Post Citizenship Passport Question

[agp2176]

After I become a Canadian citizen later this month I will have both my US citizenship and the Canadian. As such I will have two passports. So I am wondering what the best practice is for travel to and from the USA, in particular day trips by car, as I am close to the border.

1) show US passport when entering the USA and Canadian passport when returning to Canada
2) show both when entering and returning

Last year when I went down the states by air, I showed my US passport on exit and my PR card on return.

Any thoughts/ experiences. Want to have the least amount of hassle at the border especially by car.

Tony

 

[hgn]

First world problem...

 

[Natan]

After I become a Canadian citizen later this month I will have both my US citizenship and the Canadian. As such I will have two passports. So I am wondering what the best practice is for travel to and from the USA, in particular day trips by car, as I am close to the border.

1) show US passport when entering the USA and Canadian passport when returning to Canada
2) show both when entering and returning

Last year when I went down the states by air, I showed my US passport on exit and my PR card on return.

Any thoughts/ experiences. Want to have the least amount of hassle at the border especially by car.

Tony

ALWAYS enter the USA on your U.S. passport!!!

If you use your Canadian passport, or any foreign travel document, to enter the U.S., the U.S. State Dept. can take the position that you became a Canadian citizen "with the intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship," using your use of a foreign travel document as proof of your intention. This could result in a revocation of your U.S. citizenship.

As a dual citizen, you must always act (including speech and blogs) as an American citizen would act. This means entering and exiting the U.S. on a U.S. travel document and filing U.S. tax returns. Other actions you can take that establish your intent to maintain U.S. citizenship is voting in U.S. elections and taking other actions that only U.S. citizens can perform.

And whenever you are asked your citizenship, ALWAYS include your American citizenship. There is a rumoured case of someone who had their American citizenship revoked because they did not mention their American citizenship on their application for a Canadian passport.

 

[keesio]

Agree with Natan that you need to enter the US with your US passport.

However I disagree somewhat that the US can decide to revoke your US citizenship because of it. Well, I'm sure they can. But it is highly unlikely. Otherwise thousands of dual-citizens would be running to the border for the opportunity to be able to easily give up their US citizenship without the need to deal with the hassle to formally apply for it and deal with the several thousand dollar fee to apply to renounce their US citizenship (and it is no guarantee that the State Dept. will "accept" your application to renounce it). There is growing demand for renunciations recently (usually because of the tax obligations to the US). Contrary to popular belief, the US makes it fairly difficult to lose your US citizenship. All those potential tax dollars you know....

Anyway, I know a few people who entered the US without presenting their US passport. One was in the process of renewing it and was let in without (much) hassle. Another simply forgot it and was hassled by officers for awhile and given just a 1 week visa (even though he presented a Canadian passport which normally allows up to 6 months visa-free). So unless you have a good reason, expect to be hassled at the border if you don't use your US passport.

 

[Slovan]

Well, regardless of what 'visa' the second person was given at the border, once in the US, s/he could scrap it because US citizens... well, just do not care. And forgetting the passport does not equal loss of citizenship, right?

 

[agp2176]

Well -- the situation as I envision it is this:

1) you drive up to the border and present your US passport
2) official asks how long you've been in Canada -- you reply 4 years
3) this answer raises questions - -do you then present your Canadian passport as proof that you live in Canada?

returning to Canada

1) you drive up to the border and present your Canadian passport
2) official asks how long you've been in the USA -- you reply 1 day
3) this answer raises questions as they show no exit for you -do you then present your US passport as proof that entered the US on it?

My guess is that overall you just present both in total truth and honesty and let them sort it out. But then that might be complicated too.

Maybe best answer is -- just stay in Canada ;D

Tony

 

[keesio]

Well, regardless of what 'visa' the second person was given at the border, once in the US, s/he could scrap it because US citizens... well, just do not care. And forgetting the passport does not equal loss of citizenship, right?

