Please Help! Review Required For Education

[Fatymasaad]

Dear Experts,

My timeline is as follows ;

AOR - 30th June 2018
MED Passed - 16th July 2018
ADR - 16th July 2018 (ADR was about my activity between February 2018 to 20th June 2018)

Since then no movement.I ordered GCMS notes and got the following remarks ;

ANALYST RECOMMENDATION: Review Required MI3 SUMMARY NOTES: PA CLAIMED 119 EDUCATION PTS FOR "TWO OR MORE POST-SECONDARY PROGRAM CREDENTIALS AND AT LEAST ONE OF THESE CREDENTIALS WAS ISSUED ON COMPLETION OF A POST-SECONDARY PROGRAM OF THREE YEARS OR LONGER"; PA'S 3-YEAR BACHELOR WAS ISSUED AFTER 2 YEAR DIPLOMA, NOT BEFORE; POINTS ADJUSTED. WITH PTS RECALCULATED, APPEARS PA NO LONGER MEETS CRS PTS. PLEASE REVIEW. A11.2: Review Required R75: FSW MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS - Appears Met R76: SELECTION CRITERIA - FSW POINTS/Funds: Appears Met

FSW points total: 74 Ready to Finalize RPRF: Complete

Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) CRS Score at invitation to apply (ITA) 442 CRS points minimum score for round: 441 CRS score at application (APR): 449 / Verified CRS score: 330 I have reviewed the following for CRS points: PA gained points as MARRIED at ITA and APR PA gained points for 3+ year(s) Foreign Work Experience with "Company A, edoc# 228818950" & ""Company B, edoc# 228820545"

From what i can understand, my CRS has been reduced from 449 to 330 pts because of my education.I did a 2 year diploma from 2007 to 2009.Then i did a top up degree for a duration of 1 year.While creating my profile, my agent selected "two or more degrees with one being 3 years+" based to my ECA, WES gave equivalency as following;

Diploma (Original Duration 2 years) - WES equivalency - 2 year Diploma
Degree (Original Duration 1 year) - WES equivalency - 3 years degree

I would like to know if there is any way of explaining to VISA officer about this issue so as to prevent a rejection.Also will not be more easy to reapply again?

Thank you for your help

Regards

 

[ishq74]

Dear Experts,

My timeline is as follows ;

AOR - 30th June 2018
MED Passed - 16th July 2018
ADR - 16th July 2018 (ADR was about my activity between February 2018 to 20th June 2018)

Since then no movement.I ordered GCMS notes and got the following remarks ;

ANALYST RECOMMENDATION: Review Required MI3 SUMMARY NOTES: PA CLAIMED 119 EDUCATION PTS FOR "TWO OR MORE POST-SECONDARY PROGRAM CREDENTIALS AND AT LEAST ONE OF THESE CREDENTIALS WAS ISSUED ON COMPLETION OF A POST-SECONDARY PROGRAM OF THREE YEARS OR LONGER"; PA'S 3-YEAR BACHELOR WAS ISSUED AFTER 2 YEAR DIPLOMA, NOT BEFORE; POINTS ADJUSTED. WITH PTS RECALCULATED, APPEARS PA NO LONGER MEETS CRS PTS. PLEASE REVIEW. A11.2: Review Required R75: FSW MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS - Appears Met R76: SELECTION CRITERIA - FSW POINTS/Funds: Appears Met

FSW points total: 74 Ready to Finalize RPRF: Complete

Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) CRS Score at invitation to apply (ITA) 442 CRS points minimum score for round: 441 CRS score at application (APR): 449 / Verified CRS score: 330 I have reviewed the following for CRS points: PA gained points as MARRIED at ITA and APR PA gained points for 3+ year(s) Foreign Work Experience with "Company A, edoc# 228818950" & ""Company B, edoc# 228820545"

From what i can understand, my CRS has been reduced from 449 to 330 pts because of my education.I did a 2 year diploma from 2007 to 2009.Then i did a top up degree for a duration of 1 year.While creating my profile, my agent selected "two or more degrees with one being 3 years+" based to my ECA, WES gave equivalency as following;

Diploma (Original Duration 2 years) - WES equivalency - 2 year Diploma
Degree (Original Duration 1 year) - WES equivalency - 3 years degree

I would like to know if there is any way of explaining to VISA officer about this issue so as to prevent a rejection.Also will not be more easy to reapply again?

