only challenge is with the airline to get on the plane. Once you are back in Canada, CBSA can easily determine your PR status with only your passport and COPR landing document. CBSA does not require a PR TD.

If you fly as a visitor only to the airline, and show proof of an onward trip out of Canada within 6 months, you should be fine.

edit 2: is it possible to get the travel doc without physically going to the embassy to ask for it? I would be happy to get it lined up for dublin and then see the fam while i wait.

I believe that yes, CIC can mail your PR TD to you so you don't have to physically go to the visa office to pick it up. Though I'm not certain of the rules around TDs so hopefully someone else can confirm.
You can research a bit here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/travel-document/

 

[jmomcc]

As I said, the CIC site has never said either now or in the past, that a PR could travel on a visa-exempt passport alone.

The only challenge is with the airline to get on the plane. Once you are back in Canada, CBSA can easily determine your PR status with only your passport and COPR landing document. CBSA does not require a PR TD.

If you fly as a visitor only to the airline, and show proof of an onward trip out of Canada within 6 months, you should be fine.

Thanks for the info. I guess I will pretend to be a tourist.

BTW - Starting March 15, 2016, if you are a permanent resident of Canada and a citizen of a visa-exempt country, you will need to travel with your Canadian permanent resident (PR) card or permanent resident travel document when flying to Canada

means in my eyes - that you could do so before March 15.

I am a Technical Writer and if I wrote that:

You can't place your hand in the machine after the light turns red, then it means you can do before hand. Otherwise I'd just say that you can't do so at all - ever.

 

[jmomcc]

Several years ago right after my wife got PR and we needed to travel before her PR card arrived in the mail, i was in the same situation. I called CIC 2 different times and asked, and both times the CIC rep insisted we needed a PR TD. Of course in the end we never bothered and just flew back under my wife's visa-exempt passport, and were fine.

That is reassuring. Do you remember what they said to her at the border?

 

[Aquakitty]

This whole thing is ridiculous. Why can't a PR get an ETA? Stupid. Has anyone tried to get an ETA with PR? Curious what happens. CIC is so convoluted they might not notice. In our situation, it took 4 bloody months for my spouse to get his card.

The lesson is, if you plan to fly soon after landing as PR, get your ETA before you land!

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks for the info. I guess I will pretend to be a tourist.

BTW - Starting March 15, 2016, if you are a permanent resident of Canada and a citizen of a visa-exempt country, you will need to travel with your Canadian permanent resident (PR) card or permanent resident travel document when flying to Canada

means in my eyes - that you could do so before March 15.

I am a Technical Writer and if I wrote that:

You can't place your hand in the machine after the light turns red, then it means you can do before hand. Otherwise I'd just say that you can't do so at all - ever.

Main change is it used to be "may" be able to travel, and now it is "will" be required to travel.

Anyways, this would hardly be the first time CIC has put confusing or vague wording on their website around one of their policies. You can find hundreds of similar instances all over their website and guides.

That is reassuring. Do you remember what they said to her at the border?

Back then, they didn't say anything. This was coming back from a trip to Mexico. We just stated she's flying on her visa-exempt passport, and that was it. Although we did the same trip recently, and they seemed much more strict this time. Had a supervisor check her visa and PR card for several minutes. Said it was standard for anyone not flying on a Canadian passport.

Of course every airline is different in terms of exactly how they check in travelers. In your case, if you actually were not a PR then it would be no problem. So as long as you don't mind hiding your PR status from the airline you will be fine.