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PR card transferred to local office for further investigation

mustafa8308

Newbie
Jul 24, 2017
7
0
I landed in Canada in May 2011, and moved back with my family to Dubai so I can finish up my high school. I moved back to Canada in June 2014, and in July 2016 my PR expired. I applied for a renewal in April 2017, and my application has been processed and then sent to a local IRCC office. Is there a reason for that? I didn't leave the country from June 2014- March 2017 that's 1000 days I was in the country (247 of them, my PR was already expired though).

Summary:

May 2011- June 2014. PR valid. not residing in Canada. 1130 days
June 2014- July 2016. PR valid. residing in Canada. 753 days
July 2016- March 2017. PR Not valid. residing in Canada. 247 days
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,427
1,551
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
Your PR card was not valid after July 2016, not your PR in general. Having a valid PR card in itself is irrelevant to you meeting the residency obligation. The fact you were physically inside Canada should be the main factor here.

What proof did you submit that you were resident in Canada from June 2014 to March 2017? Did you submit tax returns, passport stamps, CBSA entry/exit records, etc?
Nobody here can confirm exactly why your app went for further inspection, but it sounds like IRCC was not satisfied with the proofs you submitted so may suspect you weren't actually in Canada all that time.
 
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mustafa8308

Newbie
Jul 24, 2017
7
0
I didn't send any proof as I wasn't asked to and didn't know that I have to :( . Is there anything I can do now? I got married to a Canadian citizen 2 months ago and We want to travel to Egypt mid August to visit his family and my friends there. I have only 2-3 weeks off from uni, and a PR travel document takes 2-5 weeks to be issued from Egypt. I should write the embassy a letter if I want it faster (stating that I need to go back for my uni) and they'll decide. Any ideas or thoughts? It's quite frustrating and the local office takes 8-10 months to process
 

outflare

Star Member
Jun 20, 2017
118
11
I didn't send any proof as I wasn't asked to and didn't know that I have to :( . Is there anything I can do now? I got married to a Canadian citizen 2 months ago and We want to travel to Egypt mid August to visit his family and my friends there. I have only 2-3 weeks off from uni, and a PR travel document takes 2-5 weeks to be issued from Egypt. I should write the embassy a letter if I want it faster (stating that I need to go back for my uni) and they'll decide. Any ideas or thoughts? It's quite frustrating and the local office takes 8-10 months to process
If you have american visa , you can come thruogh US border but only in a private car .
p.s have they rewuested you to provide any further documents ?
please share your timeline
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,870
2,701
Travel for "vacation" is no longer considered for urgent processing. After skimming some of the other threads on secondary review, the process looks to take about 12-15 months total, although there is no specific time line for them to complete it. I would either reschedule my trip or plan to apply for a PRTD (fill out the forms before you leave and take it all with you when you travel) or enter through the land border if you have a US visa.
 

mustafa8308

Newbie
Jul 24, 2017
7
0
  1. We received your application for a permanent resident card on April 27, 2017.
  2. We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on June 26, 2017.
  3. We started processing your application on June 26, 2017.

and when i called they told me : July 12 file transferred to local office in Hamilton for further investigation.

I am a Pakistani passport holder. how can I apply for american visa?

applying for a PRTD feels risky, although I will have proof that I need to get back to Uni, they still can take up to 5 weeks, i can not wait more than 3..
 

outflare

Star Member
Jun 20, 2017
118
11
  1. We received your application for a permanent resident card on April 27, 2017.
  2. We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on June 26, 2017.
  3. We started processing your application on June 26, 2017.
and when i called they told me : July 12 file transferred to local office in Hamilton for further investigation.

I am a Pakistani passport holder. how can I apply for american visa?

applying for a PRTD feels risky, although I will have proof that I need to get back to Uni, they still can take up to 5 weeks, i can not wait more than 3..
if you can skip your trip , that would be the best option .
I am not sure , if USA will give you a visa with an expired pr card and case in secondary review.
 

mustafa8308

Newbie
Jul 24, 2017
7
0
cant I have a relative send my travel document application from within Egypt (before I get there) so it can be ready by time?
 

outflare

Star Member
Jun 20, 2017
118
11
cant I have a relative send my travel document application from within Egypt (before I get there) so it can be ready by time?
you cant do that as
to apply for PRTD
You must send your original, valid passport. We need this to attach your Permanent Resident Travel Document. ( AS PER CIC WEBSITE )

you wont be able to travel if you send your passport there before hand .
 

