PR renewal with 730 days

[drkv78]

Hi all,

My wife did PR landing on 22ndMar.2016 and left to home country next day itself for IVF treatment purpose and later after delivery of baby, she was waiting for PR clearance for the baby. Finally, she was here in Canada on 24th Apr. 2019 and just finishing 2-years/ 760 days on 24th April end. Also, the PR card shows the date of expiry as 03rd May.2021. is there any problem to get PR renewal or should we have to write 1095 explanation (from landing if they calculate, then she will be missing more than 1095 days). Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.

 

[canuck78]

Hi all,

My wife did PR landing on 22ndMar.2016 and left to home country next day itself for IVF treatment purpose and later after delivery of baby, she was waiting for PR clearance for the baby. Finally, she was here in Canada on 24th Apr. 2019 and just finishing 2-years/ 760 days on 24th April end. Also, the PR card shows the date of expiry as 03rd May.2021. is there any problem to get PR renewal or should we have to write 1095 explanation (from landing if they calculate, then she will be missing more than 1095 days). Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.

Would suggest giving yourself at least 1 more month of buffer time before submitting her PR card renewal. There is no problem living in Canada without a valid PR card.

 

[IndianBos]

Hi all,

My wife did PR landing on 22ndMar.2016 and left to home country next day itself for IVF treatment purpose and later after delivery of baby, she was waiting for PR clearance for the baby. Finally, she was here in Canada on 24th Apr. 2019 and just finishing 2-years/ 760 days on 24th April end. Also, the PR card shows the date of expiry as 03rd May.2021. is there any problem to get PR renewal or should we have to write 1095 explanation (from landing if they calculate, then she will be missing more than 1095 days). Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.

You have to calculate from the date of landing and be in Canada for 730+ days in the last 5 years. It means you cannot be outside for more than 1095 days. I would suggest to add a buffer of 30 days when you apply.

It was a similar case for me, my card expired at end of October last year but I applied with 750 days, card was renewed without any issues.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi all,

My wife did PR landing on 22ndMar.2016 and left to home country next day itself for IVF treatment purpose and later after delivery of baby, she was waiting for PR clearance for the baby. Finally, she was here in Canada on 24th Apr. 2019 and just finishing 2-years/ 760 days on 24th April end. Also, the PR card shows the date of expiry as 03rd May.2021. is there any problem to get PR renewal or should we have to write 1095 explanation (from landing if they calculate, then she will be missing more than 1095 days). Thanks a lot in advance for your suggestions.

Mostly but not entirely agree with others.

But it warrants emphasizing that the date of landing is NO longer relevant in calculating her compliance with the Residency Obligation, since that was more than five years ago.

Now and from now on, what counts for PR RO purposes is the number of days IN Canada versus days outside Canada during the previous five years. As of the date RO compliance is being questioned.

Where I disagree with others, just a little, is that I doubt waiting an extra 30 days makes much if any difference . . . as long as she is staying in Canada in the meantime. In fact, I doubt there will be much difference in how things go if she applied for a new PR card soon (before actually getting back into compliance with the RO). This is not like an application for citizenship where the date the application is made fixes eligibility. And my sense is that whether the application goes into non-routine processing (and thus delays) will depend on many other factors more than the precise number of days. Assuming the family is well-settled in Canada now, for example, probably increases the odds of NOT encountering non-routine processing. In contrast, for example, if spouse is working or living abroad, that could easily increase the risk of non-routine processing.

IN ANY REGARD, the likelihood of non-routine processing is largely what it is, and applying soon, or right after reaching the 730 days in Canada threshold, or waiting 30 days beyond that, will not, not so far as I can see, change that much, up or down.

And as long as it is clear she has been IN Canada since April 24, 2019, and she stays in Canada in the meantime, there is near zero chance that applying sooner, now, will in any way risk the PR card application triggering a formal hearing to determine RO compliance that results in a decision to terminate PR status . . . by the time IRCC even opens the application, she should be in compliance, so there would be no legal basis to find her inadmissible for breaching the RO . . . even though she is in breach now and was at the time the PR card application was made. This is because her days IN Canada still continue to count AFTER the PR card application is made.

 

[drkv78]

You have to calculate from the date of landing and be in Canada for 730+ days in the last 5 years. It means you cannot be outside for more than 1095 days. I would suggest to add a buffer of 30 days when you apply.

It was a similar case for me, my card expired at end of October last year but I applied with 750 days, card was renewed without any issues.

thanks a lot for your reply.

 

[drkv78]

You have to calculate from the date of landing and be in Canada for 730+ days in the last 5 years. It means you cannot be outside for more than 1095 days. I would suggest to add a buffer of 30 days when you apply.

It was a similar case for me, my card expired at end of October last year but I applied with 750 days, card was renewed without any issues.

Hi, How many months it took for getting the renewed PR card?

 

[drkv78]

Mostly but not entirely agree with others.

