Police clearance certificate from Angola for citizenship application

[HighFive]

Folks, friend of mine is facing issue where he can't find a way of getting a police clearance certificate from Angola where he used to work in a mining industry two years ago.
Under new rules he is required to get a police certificate from every country for the past 4 years where he spend 6 months per year.
Unfortunately he doesn't work for that Angolan company any more and doesn't have any contacts left down there either.
Also, the Angolan embassy in Ottawa doesn't offer such a service i.e. police clearance certificate, it is not on theirs website - http://www.embangola-can.org/en/consulate_services.html

Kindly suggest who had the same type of issue what did you do in your case? Wrote an explanation letter and attached it to your citizenship application??

Thank you for all your answers in advance.

 

[dpenabill]

Folks, friend of mine is facing issue where he can't find a way of getting a police clearance certificate from Angola where he used to work in a mining industry two years ago.
Under new rules he is required to get a police certificate from every country for the past 4 years where he spend 6 months per year.
Unfortunately he doesn't work for that Angolan company any more and doesn't have any contacts left down there either.
Also, the Angolan embassy in Ottawa doesn't offer such a service i.e. police clearance certificate, it is not on theirs website - http://www.embangola-can.org/en/consulate_services.html

Kindly suggest who had the same type of issue what did you do in your case? Wrote an explanation letter and attached it to your citizenship application??

Thank you for all your answers in advance.

For clarification, the following is not the requirement:
"Under new rules he is required to get a police certificate from every country for the past 4 years where he spend 6 months per year."

Actually the current requirement is to submit a police certificate for every country in which an applicant has spent a total of six months over the course of the proceeding four years . . . even if it was just a couple months at a time in any given year.

Beyond that, yes, indeed, this requirement can be a substantial imposition for some applicants.

IRCC provides some information, such as at

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/intro.asp
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/

But the link to the information for Angola offers no more than that applicants should apply for a police certificate at the local police authority. Moreover, "applicants" in the context of the information provided by IRCC are applicants for PR itself, not PRs applying for citizenship.

While the embassy for the Republic of Angola does not specifically offer any assistance for this on their website, the embassy may nonetheless offer some information about how to obtain the police certificate without actually traveling to Angola. They would be my first contact in search of information.

Perhaps a lawyer could help.

I cannot at all vouch for the following, but I have seen this address on the internet relative to obtaining police certificates from Angola:
The Department of Justice
Sector de Identificacao Criminal
Rua Rainha Ginga
Predio No. 49
Premieiro Andar
Luanda
ANGOLA
Phone: 244 22233 8375

Again, I cannot confirm, in the least, the above, but it is what I have seen posted elsewhere on the Internet.


Note: There is no doubt, the police certificate is a collateral consequence of Bill C-24 which can dramatically affect a small percentage of individuals applying for citizenship. It is not something, so far as I can see, addressed in the changes introduced by the Liberals in Bill C-6.

That said, there are practical reasons for the requirement. It makes sense, after all, that if criminal activity is deemed a prohibition, that criminal activity anywhere in the world, not just in Canada, would constitute a prohibition. And since the burden of proof is on the applicant, the burden to prove all qualifications including no charges for criminal activity, is on the applicant . . . so any applicant with significant ties and time abroad carries the burden of submitting a clean police certificate for any country in which the applicant spent a significant amount of time, defined to be a total of six months.

The ultimate alternative, of course, is to simply wait, to wait beyond when the four year time frame for the prospective applicant would not include being in that country for a total of six months.

While my personal choice to wait was related to something very different, I can say that I am an individual who specifically chose to wait well beyond the date I initially was fully qualified for Canadian citizenship before applying, precisely because there were some special circumstances related to proving my qualifications for citizenship if challenged. That is, I know and understand and have experienced that sometimes waiting is simply the better path to take.

 

[HighFive]

I'm no expert or even a novice at answering this but maybe a sworn statement with a lawyer stating there is no way in hell he can acquire that police certificate except flying to the country and getting it from the police personally. Which is expensive and we have interpol.

that is exactly what I suggested myself. He called CIC's phone line 3 times to get an answer and 3 times he got 3 different opinions. I told him not to use any of those advises, that is why asking you folks here to shed some light.
Flying to Luanda from Calgary going to cost him at least 3500$ CAD (with the hotel) if he will manage to get everything sorted out within a week. If not then more dollares will be wasted.

 

[HighFive]

For clarification, the following is not the requirement:
"Under new rules he is required to get a police certificate from every country for the past 4 years where he spend 6 months per year."

Actually the current requirement is to submit a police certificate for every country in which an applicant has spent a total of six months over the course of the proceeding four years . . . even if it was just a couple months at a time in any given year.

