PR expired in 2007- applying for renewal on H&C grounds

[mjuss]

Hello,

I was issued a PR card in 2007 when my family immigrated to canada, but we left soon after, without being able to fulfill the residency obligation. In 2022, I applied for a course in Ontario and I was granted a study permit ending 31 December, 2023(for a 1-year masters degree). After arriving here, I found out that my PR status was still active (the card got expired in 2017). I am now looking to renew my card on the basis of H&C grounds, since at that time I was a minor when my parents decided to leave Canada. What is the best possible way of going about this?

1. I directly apply for renewal by filling out the IM5444e form + adding a letter of explanation explaining my time spent outside Canada ( I do have a strong reason to justify H&C)
2. I hire a lawyer, so we have hearings in the court to appeal my case. ( I would go for this option only if absolutely necessary. Wouldn't spend on lawyers otherwise)
3. I do nothing for the sake of PR, apply for a pgwp after completion of my course, and apply for PR after gaining work experience.

Any help and valuable advice from people knowledgeable in this case is most welcome.

 

[Ponga]

Hello,

I was issued a PR card in 2007 when my family immigrated to canada, but we left soon after, without being able to fulfill the residency obligation. In 2022, I applied for a course in Ontario and I was granted a study permit ending 31 December, 2023(for a 1-year masters degree). After arriving here, I found out that my PR status was still active (the card got expired in 2017). I am now looking to renew my card on the basis of H&C grounds, since at that time I was a minor when my parents decided to leave Canada. What is the best possible way of going about this?

1. I directly apply for renewal by filling out the IM5444e form + adding a letter of explanation explaining my time spent outside Canada ( I do have a strong reason to justify H&C)
2. I hire a lawyer, so we have hearings in the court to appeal my case. ( I would go for this option only if absolutely necessary. Wouldn't spend on lawyers otherwise)
3. I do nothing for the sake of PR, apply for a pgwp after completion of my course, and apply for PR after gaining work experience.

Any help and valuable advice from people knowledgeable in this case is most welcome.

So if I understand correctly, even though your PR card expired more than 11 years ago, you were able to successfully return to Canada and are still in Canada, correct? If so...how long have you been here now? This would mean that you likely did not have a 44(1) issued by CBSA when you re-entered, right? This would make things a bit easier for you...perhaps. If CBSA didn't take action, that would seem to play well for you going forward.

I do find it odd that if IRCC has not revoked your PR, that you were eligible for a study permit. Hmmm.

In my opinion, if you can salvage and maintain your PR, that would be a good option. However...even if you feel that you have strong, compelling H&C grounds, are you prepared to remain in Canada for at least 730 days (or a bit more, ideally) without leaving? If not, you may be better of renouncing your PR.

Even if you say that you will remain in Canada for 2 full years, until you have a valid PR Card again, it will likely be very difficult to obtain things like provincial health care, a DL, and probably a few more important things for a person living in Canada.


After typing this reply...I wonder if your best option is to do nothing until you have accrued 730 days or more in Canada and THEN simply apply for a renewed PR Card; No H&C reasons would be needed and having satisfied the Residency Requirement before applying for the renewed card, would appear to be eligible for approval. This way, there's no chance of an H&C application being refused, but it gets back to the `living in Canada without a valid PR card' paradox.

Suggest you wait for others to chime in, but I'm happy to have been the first to reply.

Good luck!

 

[mjuss]

So if I understand correctly, even though your PR card expired more than 11 years ago, you were able to successfully return to Canada and are still in Canada, correct? If so...how long have you been here now? This would mean that you likely did not have a 44(1) issued by CBSA when you re-entered, right? This would make things a bit easier for you...perhaps. If CBSA didn't take action, that would seem to play well for you going forward.

I do find it odd that if IRCC has not revoked your PR, that you were eligible for a study permit. Hmmm.

In my opinion, if you can salvage and maintain your PR, that would be a good option. However...even if you feel that you have strong, compelling H&C grounds, are you prepared to remain in Canada for at least 730 days (or a bit more, ideally) without leaving? If not, you may be better of renouncing your PR.

Even if you say that you will remain in Canada for 2 full years, until you have a valid PR Card again, it will likely be very difficult to obtain things like provincial health care, a DL, and probably a few more important things for a person living in Canada.


