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PR obligation and any issues during re-entry.

RISHIFERRARI20

Star Member
Sep 27, 2018
159
17
I became a permanent resident in November 2019, travelled to Vancouver and stayed for 2-3 months before returning to India to spend some time with family. My intention was to return that summer and stay permanently. But then Covid happened and with lockdowns and travel disruptions I postponed my plans and just moved to a different place within India and re-started my life, although on a temporary basis knowing I will go back to Canada at some point. My PR card expires in December 2024 and I am aware of the required residency obligations for renewal. My problem is that I need to be here in India for another 6 months approximately to wrap up things before I can shift. I will have almost exactly two years (having stayed in Canada for 2-3 months already) left when I go back. My questions are:

1. Can I anticipate any trouble with immigration while travelling? Will I have to bring any extra documents etc. to explain my absence? Can they question me for not being present in the country for so long after becoming a resident?
2. Is it mandatory to renew the PR card before it expires? Because if I run short of time I am thinking of just staying on in Canada for the required time to make up two years on the other side of the expiry date before applying for renewal. Is that okay? If okay then will they count back 730 days from the date of expiry or date of application for renewal? Is this a good strategy to make up for lost time?
3. Is it possible or has anyone tried to plead for grace time on the grounds of being stuck due to covid and its attendant travel restrictions? Can I hope to gain a few extra months on this plea (only in worst case scenario)?
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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I became a permanent resident in November 2019, travelled to Vancouver and stayed for 2-3 months before returning to India to spend some time with family. My intention was to return that summer and stay permanently. But then Covid happened and with lockdowns and travel disruptions I postponed my plans and just moved to a different place within India and re-started my life, although on a temporary basis knowing I will go back to Canada at some point. My PR card expires in December 2024 and I am aware of the required residency obligations for renewal. My problem is that I need to be here in India for another 6 months approximately to wrap up things before I can shift. I will have almost exactly two years (having stayed in Canada for 2-3 months already) left when I go back. My questions are:

1. Can I anticipate any trouble with immigration while travelling? Will I have to bring any extra documents etc. to explain my absence? Can they question me for not being present in the country for so long after becoming a resident?
2. Is it mandatory to renew the PR card before it expires? Because if I run short of time I am thinking of just staying on in Canada for the required time to make up two years on the other side of the expiry date before applying for renewal. Is that okay? If okay then will they count back 730 days from the date of expiry or date of application for renewal? Is this a good strategy to make up for lost time?
3. Is it possible or has anyone tried to plead for grace time on the grounds of being stuck due to covid and its attendant travel restrictions? Can I hope to gain a few extra months on this plea (only in worst case scenario)?
1. It's impossible to predict. The sooner you return the less likely you are to have issues. If you return as planned then you shouldn't have issues.
2. No it's not mandatory. You should wait to meet the residency obligation before you apply. They count back five years from the date of the application.
3. No grace periods are being granted.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
18,153
9,475
1. Can I anticipate any trouble with immigration while travelling? Will I have to bring any extra documents etc. to explain my absence? Can they question me for not being present in the country for so long after becoming a resident?
I don't fully understand your math but it's fairly simple and it sounds like you plan to return before being out of compliance: if you have been out of Canada less than 1095 days* between the date of landing and the five year anniversary of that date, you are in compliance. They may ask you questions but if you are in compliance, don't worry about it.

[* This is just a restatement of the 'need 730 days in first five years' requirement to make it easier to calculate, ie. you don't need to calculate how many days remaining, only days out of Canada.]

3. Is it possible or has anyone tried to plead for grace time on the grounds of being stuck due to covid and its attendant travel restrictions? Can I hope to gain a few extra months on this plea (only in worst case scenario)?
There is no 'grace time' or anything like it. They can (and seem to) exercise lenience for those with real humanitarian and compassionate reasons - and covid is a reason. This does not mean anyone can say you will be treated leniently, just that they must take these things into consideration.