Thank you for your help

Regards

This is very strange! Can you share the exact wordings of wes eca report? And also what did you write for "Completed academic years"? Country of education?

I have exact same education (2yrs diploma and 1 yr top up degree) from UK and ECA came as Diploma (two years) and Bechelor degree (four years), I had no problem. Also from agent's notes it seems he/she lacks knowledge about the education points calculation as he/she wrote "Bachelor is after diploma not before" which is absolutely incorrect. Any post secondary diploma is acceptable, it doesnt has to be after bachelor. Also education points are completely based on ECA report not on the original education level. This agent is clearly wrong here.

Many many applicants were positively assessed with similar eca, not sure why this agent wrote like this. I am 100% sure a visa officer will review it in your favour. Please check the below thread for official explanation.
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/two-or-more-certificates-degrees-or-diploma-lets-get-it-sorted.560332/#post-6996995

 

[Fatymasaad]

Hello thanks for your reply.

As per WES ECA report is “Diploma (2 years) and Bachelor Degree (3 years).Country of Education for both is France.What do u mean “completed academic years”?

Did you got your ppr already?Also what do you advise me to do ? Thank you so much

 

[ECLN]

Hello thanks for your reply.

As per WES ECA report is “Diploma (2 years) and Bachelor Degree (3 years).Country of Education for both is France.What do u mean “completed academic years”?

Did you got your ppr already?Also what do you advise me to do ? Thank you so much

Could you please keep updating regarding this issue? My husband did his studies in France: BTS in 1 year, recognised as 2 year diploma by WES, then he did 2 more years in uni getting Master 1, recognised as 3 year bachelors. I hope it won’t cause issues

 

[Fatymasaad]

Hello Me too I did a 2 year BTS then I did one more year to get the bachelor degree (licence).

 

[ishq74]

Hello thanks for your reply.

As per WES ECA report is “Diploma (2 years) and Bachelor Degree (3 years).Country of Education for both is France.What do u mean “completed academic years”?

Did you got your ppr already?Also what do you advise me to do ? Thank you so much

There was a question in EE profile, completed academic years, you should write 3 years for bachelors because the actual duration is three years out of which you got exempted 2 years. Never mind as this doesn't matter now.

You don't have to do anything, here the case analyst is clearly wrong. He/she does not understand the law of "two or more" degree points. And you did not claim any points by yourself it is the system calculated the points. You are just an unfortunate applicant whose file was landed on the hand of an inexperienced Case Analyst. Education points must be based on ECA report, if the Case Analyst himself does the assessment then why the ECA report? Read Below-

Equivalency assessments (ECA reports) will be used as conclusive evidence that the applicant’s completed foreign diplomas, certificates or credentials are equivalent to completed Canadian educational credentials for the purposes of paragraph R75(2)(e), subsection R75(2.1) and section R78. The ECA report will also include an assessment by the organization or institution of the authenticity of the completed foreign diploma, certificate or credential.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/economic-classes/federal-skilled-workers/assessing-applications-against-minimum-requirements.html

Check the official comparison table (Select CRS and Go to page 11)
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/education-assessed/read-report.html
Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Now you have to wait till a Visa Officer looks at your file, he/she will definitely approve your file. You can resend your ECA report via CSE https://secure.cic.gc.ca/enquiries-renseignements/canada-case-cas-eng.aspx and add a letter of explanation where you should write that, you have got information from GCMS notes that the case analyst wrongly calculated your education points which should have been based on your ECA report.


My application was finalized on 5th November, currently in the queue to receive PPR.
You can read my GCMS Notes which was generated on 8th August here-

Assessment summary
https://ibb.co/hvWPvK

Case analyst notes
https://ibb.co/bETR9e

Program assistant notes
https://ibb.co/kdPYpe

 

[ECLN]

I wonder if I should write a LOE as to why 2 year diploma comes BEFORE 3 year bachelors. At the same time with total of 498 points, my husbands education weighs in only 9 points. So even if they decide that there is an issue and deduct his points my application should still go through

 

[Peacekeeper87]

I wonder if I should write a LOE as to why 2 year diploma comes BEFORE 3 year bachelors. At the same time with total of 498 points, my husbands education weighs in only 9 points. So even if they decide that there is an issue and deduct his points my application should still go through

You shouldn't have any issue at all.
You're comfortably sitting with a high score, even if you lose all spouse education and language points
Plus, I really don't think the recommendation made by the case agent in the application mentioned above will go through, and should be invalidated by reviewing officer.