MUSTAFACAN

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2011
301
27
  1. We received your application for a permanent resident card on April 27, 2017.
  2. We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on June 26, 2017.
  3. We started processing your application on June 26, 2017.
and when i called they told me : July 12 file transferred to local office in Hamilton for further investigation.

I am a Pakistani passport holder. how can I apply for american visa?

applying for a PRTD feels risky, although I will have proof that I need to get back to Uni, they still can take up to 5 weeks, i can not wait more than 3..
My application Received on April 03
Processing started June 09

Documents requested from Hamilton office on June 29

Comparing ur n my timeline I think you can expect email from.Hamiton office in a week time.
 

outflare

Star Member
Jun 20, 2017
118
11
My application Received on April 03
Processing started June 09

Documents requested from Hamilton office on June 29

Comparing ur n my timeline I think you can expect email from.Hamiton office in a week time.
Mustafa , what date did your application went to secondary review and what documents did the Hamilton office ask for ?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,175
applying for a PRTD feels risky, although I will have proof that I need to get back to Uni, they still can take up to 5 weeks, i can not wait more than 3..


I do not know how important this upcoming travel is for you. As Buletruck offered, and outflare as well, perhaps delaying or cancelling the trip is the prudent thing to do.

So long as you can reasonably prove your presence in Canada for most of the last three years, and given that you are now married to a Canadian citizen, you should be able to keep PR status and eventually obtain the necessary documents to return to Canada. But you could get stuck abroad for a time.

So the big risk, if you go, is encountering some delay in getting back to Canada. How that goes can vary greatly depending on many factors. How inconvenient that is for you will vary too, and this can depend on factors like your personal finances and available accommodations in the country in which you are delayed.

Other than the Americans and Brits I know (both of whom could easily return to Canada without a PRC or PR TD, their arrogant sense of entitlement well intact), among others I know most could not afford the risks and would not take the risk. They would cancel the trip. (Actually, some of the Americans I know harbour deep-seated paranoia or are otherwise easily scared, and even though they can use their American passport to board a flight to Canada, they'd be too scared to take the risk of going abroad without a valid PRC, which really is no risk for them.)


Background / explanation:

I suspect this is not an easy situation. I anticipate there are some compelling reasons for wanting to make this trip. My sense is this is a hard situation. My sense is that deciding to not go on this trip would be a very hard decision to make.

And there is a chance you feel as though the system is unfair. You are, after all, in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation (now). Isn't it unfair for the system to not facilitate you being able to take a brief trip abroad at this stage?

It may not alleviate the pain, but I can offer an explanation for how things are the way they are.

First, though, perhaps you could attempt to make a request for urgent processing of your PR card application. As Buletruck noted, IRCC no longer provides urgent processing for vacation travel. You could, nonetheless, make the request. State your situation. Explain your history, your recent marriage, the reason why this trip is important to you, and how you really need to return to Canada by such and such a date, so you cannot depend on the PR TD process. Include copies of paid for tickets (hopefully refundable tickets).

That might work. You are running out of time to do even that. But if you rush that into IRCC it might actually work.

Otherwise, without knowing how important the trip is to you, the fall back is to cancel the trip. If you can.


The explanation --

Part of the problem is that if you are abroad without a valid PR card, you are presumed to not have valid PR status.
Technically the statute states: ". . . a person who is outside Canada and who does not present a status document indicating permanent resident status is presumed not to have permanent resident status."
See IRPA Section 31(2)(b) at http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-8.html#docCont
The "status document" is a reference to a PR card.

That is a rebuttable presumption, and for most PRs readily, even easily rebutted. And actually that is what the PR TD application process is about, the PR submitting sufficient proof of PR status and compliance with the PR RO, so that the visa office will issue a PR TD.

In the meantime, however, unlike the Americans, Brits, and many others (albeit mostly from visa exempt countries) who can travel to Canada via the U.S., those without the means to get to Canada without a PR card or PR TD will have to suffer any processing timeline delays by staying abroad, until either the PR TD is issued or if the PR TD is denied, until a special PR TD is applied for and issued allowing the PR to come to Canada pending an appeal.