One comment: your plan - assuming you return before you have been out of Canada more than 1095 days - is reasonably solid, but try to return earlier to have even more buffer. The common problem that arises here is someone is close to the number and then ... something comes up or their job requires travel or family problems or [life happens.] While being a bit out of compliance may often be ignored, it does create more stress and potential hassles down the road, and then many of these cases turn out to be very much out of compliance and more serious complications arise.

Your current "I need six months more to wrap things up" is an example of just that - lots of cases of 'just a few months more' turned into much longer periods and then it gets unpleasant.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
57,449
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Are you aware that the 5 years is from your landing date. The expiry date on your PR card is not related to your RO. If you landed in 2019 and spent 2-3 months in Canada your math seems off if you’re saying you will still be compliant with your RO in 6 months. When did you land as a PR? The big issue with your reasons for not relocating to Canada because of Covid is that you relocated within India. Most using Covid as a reason for not traveling earlier were essentially living in their original home so they could limit interactions, not travel, do shopping/care for elderly so they didn’t have to leave the home, etc. while you relocated within India. If you were able to restart your life in a different area of India why couldn’t you have relocated to Canada? Given that travel has returned to normal for quite some time it will be very hard to justify not meeting your RO if the delay in your return is due to Covid. In 6 months from now it will be even harder to justify. . This may have been true initially especially pre-vaccination but Covid has become much harder to use as a reason for not being able to travel to Canada. You should return to Canada as soon as possible
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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Most using Covid as a reason for not traveling earlier were essentially living in their original home so they could limit interactions, not travel, do shopping/care for elderly so they didn’t have to leave the home, etc. while you relocated within India. If you were able to restart your life in a different area of India why couldn’t you have relocated to Canada?
Do you have a report of a single, any, just one actual PR who has had these counter-arguments posed to them, or been informed of such reasoning by a CBSA, IRCC or IAD official in an examination upon arrival?

I don't recall a single report going even remotely so far in doubting reasoning of what individuals do in the pandemic, and personally have strong doubts any such arguments would stand up to scrutiny (because easily rebutted by "I did what seemed reasonable to me in a very uncertain environment with conflicting advice from different governments").

Given that travel has returned to normal for quite some time it will be very hard to justify not meeting your RO if the delay in your return is due to Covid. In 6 months from now it will be even harder to justify. . This may have been true initially especially pre-vaccination but Covid has become much harder to use as a reason for not being able to travel to Canada. You should return to Canada as soon as possible
While I agree with the conclusion and recommendation - better to return to Canada as soon as possible - I contend you have NO factual reported basis to conclude that it will be "very hard" to justify in any context that matters. Nor do I see any evidence that 'covid has become much harder to use as a reason' (although it certainly will, the 'much harder' is entirely editorial on your part, it seems).

It's fine to make strong recommendations. Reasonable ones. But you seem to go far beyond in intuiting or stating what IRCC, CBSA, IAD or others will do. These comments are actually just your speculation, and they're starting to resemble most of all what (I presume) you would like to happen or how you would prefer these cases be disposed (more strictly, I guess).

Fine for you to have opinions, but you're going far beyond in stating in terms that say these things will happen.

Still again: I agree with the overall advice. It will get harder to use covid as a reason over time. PRs should return sooner. That's the only responsible conclusion/advice.

But no need to exaggerate.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
57,449
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Do you have a report of a single, any, just one actual PR who has had these counter-arguments posed to them, or been informed of such reasoning by a CBSA, IRCC or IAD official in an examination upon arrival?

I don't recall a single report going even remotely so far in doubting reasoning of what individuals do in the pandemic, and personally have strong doubts any such arguments would stand up to scrutiny (because easily rebutted by "I did what seemed reasonable to me in a very uncertain environment with conflicting advice from different governments").