But it warrants emphasizing that the date of landing is NO longer relevant in calculating her compliance with the Residency Obligation, since that was more than five years ago.

Now and from now on, what counts for PR RO purposes is the number of days IN Canada versus days outside Canada during the previous five years. As of the date RO compliance is being questioned.

Where I disagree with others, just a little, is that I doubt waiting an extra 30 days makes much if any difference . . . as long as she is staying in Canada in the meantime. In fact, I doubt there will be much difference in how things go if she applied for a new PR card soon (before actually getting back into compliance with the RO). This is not like an application for citizenship where the date the application is made fixes eligibility. And my sense is that whether the application goes into non-routine processing (and thus delays) will depend on many other factors more than the precise number of days. Assuming the family is well-settled in Canada now, for example, probably increases the odds of NOT encountering non-routine processing. In contrast, for example, if spouse is working or living abroad, that could easily increase the risk of non-routine processing.

IN ANY REGARD, the likelihood of non-routine processing is largely what it is, and applying soon, or right after reaching the 730 days in Canada threshold, or waiting 30 days beyond that, will not, not so far as I can see, change that much, up or down.

And as long as it is clear she has been IN Canada since April 24, 2019, and she stays in Canada in the meantime, there is near zero chance that applying sooner, now, will in any way risk the PR card application triggering a formal hearing to determine RO compliance that results in a decision to terminate PR status . . . by the time IRCC even opens the application, she should be in compliance, so there would be no legal basis to find her inadmissible for breaching the RO . . . even though she is in breach now and was at the time the PR card application was made. This is because her days IN Canada still continue to count AFTER the PR card application is made.

Thanks for your note and valuable time. It means after 3rd May2021, she can apply for the PR card renewal, correct? That date, she will be having 739 days in-hand as a PR in CANADA. Also, last five years, she will be having 1087 days.

 

[drkv78]

You have to calculate from the date of landing and be in Canada for 730+ days in the last 5 years. It means you cannot be outside for more than 1095 days. I would suggest to add a buffer of 30 days when you apply.

It was a similar case for me, my card expired at end of October last year but I applied with 750 days, card was renewed without any issues.

Thanks for your reply. is it your PR renewal, the first time?

 

[dpenabill]

I am assuming there was no 44(1) Report issued back in April 2019 even though she was in breach of the RO even then. That is, assuming there was no RO compliance problem at the PoE when she arrived back in Canada in April 2019.

Thanks for your note and valuable time. It means after 3rd May2021, she can apply for the PR card renewal, correct? That date, she will be having 739 days in-hand as a PR in CANADA. Also, last five years, she will be having 1087 days.

Yes, it should be OK. There should be no Residency Obligation related issues if she applies after May 3, 2021, and has been IN Canada at least 730 days within the five years preceding the date the application is made.

Example: if the application is made May 3, 2021, the relevant five year period is May 3, 2016 to May 2, 2021, and if she has been IN Canada since April 24, 2019, she will have 739 days (or 740 days counting February 29, 2020) IN Canada. Good to go.

As I said in my previous post, I do not see much if any advantage gained by waiting another 30 days past that. Indeed, in this particular situation, my sense is that it would be OK to go ahead and make the application any day now. Even though she is currently (it appears) in breach of the RO.

Those observations are based on the following:

The date the PR card expires is NOT relevant. Not a factor.

Since the date of landing was more than five years ago, it too is NO LONGER relevant for purposes of calculating RO compliance.

It appears she is currently in breach of the RO, having been absent from Canada between Mar 23, 2016 and April 24, 2019 (more than 1095 days), and will continue to be in breach of the RO until she has been in Canada 730 days within the last five years. Which appears will not happen until April 24, 2021.

Ordinarily I echo the conventional wisdom that the SAFEST approach is to wait long enough to no longer be in breach of the RO when making an application for a new PR card. And indeed, if you she is not confident, then for sure, waiting is prudent, the wise thing to do. The safest approach would be to wait until after April 24 to make the PR card application.

And waiting makes completing the application more straight-forward, since after April 24th her total days outside Canada, within the last five years, should be less than 1095.

But in this specific situation, as I said before, as long as she is staying in Canada for now, waiting that long probably will not make much difference. If she applies tomorrow, a month from now, or two months from now, probably will not change how things will go.

This is not to promise it will go smoothly. This is not to say the application will not involve non-routine processing.

But it is to say that factors other than the timing of the application will influence whether there is non-routine processing.

 

[IndianBos]

Hi, How many months it took for getting the renewed PR card?

Regular processing time was 3 months at that time, it took around 3 months.

 

[IndianBos]

Thanks for your reply. is it your PR renewal, the first time?

It was renewal

 

[SecularFirst]

I am assuming there was no 44(1) Report issued back in April 2019 even though she was in breach of the RO even then. That is, assuming there was no RO compliance problem at the PoE when she arrived back in Canada in April 2019.