While you are technically correct, you shouldn't mess around like that. CBP will have in their system that you entered with a Canadian passport and was given a short visa. I don't know if they can actually do anything but I'm sure they can find ways to hassle you in the future when you try to re-enter. Just not worth it.

 

[keesio]

Well -- the situation as I envision it is this:

1) you drive up to the border and present your US passport
2) official asks how long you've been in Canada -- you reply 4 years
3) this answer raises questions - -do you then present your Canadian passport as proof that you live in Canada?

returning to Canada

1) you drive up to the border and present your Canadian passport
2) official asks how long you've been in the USA -- you reply 1 day
3) this answer raises questions as they show no exit for you -do you then present your US passport as proof that entered the US on it?

My guess is that overall you just present both in total truth and honesty and let them sort it out. But then that might be complicated too.

Maybe best answer is -- just stay in Canada ;D

Tony

No it is not that complicated. I travel back and forth all the time and here is how it (basically) goes for me:
1) i go to the border and present my US passport
2) official asks how long you've been in Canada -- i reply I live there, I am a resident of Canada
3) official lets me through

returning to Canada
1) i go to the border and present my Canadian passport
2) official asks how long you've been in the USA -- i reply 1 day, I was (give reason)
3) official lets me through

This is if I don't use NEXUS. If I use NEXUS, I hardly need to say anything at all.

Oh, and if you don't have NEXUS, I strongly recommend it if you travel a lot between the two countries. You often don't need to say anything at all (once in awhile they will do random checks where you actually have to talk to someone briefly). Makes dealing with border officials a breeze.

 

[alphazip]

I agree with keesio. Crossed many times by car and showed my U.S. passport in U.S., Canadian passport in Canada. Do not present both. Sometimes, on the U.S. side, I've been asked, "what's your status in Canada?" My response: "citizen."

 

[ERJOPA]

This is interesting.

I was planning, and may still do, use my Canadian passport exclusively - only because the last time I crossed the border into the US, the US guards harassed my Canadian wife (for no real reason) mostly because I held a US Passport and she held a Canadian passport. I am thinking: Both of us have Canadian passports - no harassment.

 

[Slovan]

While you are technically correct, you shouldn't mess around like that. CBP will have in their system that you entered with a Canadian passport and was given a short visa. I don't know if they can actually do anything but I'm sure they can find ways to hassle you in the future when you try to re-enter. Just not worth it.

I did not advise doing this, just commented on someone's post. Of course travelling with appropriate documents is the best way. But in a given situation, when someone was 'given a visa' while being a citizen, it just makes little sense. It is not the passport that crosses the border, it is the person, and CBP cannot deny a US citizen entry into the States. Briefly - no need to fear officials, sometimes they are way too arrogant and bold, and I always pay back. Never lost more than 5-10 minutes. But this of course does not mean that they cannot just work up and detain you for whatever clarifications. Other than that, I do not think they can be of much harm.

 

[alphazip]

This is interesting.

I was planning, and may still do, use my Canadian passport exclusively - only because the last time I crossed the border into the US, the US guards harassed my Canadian wife (for no real reason) mostly because I held a US Passport and she held a Canadian passport. I am thinking: Both of us have Canadian passports - no harassment.

http://toronto.usconsulate.gov/service/frequently-asked-questions.html

"I am a dual U.S. and Canadian citizen and I don't have time to get a U.S. passport. May I enter the U.S. with my travel document showing my Canadian (or other) citizenship?

No, U.S. law requires U.S. citizens to enter and depart the U.S. documented as U.S. citizens. Improperly documented U.S. citizens may be barred or delayed considerably at a port of entry."

 

[Natan]

We all know how governments work. If you want to lose your U.S. citizenship, NOTHING you do will avail to assist your purpose. If you want to maintain your U.S. citizenship, you can almost be guaranteed that mistakes made at the border will come back to bite you, and invariably at the most excruciatingly inconvenient moment.