After typing this reply...I wonder if your best option is to do nothing until you have accrued 730 days or more in Canada and THEN simply apply for a renewed PR Card; No H&C reasons would be needed and having satisfied the Residency Requirement before applying for the renewed card, would appear to be eligible for approval. This way, there's no chance of an H&C application being refused, but it gets back to the `living in Canada without a valid PR card' paradox.

Suggest you wait for others to chime in, but I'm happy to have been the first to reply.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for your reply!

I am not aware of the 44(1). The way I re-entered Canada was through a study permit. And yes, it is odd. My university immigration lawyer said that this was probably a clerical error on the part of the IRCC.
I am prepared to stay here for the next one year to complete 730 days. However, I am not sure if this will count towards my residency because I am way beyond its expiry date anyway.

Until I have my PR card again, I am covered under my university's health insurance and other necessary things, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Not to complicate the case, but just for some more context, my sister had applied for a study permit as well. But hers got refused, since she was an expired PR holder too. She later applied for the renewal from outside of Canada, and submitted a letter of explanation of the reason for not fulfilling RO. Her case got approved under the RC-1 visa category and she was granted a PRTD. Again, not sure if that would translate into her getting a valid PR card upon her arrival here.

But this is what got me thinking if my case could be approved as well, by applying for a renewal directly and adding a letter of explanation.

Please let me know your opinions on the same, I would be grateful.

Thank you once again.

 

[Ponga]

Thank you so much for your reply!

I am not aware of the 44(1). The way I re-entered Canada was through a study permit. And yes, it is odd. My university immigration lawyer said that this was probably a clerical error on the part of the IRCC.
I am prepared to stay here for the next one year to complete 730 days. However, I am not sure if this will count towards my residency because I am way beyond its expiry date anyway.

Until I have my PR card again, I am covered under my university's health insurance and other necessary things, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Not to complicate the case, but just for some more context, my sister had applied for a study permit as well. But hers got refused, since she was an expired PR holder too. She later applied for the renewal from outside of Canada, and submitted a letter of explanation of the reason for not fulfilling RO. Her case got approved under the RC-1 visa category and she was granted a PRTD. Again, not sure if that would translate into her getting a valid PR card upon her arrival here.

But this is what got me thinking if my case could be approved as well, by applying for a renewal directly and adding a letter of explanation.

Please let me know your opinions on the same, I would be grateful.

Thank you once again.

Well, since your sister was successful...and you would likely have the same `evidence', I can understand wanting to try. The problem is if it is denied, then is creates all sorts of difficulties for you. Might be best to at least confer with someone with legal training to get some real advice.

 

[armoured]

How old are you? When did you enter and how long have you been here so far?

If you wish to retain pr and don't mind current circumstances, your time on Canada now will count and you can just remain here and apply for a card after 730 days.

 

[mjuss]

How old are you? When did you enter and how long have you been here so far?

If you wish to retain pr and don't mind current circumstances, your time in Canada now will count and you can just remain here and apply for a card after 730 days.

Thank you for the reply!

I am 22 years old, I entered in September 2022 and I have been here for 8 months now. I am ready to complete my 730 days here, but does it really count toward my RO? Since it is beyond my card's expiry date.

If it does, I'm happy to just focus on completing my RO.

 

[mjuss]

Well, since your sister was successful...and you would likely have the same `evidence', I can understand wanting to try. The problem is if it is denied, then is creates all sorts of difficulties for you. Might be best to at least confer with someone with legal training to get some real advice.

I understand. Thank you for the advise!

 

[Ponga]

Thank you for the reply!

I am 22 years old, I entered in September 2022 and I have been here for 8 months now. I am ready to complete my 730 days here, but does it really count toward my RO? Since it is beyond my card's expiry date.

If it does, I'm happy to just focus on completing my RO.

Yes it does!

The expired card (and more importantly the expiry date itself) is meaningless. You need to be able to look back five years, at any time and be able to show at least 730 days spent in Canada. In your case, as soon as you have accrued 730 days (which would be in ~ 16 months or so) you will have those 730 days and could then safely apply for a new PR Card. If you apply any sooner than that, you should definitely apply under H & C grounds.