 

[ishq74]

I think there is some confusion around this here...

First of all, what the candidate considers a "top-up" degree, is in fact considered a 3-year degree by WES. So case agent is basing judgement on that premise, and that it came AFTER the 2 year diploma.

@ishq74 unfortunately, the case agent isn't wrong per se, but just extremely severe. What he is questioning isn't the length or equivalency of the degree. He is in fact basing his judgement on the ECA report as the statement shows:
PA'S 3-YEAR BACHELOR WAS ISSUED AFTER 2 YEAR DIPLOMA.

Moreover, what we need to focus on here, is the fact that he followed the exact definition and validity of choosing "two or more diploma...". Let's take a look at the exact wording of the education level option. The key part is highlighted in red.

"TWO OR MORE POST-SECONDARY PROGRAM CREDENTIALS AND AT LEAST ONE OF THESE CREDENTIALS WAS ISSUED ON COMPLETION OF A POST-SECONDARY PROGRAM OF THREE YEARS OR LONGER".

ON COMPLETION means AFTER. The case agent isn't wrong because he followed the rule, which simply requires the 3 year equivalent degree (Which took 1 year in real) to come BEFORE the 2 year diploma, not AFTER, as he correctly identified. Which is why he wrote:

PA'S 3-YEAR BACHELOR WAS ISSUED AFTER 2 YEAR DIPLOMA, NOT BEFORE; POINTS ADJUSTED. WITH PTS RECALCULATED, APPEARS PA NO LONGER MEETS CRS PTS. PLEASE REVIEW.

It's a bit normal to have put the education for further review, as that's the case agent's job... To make sure all rules are followed, but the final decision is up to the reviewing officer. But frankly, I do think it's a quite severe recommendation to make...

On a more reassuring note, I do not expect this recommendation to be validated.
I'm confident it should go through no problem. Many have done the same.

It's the first time I hear about this kind of unforgiving recommendation. Invalidate all education points. Wow...

No mate, unfortunately, You got that entirely wrong. When you say I have got a Bachelor degree what does this mean? it means you have got bachelor degree after completing at least three years of education. Here the rule is saying you need two certificates, diplomas or degrees and one of which must be at least three years long. Otherwise people who has 2 one/two years diploma or certificate would claim same points. Remember this "two or more" points are higher than Bachelor points and lower than Masters points hence applicant need at least one of them equivalent to 3 years program. And also no applicant claims the point. We just enter our education and ECA details and the system counts the points.

I can end this confusion just showing you one Official link,
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/education-assessed/read-report.html

Click on this link and select Comprehensive Ranking System, then start reading from page 11. There are list of educational credential combinations are given for "two or more degree" points. Few of them are-

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a College Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Completion of College-level certificate
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Post-secondary Diploma with a focus in [area of concentration]
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Now you tell me who is in this world does a College Diploma (two years) or Completion of College-level certificate or Post-secondary Diploma with a focus in [area of concentration] AFTER Bachelor degree??
And why would IRCC publish such a list where they mention both the combination of "Three years more certificate with College certificate" and "Three years more certificate with Post graduate certificate"?? If it was only Post Graduate Diploma then they wouldn't have mentioned those College Level certificates or diplomas.

Please check my previous post and read my GCMS notes. I have done 2 years diploma and 1 year top up, ECA came Diploma (2years) and Bachelor degree (4 years). I had no issue

Bottom line is Case Analyst made mistake here.

 

[Peacekeeper87]

No mate, unfortunately, You got that entirely wrong. When you say I have got a Bachelor degree what does this mean? it means you have got bachelor degree after completing at least three years of education. Here the rule is saying you need two certificates, diplomas or degrees and one of which must be at least three years long. Otherwise people who has 2 one/two years diploma or certificate would claim same points. Remember this "two or more" points are higher than Bachelor points and lower than Masters points hence applicant need at least one of them equivalent to 3 years program. And also no applicant claims the point. We just enter our education and ECA details and the system counts the points.