While I agree with the conclusion and recommendation - better to return to Canada as soon as possible - I contend you have NO factual reported basis to conclude that it will be "very hard" to justify in any context that matters. Nor do I see any evidence that 'covid has become much harder to use as a reason' (although it certainly will, the 'much harder' is entirely editorial on your part, it seems).

It's fine to make strong recommendations. Reasonable ones. But you seem to go far beyond in intuiting or stating what IRCC, CBSA, IAD or others will do. These comments are actually just your speculation, and they're starting to resemble most of all what (I presume) you would like to happen or how you would prefer these cases be disposed (more strictly, I guess).

Fine for you to have opinions, but you're going far beyond in stating in terms that say these things will happen.

Still again: I agree with the overall advice. It will get harder to use covid as a reason over time. PRs should return sooner. That's the only responsible conclusion/advice.

But no need to exaggerate.
OP relocated within India, started a new job, etc. during the pandemic. How is that different than relocating to Canada? People using Covid as a reason for not being able to come to Canada usually showEd that they remained in the same place, continued with their same housing, same job, stayed with their family. If the reason for not coming to Canada was due to the pandemic most were able to show that they were taking steps to quarantine/isolate and limit travel. It is also now the end of 2022 when international travel has been running at maximum capacity, at least as much as the airlines can manage, for many months so it is pretty hard to keep justifying that the pandemic has prevented you from relocating. The only reason that OP is not coming to Canada earlier is because it sounds like they need to give 6 months notice for work. Since this spring travel has become much easier. If arriving in Winter/spring 2023 not sure how the Pandemic will still be an acceptable reasons for not meeting your RO. There were plenty of people who delayed travel but arrived starting last spring and into the summer.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,485
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I became a permanent resident in November 2019, travelled to Vancouver and stayed for 2-3 months . . .
Observations by @scylla and @armoured should adequately answer your questions. I am commenting mostly to emphasize and clarify a couple things.

There are two very distinct aspects of your situation. One is returning to Canada, and whether or not you might have a 44(1) Report prepared against you upon your arrival. The other is about applying for a new PR card.

The latter is simple: do NOT apply for a PR card UNLESS and NOT UNTIL you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. It is OK to let the PR card expire as long as you are IN Canada.

What MIGHT happen when you arrive in Canada after being absent for three years or more is a little more complicated, but here too as both @scylla and @armoured have noted, the sooner you arrive in Canada the better the odds there will be NO problem when you arrive, the better the odds you will be waived through the Port-of-Entry without being subject to 44(1) Report processing.

I hesitate to reassure you that even if you are a little or a couple months late, the odds are good there will be no problem. There is always a risk for a PR in breach of the RO. So no PR should take for granted the fact of good odds will mean they too get a pass, even if many others do not encounter a problem.

@armoured noted the easy way to calculate when you are in breach of the RO. If at anytime during the first five years after landing you have been outside Canada more than 1095 days, you are in RO breach, in RO breach as of the day you exceeded 1095 days abroad (since that means you cannot possibly meet the 730 days in first five year RO).

As noted, if you get here when you are only a little in breach of the RO, the odds are fair to good you will be waived through without being questioned much about RO compliance. But you might be.

SO, YES, you will want to be prepared to explain your absence. Be honest. Just tell your story. Contrary to some forum participants, even factors related to staying working abroad are more likely to help if that is part of the real story, your real story, and it is just what you needed to do in order to prepare to make the permanent move here. To the extent Covid was a factor, you can and should briefly state how that influenced the delay in YOUR making final arrangement to make the move here; not in the kind of detail @canuck78 discusses (see comments by @armoured and mine below), but in general terms. Since you were in Canada for a period of time, you will want to be prepared to give details about that time in Canada and especially about the date of exit, perhaps even have some evidentiary documents showing that departure from Canada date.

Worst case scenario is, yes, a 44(1) Report and Departure Order. You would still be allowed to proceed into Canada. You will still have PR status. And if you want to try to stay, you can by making an appeal. Pending an appeal you can live and work like any other PR.