Getting to this point is, of course, neither an accident nor the result of inappropriate discrimination. Choosing to go abroad now will have some risk of running into problems coming back to Canada. That is your situation.


Reminders: Cutting-it-close has risks.

Among those risks is the chance that there will be a situation in which there are compelling reasons to travel abroad before being able to obtain a replacement PR card.

Actually failing to comply with the PR Residency Obligation, which apparently was your situation, elevates those risks even though the breach has subsequently been cured.

These reminders probably are not news. I mention them, however, to highlight that in many respects whatever options you have had, you have already made some decisions which dictate (and limit) your options going forward. Having been in breach of the PR RO for two years plus, from sometime in May 2014 to two years later, to sometime in May or June 2016, that is nearly two of the last three years, is indeed a personal history which means IRCC is bound have suspicions and far more likely to elevate scrutiny (which means non-routine processing and time) for either a PR card application or a PR Travel Document application. That should be anticipated, perhaps even expected.

This is not to cast fault. Indeed, you refer to being abroad to finish high school, which suggests you are at an age for which IRCC tends to be more flexible in enforcing the PR RO (even though obviously you could have attended high school in Canada). Thus, despite the period of time during which you were in breach of the PR RO, the odds were perhaps quite good that IRCC would not revoke your PR status if you had of (for whatever reason) been examined, despite the breach, allowing you to keep PR status based on H&C grounds.

And indeed, while of course I cannot offer a definitive evaluation (both because I am no expert and because there are undoubtedly scores of other facts which are important), as I noted early, your PR status probably is not at risk, not much anyway.

But you are at risk of getting stuck abroad for some time while you work through the process of obtaining a PR TD to return to Canada, a process which could take longer for the same reason your PR card application is taking longer, your recent history in which you were more than cutting-it-close and actually in breach of the PR RO for more than two years.

No way to get the river back upstream. It is good you are now solidly in compliance with the PR RO, the previous breach cured. Whether to risk the potential hassles of traveling abroad without a PR card is a personal decision. Probably not an easy one, I'm guessing.

But once you are through this patch, things should settle and you could be eligible for citizenship yourself when the new rules take effect this Fall.


I landed in Canada in May 2011, and moved back with my family to Dubai so I can finish up my high school. I moved back to Canada in June 2014, and in July 2016 my PR expired. I applied for a renewal in April 2017, and my application has been processed and then sent to a local IRCC office. Is there a reason for that? I didn't leave the country from June 2014- March 2017 that's 1000 days I was in the country (247 of them, my PR was already expired though).

Summary:

May 2011- June 2014. PR valid. not residing in Canada. 1130 days
June 2014- July 2016. PR valid. residing in Canada. 753 days
July 2016- March 2017. PR Not valid. residing in Canada. 247 days
By the way: even though, as you say, you have been in Canada 1000+ days, as soon as you were outside Canada 1095 days after the day of your landing, you were in breach of the PR Residency Obligation. So, you were in breach of the PR RO from 35 days prior to your return to Canada in June 2014 until you had been in Canada for a full 730 days . . . and if at any time during that period you had been examined for compliance with the PR RO, in law you were in breach (does not matter that you had a valid PR card most of that time; PR card validity dates are not relevant), and thus could have been issued a Departure Order, your PR status revoked. You did not have any transactions or interactions with IRCC, thus no examination for PR RO compliance, so you managed to in effect CURE the breach by staying in Canada long enough. That is good. You cannot lose PR status for that previous breach. But the history does not get erased. IRCC can and indeed must take it into account going forward when assessing you, especially your credibility, thus for purposes of your PRC application and for purposes of any PR TD application.
 

mustafa8308

Newbie
Jul 24, 2017
7
0
Mustafa , what date did your application went to secondary review and what documents did the Hamilton office ask for ?
it went to secondary review on July 12, they haven't asked for any more information yet. and I only got this information by calling the immigration call center, I can not see it online
 

mustafa8308

Newbie
Jul 24, 2017
7
0
My application Received on April 03
Processing started June 09

Documents requested from Hamilton office on June 29

Comparing ur n my timeline I think you can expect email from.Hamiton office in a week time.

Did they get back to you after you sent them the information?