I can end this confusion just showing you one Official link,
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/education-assessed/read-report.html

Click on this link and select Comprehensive Ranking System, then start reading from page 11. There are list of educational credential combinations are given for "two or more degree" points. Few of them are-

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a College Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Completion of College-level certificate
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Post-secondary Diploma with a focus in [area of concentration]
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Now you tell me who is in this world does a College Diploma (two years) or Completion of College-level certificate or Post-secondary Diploma with a focus in [area of concentration] AFTER Bachelor degree??
And why would IRCC publish such a list where they mention both the combination of "Three years more certificate with College certificate" and "Three years more certificate with Post graduate certificate"?? If it was only Post Graduate Diploma then they wouldn't have mentioned those College Level certificates or diplomas.

Please check my previous post and read my GCMS notes. I have done 2 years diploma and 1 year top up, ECA came Diploma (2years) and Bachelor degree (4 years). I had no issue

Bottom line is Case Analyst made mistake here.

Yeah I guess you're right.
I rechecked Ministerial Instructions for exact wordings, and indeed it doesn't say it has to be before or after.
Just that at least one of the credentials needs to be obtained by the end of a 3 year program.

• (vi) 119 points, if the foreign national has two or more post-secondary program credentials and at least one of them was issued at the completion of a post-secondary program of three years or more,

For info, I'll delete my first post to avoid additional confusion.
Cheers mate. Great that we could clear this up. Reviewing officer will void the recommendation.

 

[ishq74]

Yeah I guess you're right.
I rechecked Ministerial Instructions for exact wordings, and indeed it doesn't say it has to be before or after.
Just that at least one of the credentials needs to be obtained by the end of a 3 year program.

• (vi) 119 points, if the foreign national has two or more post-secondary program credentials and at least one of them was issued at the completion of a post-secondary program of three years or more,

For info, I'll delete my first post to avoid additional confusion.
Cheers mate. Great that we could clear this up. Reviewing officer will void the recommendation.

Yes this is the clarification and I think I have provided this link in my 1st post. here @Fatymasaad need to raise CSE and Upload the ECA report along with a LOE.

Thanks

 

[Aukhan]

Hi all in my case i have eca stating (4 years bachelors degree in 2012)
One year post secondary certificate in 2018.

Will that be an issue as i have bachelors degree before, and post secondary not post graduation certificate 1 year after bachelors degree can i claim points for 2 or more????....

 

[keebs]

No mate, unfortunately, You got that entirely wrong. When you say I have got a Bachelor degree what does this mean? it means you have got bachelor degree after completing at least three years of education. Here the rule is saying you need two certificates, diplomas or degrees and one of which must be at least three years long. Otherwise people who has 2 one/two years diploma or certificate would claim same points. Remember this "two or more" points are higher than Bachelor points and lower than Masters points hence applicant need at least one of them equivalent to 3 years program. And also no applicant claims the point. We just enter our education and ECA details and the system counts the points.

I can end this confusion just showing you one Official link,
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/education-assessed/read-report.html

Click on this link and select Comprehensive Ranking System, then start reading from page 11. There are list of educational credential combinations are given for "two or more degree" points. Few of them are-

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a College Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Completion of College-level certificate
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Diploma (two years)
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Assessment results: Three-year or more certificate, diploma, or degree plus a Post-secondary Diploma with a focus in [area of concentration]
Level in EE system: Two or more certificates, diplomas, or degrees
Points with spouse :119
Points without spouse: 128

Now you tell me who is in this world does a College Diploma (two years) or Completion of College-level certificate or Post-secondary Diploma with a focus in [area of concentration] AFTER Bachelor degree??
And why would IRCC publish such a list where they mention both the combination of "Three years more certificate with College certificate" and "Three years more certificate with Post graduate certificate"?? If it was only Post Graduate Diploma then they wouldn't have mentioned those College Level certificates or diplomas.

Please check my previous post and read my GCMS notes. I have done 2 years diploma and 1 year top up, ECA came Diploma (2years) and Bachelor degree (4 years). I had no issue

Bottom line is Case Analyst made mistake here.

Same here and I got no problem. I got PPR and landed.

 

[ishq74]

Hi all in my case i have eca stating (4 years bachelors degree in 2012)
One year post secondary certificate in 2018.

Will that be an issue as i have bachelors degree before, and post secondary not post graduation certificate 1 year after bachelors degree can i claim points for 2 or more????....

It doesn't matter if it is before or after Bechelor degree. Check the list in this Official link, (start from page 10) if you find your combination then you are good.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/documents/education-assessed/read-report.html