But let's be perfectly clear. A U.S. citizen is required, by law, to enter and exit the U.S.A. on a U.S. travel document -- period, end of story.

The following actions do not automatically have dire consequences, but <i>could</i> be used by the U.S. Department of State to revoke citizenship from multinationals, without notice (you will discover it when you try to renew your passport or cross a border into the U.S.A.):

- Entering the U.S.A. on a foreign travel document
- Getting a U.S. visa of any kind (this is particularly dangerous, as a U.S. citizen would NEVER do this!)
- Presenting a foreign passport to a U.S. peace officer (except when specifically requested to do so)
- Not including American citizenship on forms that ask you to declare your citizenship (even when abroad)
- Failing to file tax returns
- Making statements (on blogs, to friends, in writing, in private, etc.) that can be construed to mean you committed an expatriating act with the intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship
- Making public statements and/or taking public actions that the U.S. Department of State considers inconsistent with an intent to maintain U.S. citizenship

Again, these actions do not guarantee a loss of U.S. citizenship, and are unlikely to result in loss of citizenship. But should CBP and/or the State Dept. decide to turn their beady eyes your way, committing these acts (especially applying for a U.S. visa) could result, in a worse case scenario, with a loss of U.S. citizenship and a permanent bar from re-entry into the U.S.A.

Contrariwise, if you want to relinquish U.S. citizenship, a great way to do that is to become a Canadian citizen; return your passport, by mail, to your nearest consulate, with a letter stating that you are no longer a U.S. citizen, including proof of Canadian citizenship; filing a "final" U.S. tax return; and applying for a U.S. visa with your Canadian passport. There's no guarantee that the U.S. Government will immediately honour these acts, but they certainly create a very legal paper trail of your intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship when you committed an expatriating act (i.e., becoming a Canadian citizen) -- and U.S. courts like clearly documented paper trails.

 

[MiriamT]

Contrariwise, if you want to relinquish U.S. citizenship, a great way to do that is to become a Canadian citizen; return your passport, by mail, to your nearest consulate, with a letter stating that you are no longer a U.S. citizen, including proof of Canadian citizenship; filing a "final" U.S. tax return; and applying for a U.S. visa with your Canadian passport. There's no guarantee that the U.S. Government will immediately honour these acts, but they certainly create a very legal paper trail of your intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship when you committed an expatriating act (i.e., becoming a Canadian citizen) -- and U.S. courts like clearly documented paper trails.

There is a proper process to renounce US citizenship, though: http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html

Also: "U.S. citizens cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

 

[Natan]

There is a proper process to renounce US citizenship, though: http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html

Also: "U.S. citizens cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

In my example above, the U.S. citizen is <b>relinquishing</b> (not renouncing) U.S. citizenship <b>by committing an expatriating act</b> (i.e., voluntarily obtaining Canadian citizenship) <b>with the intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship</b>. The letter to the consulate, filing a final tax return, etc., are all merely intended to establish and document that the expatriating act (obtaining Canadian citizenship) was done with the intent to relinquish citizenship. (A problem many people have with their relinquishment of citizenship is their inability to provide adequate documentation of their intention at the time they committed an expatriating act. Clear, unambiguous and consistent documentation and behaviour are necessary to establish intent and a date certain of relinquishment.)

Renouncing citizenship is not the same as relinquishing it. Renouncement requires the filing of, and subsequent approval of, a petition to the U.S. Department of State, along with a hefty filing fee. A successful renouncement will result in a certificate attesting that one is no longer a U.S. citizen effective a date certain. A relinquishment is not generally acknowledge by a certificate, but is, nonetheless, a legal, valid, and court sanctioned method of losing citizenship.

An involuntary relinquishment occurs when the U.S. Department of State asserts that an individual committed an expatriating act with the intent to relinquish citizenship; or an act that is inconsistent with the intent to maintain citizenship; or an act that expatriates regardless of intent (e.g., taking a policy making position in a foreign government or standing for election for such an office).