Beyond that, yes, indeed, this requirement can be a substantial imposition for some applicants.

IRCC provides some information, such as at

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/intro.asp
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/

But the link to the information for Angola offers no more than that applicants should apply for a police certificate at the local police authority. Moreover, "applicants" in the context of the information provided by IRCC are applicants for PR itself, not PRs applying for citizenship.

While the embassy for the Republic of Angola does not specifically offer any assistance for this on their website, the embassy may nonetheless offer some information about how to obtain the police certificate without actually traveling to Angola. They would be my first contact in search of information.

Perhaps a lawyer could help.

I cannot at all vouch for the following, but I have seen this address on the internet relative to obtaining police certificates from Angola:
The Department of Justice
Sector de Identificacao Criminal
Rua Rainha Ginga
Predio No. 49
Premieiro Andar
Luanda
ANGOLA
Phone: 244 22233 8375

Again, I cannot confirm, in the least, the above, but it is what I have seen posted elsewhere on the Internet.


Note: There is no doubt, the police certificate is a collateral consequence of Bill C-24 which can dramatically affect a small percentage of individuals applying for citizenship. It is not something, so far as I can see, addressed in the changes introduced by the Liberals in Bill C-6.

That said, there are practical reasons for the requirement. It makes sense, after all, that if criminal activity is deemed a prohibition, that criminal activity anywhere in the world, not just in Canada, would constitute a prohibition. And since the burden of proof is on the applicant, the burden to prove all qualifications including no charges for criminal activity, is on the applicant . . . so any applicant with significant ties and time abroad carries the burden of submitting a clean police certificate for any country in which the applicant spent a significant amount of time, defined to be a total of six months.

The ultimate alternative, of course, is to simply wait, to wait beyond when the four year time frame for the prospective applicant would not include being in that country for a total of six months.

While my personal choice to wait was related to something very different, I can say that I am an individual who specifically chose to wait well beyond the date I initially was fully qualified for Canadian citizenship before applying, precisely because there were some special circumstances related to proving my qualifications for citizenship if challenged. That is, I know and understand and have experienced that sometimes waiting is simply the better path to take.

dpenabill, thanks very much for your detailed reply, much appreciated.

He called Angolan embassy in Ottawa last week, lady on a phone confirmed that embassy don't have such a service and as well wont have it in near future so no way to get it within Canada. She only suggested to get a visa from them and fly to Angola which is totally unreal in current world crisis situation, he has no money for that.
Friend just called the phone number provided by you above and with his little Portuguese tried to explain the issue, he got same type of request to come to Angola and get it from there. Which is, again, not going to happen.

He will simply write a letter with detailed explanations about the issue and attached it to the application. There is nothing else he can do.

 

[Exports]

I would advice to ask your friend to find someone and let him approach the relevant authority personally with the request and explain in their Portuguese language. It is manageable.

I did the same wanted to get entry-exit records from one of the countries. I was told to visit and get personally with no option.. So convinced one local friend to go and talk. Initially it was difficult, but he managed to get the authority explained them in local language and it was done.

Language/ connection/ presentation would play an important part. I would say delay 10-15 days but get the correct document then apply.
Do you think the CO even care about the letter your friend write that there is no way/ difficult... they don't bother and the application would just meet delayed fate... they will follow ONLY THE CHECKLIST

SO BETTER GET THE DOC THAN BE SORRY

 

[hossamo33]

cant the canadian authorities check themselves if there are any criminal charges against someone in any country? I dont get this PCC certificate thing? So what's the point of a background check then?

 

[dpenabill]

cant the canadian authorities check themselves if there are any criminal charges against someone in any country? I dont get this PCC certificate thing? So what's the point of a background check then?

What Canadian authorities can do regarding checking the background of applicants does not much matter. The burden of proof, for all qualifications for citizenship, is on the applicant. It is a qualification of citizenship that, for the four years prior to making the application, the applicant have no criminal convictions which are the equivalent of an indictable offence in Canada, in any country. Thus, when an applicant has spent a defined amount of time in a country (an aggregate of six months), within the preceding four years, the applicant is required to submit proof of no criminal convictions in that country by way of including, with the application, a police certificate from that country.

This is not that much different than proof of actual presence or residency in Canada: even if the government has more than enough information to fully document when an individual was in Canada, the burden of proving actual presence is still on the applicant.