But you seem to go far beyond in intuiting or stating what IRCC, CBSA, IAD or others will do. These comments are actually just your speculation, and they're starting to resemble most of all what (I presume) you would like to happen or how you would prefer these cases be disposed (more strictly, I guess).
OP relocated within India, started a new job, etc. during the pandemic. How is that different than relocating to Canada? People using Covid as a reason for not being able to come to Canada usually showEd that they remained in the same place, continued with their same housing, same job, stayed with their family. If the reason for not coming to Canada was due to the pandemic most were able to show that they were taking steps to quarantine/isolate and limit travel. It is also now the end of 2022 when international travel has been running at maximum capacity, at least as much as the airlines can manage, for many months so it is pretty hard to keep justifying that the pandemic has prevented you from relocating. The only reason that OP is not coming to Canada earlier is because it sounds like they need to give 6 months notice for work. Since this spring travel has become much easier. If arriving in Winter/spring 2023 not sure how the Pandemic will still be an acceptable reasons for not meeting your RO. There were plenty of people who delayed travel but arrived starting last spring and into the summer.
Your comments have little if anything to with anything @armoured noted. And very little relevance for the OP. And I know you know better. You know as well as anyone here that if the OP arrives in Canada while his first PR card is still valid, the main factor which will influence whether the OP is waived through or is subject to a 44(1) Report process is mostly numbers, how much the OP is in breach of the RO upon arrival. The sooner the OP gets here, the better the odds of no serious RO enforcement questioning, let alone being "Reported" (as typically referred to here).

But even if the OP is referred to Secondary upon arrival and asked detailed questions about RO compliance, there is no indication that the questioning will proceed in the way you outline. We have yet to see any significant reports of returning PRs, with valid PR cards but in breach of the RO, being asked detailed questions related to the particulars in how Covid delayed their return to Canada, let alone detailed questions about the extent to which they otherwise protected themselves from Covid during their absence. There has been no indication that returning PRs citing the impact of Covid among reasons for not returning here sooner have been challenged in the way you describe . . . AND YOU KNOW THAT.

There is little doubt that CBSA border officers have been exercising a significant degree of leniency in not even questioning many returning PRs about RO compliance in large part in deference to the general impact that Covid has had.

Sure, the scope of leniency related to Covid is bound to be on the decline.

But it warrants noting with emphasis that even before Covid, being "Reported" upon arrival was still unusual, the exception, for a PR whose first PR card was still valid for at least another year. Some, like me, are hesitant to state this so directly because for any PR who arrives at a PoE while in breach of the RO there is a real risk of being Reported, and that risk should not be minimized let alone dismissed. There is no doubt, a PR abroad in RO breach, or approaching being in breach, should make a concerted effort to return to Canada as soon as they can if keeping PR status is important to them.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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OP relocated within India, started a new job, etc. during the pandemic. How is that different than relocating to Canada? People using Covid as a reason for not being able to come to Canada usually showEd that they remained in the same place, continued with their same housing, same job, stayed with their family. If the reason for not coming to Canada was due to the pandemic most were able to show that they were taking steps to quarantine/isolate and limit travel. It is also now the end of 2022 when international travel has been running at maximum capacity, at least as much as the airlines can manage, for many months so it is pretty hard to keep justifying that the pandemic has prevented you from relocating. The only reason that OP is not coming to Canada earlier is because it sounds like they need to give 6 months notice for work. Since this spring travel has become much easier. If arriving in Winter/spring 2023 not sure how the Pandemic will still be an acceptable reasons for not meeting your RO. There were plenty of people who delayed travel but arrived starting last spring and into the summer.
So in brief: no, you do not have a single such case, no evidence whatsoever of your specific claims, and yet keep repeating it will be 'very hard' etc.

Clear, thanks.