If you do not `need' to have a valid PR Card while you are in Canada (it's not a requirement to have), you may want to defer applying until you have met the R.O., unless you feel that the H&C route is best for you. Keep in mind that if it is denied, life for you gets more complicated in Canada.

You will also need to remain in Canada for the next ~16 months because leaving could also amplify things if you are reported by CBSA when you seek re-entry.

 

[armoured]

Thank you for the reply!

I am 22 years old, I entered in September 2022 and I have been here for 8 months now. I am ready to complete my 730 days here, but does it really count toward my RO? Since it is beyond my card's expiry date.

If it does, I'm happy to just focus on completing my RO.

Yes, this time does count unless you were reported at the border for not being in compliance with the RO - and it sure sounds like nothing of the sort happened.

Was your passport stamped or anything else provided you at the border/port of entry proving your entry?

Speculating a bit: it would be very good in your case to have supplemental proof you entered Canada at that time, and that you have remained in Canada (eg proof of being here). Just in case. Because it seems IRCC did make an error and this may result in more scrutiny of your file.

Now a separate matter: although you are here legally, you may have complications in getting access to benefits - including, for example, Canadian tuition rates, getting a health card, etc. Do you have a SIN #?

 

[mjuss]

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, this time does count unless you were reported at the border for not being in compliance with the RO - and it sure sounds like nothing of the sort happened.

Was your passport stamped or anything else provided you at the border/port of entry proving your entry?

Speculating a bit: it would be very good in your case to have supplemental proof you entered Canada at that time, and that you have remained in Canada (eg proof of being here). Just in case. Because it seems IRCC did make an error and this may result in more scrutiny of your file.

Now a separate matter: although you are here legally, you may have complications in getting access to benefits - including, for example, Canadian tuition rates, getting a health card, etc. Do you have a SIN #?

Nothing of that sort happened. My passport wasn't stamped with anything out of place and just like other international students, I was provided with a study permit at the border. If required, I do have proof of my living in Canada for the past 8 months.

I do not have the benefit of paying Canadian tuition and am paying an international student fee.
I have a health card provided by my university, which is valid for one year.
Yes, I have my SIN # and have been working part-time legally.

 

[scylla]

Thank you so much for your reply!

I am not aware of the 44(1). The way I re-entered Canada was through a study permit. And yes, it is odd. My university immigration lawyer said that this was probably a clerical error on the part of the IRCC.
I am prepared to stay here for the next one year to complete 730 days. However, I am not sure if this will count towards my residency because I am way beyond its expiry date anyway.

Until I have my PR card again, I am covered under my university's health insurance and other necessary things, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Not to complicate the case, but just for some more context, my sister had applied for a study permit as well. But hers got refused, since she was an expired PR holder too. She later applied for the renewal from outside of Canada, and submitted a letter of explanation of the reason for not fulfilling RO. Her case got approved under the RC-1 visa category and she was granted a PRTD. Again, not sure if that would translate into her getting a valid PR card upon her arrival here.

But this is what got me thinking if my case could be approved as well, by applying for a renewal directly and adding a letter of explanation.

Please let me know your opinions on the same, I would be grateful.

Thank you once again.

Is there any chance your parents applied to renew the family's PR cards or applied for a PRTD that included you?

 

[mjuss]

Is there any chance your parents applied to renew the family's PR cards or applied for a PRTD that included you?

Nope

 

[scylla]

Nope

OK - that's good news. Let us know what happens once you apply to renew. Good luck.

 

[mjuss]

Sure, will take ∼ 16 months for the good news to arrive. Stay tuned!

 

[armoured]

Nothing of that sort happened. My passport wasn't stamped with anything out of place and just like other international students, I was provided with a study permit at the border. If required, I do have proof of my living in Canada for the past 8 months.

I do not have the benefit of paying Canadian tuition and am paying an international student fee.
I have a health card provided by my university, which is valid for one year.
Yes, I have my SIN # and have been working part-time legally.

In this case it is a GOOD thing if you have had passport stamped or got the dated study permit at the border. That shows you entered on that date.

The SIN you have - was that a SIN issued to you as a student, or one from before?

I think you should not be paying international freight, and as a PR you should have a permanent SIN#.

So one step at a time. You'll want to collect your documents etc, whatever you had before, like PR card and landing papers.

Interesting situation.