Even though many challenge the rationale for this, the policy of imposing the burden on the applicant is perhaps one of those aspects which is least likely to be changed in the foreseeable future. It is the way it is. There are, by the way, some underlying principles governing fair process which essentially mandate this approach (which largely come down to allowing the government to deny applications without having to prove grounds to deny the application, so long as there are reasons to conclude the applicant failed to affirmatively prove all qualifications), but it is not worth engaging in a debate as to the efficacy of these since this really is one aspect of how things work which is not at all likely to be changed.

That the burden of proof is on the applicant is dependent on the fact that in Canadian law the grant of citizenship is statutory and not a right.

Again, there is no prospect of this being changed regardless the outcome of the debate whether once citizenship is acquired, if citizenship is then a fundamental right, a debate which has been indefinitely postponed given this government's move to repeal provisions adopted in Bill C-24 which brought the issue into the courts, cases now suspended pending the outcome of Bill C-6. Only a couple Federal Court decisions have addressed this issue, one concurring in the decision in the other, a decision by then Justice Rennie, ruling for example that there is not even a right of citizenship for those born in Canada, that citizenship is no more than a statutorily prescribed privilege. The appeals of these decisions are on hold and will eventually be dismissed when those cases are rendered moot by the repeal of section 10.(2) in the Citizenship Act (as proposed in Bill C-6). To what extent this leaves the Justice Rennie decision constituting an official declaration of Canadian law on this subject I do not quite know, except that I know the decision is technically not a binding precedent in any other case.




By the way: While I do not know for sure whether a statement of explanation for not including a police certificate has a chance of success, I tend to agree with Exports, better to get the document. There is little indication IRCC waives a requirement no matter how impractical it is for a person to meet that particular requirement. If it was legally or physically impossible, that would be one thing. But even difficulty amounting to a practical impossibility is generally not enough.

I cannot say this is comparable to education records for dependents, but I'd guess the difficulties some applicants have encountered getting CIC, then IRCC, to accept and process their applications without submitting the precise documents specified is at the least a salient clue as to how this is likely to go. May be worth the effort to try, I cannot say, but I would not bet on success.

That said, this really can be a major imposition for some applicants, and in the absence of some reason to suspect criminal activity, it does seem to impose a disproportionate and unnecessary hardship on some applicants. The Liberals vaguely promised to remove unnecessary and excessive hurdles in the path to citizenship, so perhaps this is an area in which IRCC can be persuaded to be flexible.

 

[hossamo33]

yes, i understand what you are saying about the 'burden of proof', and i agree with that, and thank you for taking the time in writing all of this.

but im just still wondering, if they will be doing a background check/security check anyway, whats the point of the PCC? what you say makes sense, if a PCC will actually help not require a background check! The only reason that comes to my mind, is that CIC may actually not have full access to criminal records in other countries. I mean, maybe a background check will not always reveal a criminal conviction especially in other countries where databases are not shared with Canada, and that is why they ask for a PCC. I just don't see why a PCC is required if a background check reveals everything! i think it probably doesn't.

 

[dpenabill]

yes, i understand what you are saying about the 'burden of proof', and i agree with that, and thank you for taking the time in writing all of this.

but im just still wondering, if they will be doing a background check/security check anyway, whats the point of the PCC? what you say makes sense, if a PCC will actually help not require a background check! The only reason that comes to my mind, is that CIC may actually not have full access to criminal records in other countries. I mean, maybe a background check will not always reveal a criminal conviction especially in other countries where databases are not shared with Canada, and that is why they ask for a PCC. I just don't see why a PCC is required if a background check reveals everything! i think it probably doesn't.

You say you understand and that it makes sense, but yet you still question why the Police Certificate is required.

It is required because it is an applicant's burden to prove he has no convictions in a country that applicant spent six months or more in during the relevant four years. No matter what resources the government has (or does not have).

In the meantime, any process for doing background checks is of course subject to potential omissions and errors. But even if the Canadian government can obtain fully reliable background checks itself, it still requires applicants to submit police certificates as part of the applicant's burden of proving all qualifications for citizenship, including the absence of any prohibition.

This is typical. The government uses its resources to verify or double-check what an applicant submits, but still places the burden on the applicant to submit the documentation.

Which is to say the government does not do the applicant's homework for the applicant, even if the government has the resources to do it. Thus the applicant is nonetheless required to submit the police certificate upfront even if the government will in turn use its resources, and in effect do the equivalent of doing the applicant's homework, plus some even, to fully verify what the applicant submits.

As I noted, many challenge the necessity of this. But such debates are a waste. This is an aspect of how things work which is not going to change in any foreseeable future.

What this ultimately amounts to is that Canada does not need to find evidence, let alone actually prove an applicant had a criminal conviction in Angola or Chile or Croatia; if the applicant was in the country a total of six months or more, Canada can reject the application if the applicant does not include proof, by way of a clean police certificate, that the applicant had no convictions in that country.