Yes, it should be OK. There should be no Residency Obligation related issues if she applies after May 3, 2021, and has been IN Canada at least 730 days within the five years preceding the date the application is made.

Example: if the application is made May 3, 2021, the relevant five year period is May 3, 2016 to May 2, 2021, and if she has been IN Canada since April 24, 2019, she will have 739 days (or 740 days counting February 29, 2020) IN Canada. Good to go.

As I said in my previous post, I do not see much if any advantage gained by waiting another 30 days past that. Indeed, in this particular situation, my sense is that it would be OK to go ahead and make the application any day now. Even though she is currently (it appears) in breach of the RO.

Those observations are based on the following:

The date the PR card expires is NOT relevant. Not a factor.

Since the date of landing was more than five years ago, it too is NO LONGER relevant for purposes of calculating RO compliance.

It appears she is currently in breach of the RO, having been absent from Canada between Mar 23, 2016 and April 24, 2019 (more than 1095 days), and will continue to be in breach of the RO until she has been in Canada 730 days within the last five years. Which appears will not happen until April 24, 2021.

Ordinarily I echo the conventional wisdom that the SAFEST approach is to wait long enough to no longer be in breach of the RO when making an application for a new PR card. And indeed, if you she is not confident, then for sure, waiting is prudent, the wise thing to do. The safest approach would be to wait until after April 24 to make the PR card application.

And waiting makes completing the application more straight-forward, since after April 24th her total days outside Canada, within the last five years, should be less than 1095.

But in this specific situation, as I said before, as long as she is staying in Canada for now, waiting that long probably will not make much difference. If she applies tomorrow, a month from now, or two months from now, probably will not change how things will go.

This is not to promise it will go smoothly. This is not to say the application will not involve non-routine processing.

But it is to say that factors other than the timing of the application will influence whether there is non-routine processing.

How can you tell if 44(1) report was issued to you at POE. I entered the country last spring after being out of Canada for about 1140 days since landing as PR, I was sent to secondary but the officer asked me reason for coming back, stamped my passport with entry stamp and let me in. I was not given any other paper, nor was told to do anything else except to quarantine at home for 14 days. I am living and working in Canada ever since. My PR card will expire in December 2021 but I dont intend to renew it untill 6 months after the expiry so that I am fully in compliance with RO. I dont intend to travel out of the country for 2-3 more years.
how to be sure no 44(1) was issued? Is there a way to check somewhere?

 

[dpenabill]

How can you tell if 44(1) report was issued to you at POE. I entered the country last spring after being out of Canada for about 1140 days since landing as PR, I was sent to secondary but the officer asked me reason for coming back, stamped my passport with entry stamp and let me in. I was not given any other paper, nor was told to do anything else except to quarantine at home for 14 days. I am living and working in Canada ever since. My PR card will expire in December 2021 but I dont intend to renew it untill 6 months after the expiry so that I am fully in compliance with RO. I dont intend to travel out of the country for 2-3 more years.
how to be sure no 44(1) was issued? Is there a way to check somewhere?

If I knew even a little more background, it would probably be easy to say that indications are you are OK.

By almost all accounts, with rare exception, PRs issued 44(1) Reports upon arrival at a PoE KNOW if they are being issued a 44(1) Report. The procedure is made clear enough. Moreover, the most important part of the process, for those "reported," is being issued a Departure Order. If you were not issued paperwork of this sort, odds are very good all is well.

There are exceptions, of course, and caveats. And I am typically far more cautious, perhaps a bit skeptical, when the query comes from someone hiding their other posts.

In general, overall, much of the anecdotal reporting has long suggested that PRs who come to Canada to settle a "little late," during their first five years, are often waived through, much as you describe happened for you.

Many here, including me, are reluctant to emphasize this much, because once the PR has been outside Canada long enough to be in breach there is a real risk of being examined and determined to be in breach, that is, determined to be inadmissible, resulting in a decision to terminate PR status. It is always, always, much safer to get to Canada to stay before passing that in-breach threshold.

But historically it is actually fairly unusual to see PRs "reported" if they are just a few months let alone just a few weeks late . . . during their first five years. And, moreover, it is unusual to come across such cases in the IAD decisions, suggesting there are not many such cases, suggesting that the general approach is indeed even more lenient, more liberal, than the already rather lenient Residency Obligation itself.

But there are some cases in which the PR was just a few weeks or so short. And there is no doubt, the PR who is short is in breach and subject to the termination of PR. So arriving late is gambling. I, for one, tend to avoid giving gambling advice even more than legal advice.

Overall: what you describe is consistent with a lot of anecdotal reporting. And even though there is no formal policy or practice indicated, my sense is that during this Covid-19 pandemic many "new" (less than five years since landing) PRs have even better odds of experiencing a lenient waive-through at the PoE.