On the other hand, if the applicant submits the police certificate, but IRCC itself finds evidence there was a criminal conviction, that can be grounds for denying the application. In this situation of course the applicant is entitled to a fairness letter explaining what information IRCC has that the applicant has a conviction, allowing the applicant an opportunity to respond to and disprove that information.

 

[HighFive]

Exports, dpenabill,

thanks for your comments and suggestions. He will definitely try to get it thru his friend giving him the Power of Attorney.

 

[Exports]

Exports, dpenabill,

thanks for your comments and suggestions. He will definitely try to get it thru his friend giving him the Power of Attorney.

Some countries require finger print for PCC. I think Angola falls in that category. http://www.fingerprintexpert.in/police-clearance-certificates-from-all-countries.html
Your friend may check this website which is for Indian people who need to get the PCC from different countries such as Canada, Qatar, Angola, Lebanon etc. Let him check if any such service exists from Canada for attested fingerprint services and arrangement of PCC from Canada.

 

[SZ84]

Hi Highfive,

i obtained Police clearance certificate form Angola last year.
the process is simple enough IF your friend still has a local contact in Angola.
in my case i sent copy of my passport, copies of last Angola work visa, sone passport size photo and PCC fee (USD: 100) to a local friend in Angola, who got this for me in about 2 weeks.
the local contact in Angola will take this to any police station who will check his name in the system and will issue him a Police Clarence certificate.

 

[HighFive]

nkam, what did you want to say? Looks like your post did not go thru.

 

[HighFive]

Hi Highfive,

i obtained Police clearance certificate form Angola last year.
the process is simple enough IF your friend still has a local contact in Angola.
in my case i sent copy of my passport, copies of last Angola work visa, sone passport size photo and PCC fee (USD: 100) to a local friend in Angola, who got this for me in about 2 weeks.
the local contact in Angola will take this to any police station who will check his name in the system and will issue him a Police Clarence certificate.

Hi SZ84, thank you very much for your input. I will definitely pass that info to a friend of mine today.

Dare I ask a few questions:
Did you get an original letter by DHL or scan copy was enough for CIC?
Was it made in Portuguese or English? where did you translate it in Canada if that letter was in Portuguese?
Did you give your friend Power of Attorney to represent you in Angola?

Thanks again!

 

[dpenabill]

[quote author=xxxxxx]

Please clarify is the PCC is required for the last four years before applying for citizenship or since being 18?

CIC site says:
"In general, you and all the people in your family who are 18 or older need to get a police certificate. You must get one from each country or territory where you have spent six or more months since the age of 18"

(Apparently this post was deleted before I posted this, so I have removed the name and link.)

[/quote]

Reminder: I am no expert. I just tend to do the homework and some cross-checking, and some critical analysis, before offering information or observations.

That instruction you reference is obviously for visa applications, such as the PR visa application. It identifies who must obtain a police certificate and from which country or countries.

Thus it does not describe which citizenship applicants need to provide a police certificate, nor does it identify the country or countries for which a police certificate is required (for a citizenship applicant).

For that information, see the instructions in the document checklist and in the guide for citizenship applications.

The guide, for example, states:

"For any country, other than Canada, where you were present for six (6) months or longer (cumulative) during the four (4) years immediately before the date of your application, you are required to provide a police certificate for that country.

Format: Original."

Thus who must submit a police certificate is any applicant who, during the four years prior to applying, spent a total of six months in any particular country, even if it was on holidays for just weeks at a time.

From what country: A police certificate must be provided from each country the PR spent a total of six months in over the course of the preceding four years, again even if the amount of time spent in the country was no more than a few weeks at a time but adds up to six months or more in total. (It would be difficult to qualify for citizenship if a PR spent a total of six months in more than one country, so this is most likely about providing a police certificate from just one country.)


Beyond that, what a country provides by way of a police certificate is, so far as I understand, country specific. Perhaps some countries allow the individual to specify parameters such as asking for a certificate covering a specific span of time. I know the certificates provided by some countries simply specify whether the individual has a criminal record in that country, and if so, what that is; dates of events are given but otherwise the certificate shows any record. any time, for the individual up to the date the certificate is issued.

I am fairly sure what the certificate covers is mostly if not entirely dictated by how each individual country responds to requests for police certificates. I have no information for Angola or for most countries. Typically that information will be obtained from the respective agency which provides the certificates in the respective country.

Generally, overall, my understanding: six months total in a country within the four years prior to applying, applicant must submit a police certificate; country issuing certificate determines what is covered, and that will be, probably, usually, any and all records in that country (up to the date the certificate is issued).