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One day trips to USA too much

dudegujrat

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Jan 27, 2012
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india
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delhi
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Hi all I was wondering that in presence calculator I am going to mention my Usa day trips it was very frequent
I don't know the exact dates from last 4 years.
Only I can remember at least 4 to 5 trips a month.

Would there any questions from citizenship officials regarding trips. My trips were usually grocery and shopping.

Waiting for your responses.
Thanks a lot
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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My husband missed one single day trip to the US and this resulted in RQ. Certainly not saying this happens to everyone - but this was our experience.
 

dudegujrat

Hero Member
Jan 27, 2012
644
30
124
india
Category........
Visa Office......
delhi
NOC Code......
6242
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15/12/2011
Doc's Request.
Waived
Nomination.....
PER feb 20 2012
AOR Received.
feb 20 2012
IELTS Request
sent
File Transfer...
22/03/2012 and 2nd AOR
Med's Request
25 april 2012 by God`s Grace
Med's Done....
30 april 2012 and ecas updated to medical received by GOD's Grace on 7may 2012
Interview........
WAIVED OFF BY GOD'S GRACE
Passport Req..
25april 2012 with Grace of God and RPRF encashed on 16 may 2012
VISA ISSUED...
BY GOD'S GRACE 5 june DECISION MADE 8 JUNE 2012
LANDED..........
21 June 2012
Did he never sent an extra letter onside that these trips are best on my knowledge it can be confirmed with CBSA for citizenship purpose.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
Order your border records. They wont necessarily be complete, but should be pretty close. That's probably what IRCC will go by anyway.....
 

allawy86

Star Member
Jun 3, 2016
153
2
dudegujrat said:
Did he never sent an extra letter onside that these trips are best on my knowledge it can be confirmed with CBSA for citizenship purpose.
Go to website call i94 get your travel history
 

dudegujrat

Hero Member
Jan 27, 2012
644
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124
india
Category........
Visa Office......
delhi
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6242
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15/12/2011
Doc's Request.
Waived
Nomination.....
PER feb 20 2012
AOR Received.
feb 20 2012
IELTS Request
sent
File Transfer...
22/03/2012 and 2nd AOR
Med's Request
25 april 2012 by God`s Grace
Med's Done....
30 april 2012 and ecas updated to medical received by GOD's Grace on 7may 2012
Interview........
WAIVED OFF BY GOD'S GRACE
Passport Req..
25april 2012 with Grace of God and RPRF encashed on 16 may 2012
VISA ISSUED...
BY GOD'S GRACE 5 june DECISION MADE 8 JUNE 2012
LANDED..........
21 June 2012
Thanks a lot guys.

Is it not always 100% right?
 

dudegujrat

Hero Member
Jan 27, 2012
644
30
124
india
Category........
Visa Office......
delhi
NOC Code......
6242
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15/12/2011
Doc's Request.
Waived
Nomination.....
PER feb 20 2012
AOR Received.
feb 20 2012
IELTS Request
sent
File Transfer...
22/03/2012 and 2nd AOR
Med's Request
25 april 2012 by God`s Grace
Med's Done....
30 april 2012 and ecas updated to medical received by GOD's Grace on 7may 2012
Interview........
WAIVED OFF BY GOD'S GRACE
Passport Req..
25april 2012 with Grace of God and RPRF encashed on 16 may 2012
VISA ISSUED...
BY GOD'S GRACE 5 june DECISION MADE 8 JUNE 2012
LANDED..........
21 June 2012
Thanks a lot it should be fine then if I miss a day or so they can always confirm with CBSA.
And I Will also write a separate letter this information of knowledge to be correct.

Thanks a lot
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
83
dudegujrat said:
Hi all I was wondering that in presence calculator I am going to mention my Usa day trips it was very frequent
I don't know the exact dates from last 4 years.
Only I can remember at least 4 to 5 trips a month.

Would there any questions from citizenship officials regarding trips. My trips were usually grocery and shopping.

Waiting for your responses.
Thanks a lot
I made approximately 500 day trips to the USA and applied with the exact number of days (1095 days). Although I was RQ'ed, I was able to provide a complete list of all my day trips. I was granted citizenship exactly two years after I applied.

If you order an ATIP (Access to Information and Privacy) report from CBSA and make a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request from CBP, you can use those two reports to put together a comprehensive spreadsheet of all your trips to the USA. If you are RQ'ed, you can submit copies of the ATIP & FOIA reports (keep the originals) along with the spreadsheet you put together. Do this before submitting your citizenship application.

FOIA (USA) request: https colon slash slash foiaonline dot regulations dot gov
ATIP (Canada) request: https colon slash slash atip-aiprp dot apps dot gc dot ca slash atip shash welcome dot do
 

dudegujrat

Hero Member
Jan 27, 2012
644
30
124
india
Category........
Visa Office......
delhi
NOC Code......
6242
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15/12/2011
Doc's Request.
Waived
Nomination.....
PER feb 20 2012
AOR Received.
feb 20 2012
IELTS Request
sent
File Transfer...
22/03/2012 and 2nd AOR
Med's Request
25 april 2012 by God`s Grace
Med's Done....
30 april 2012 and ecas updated to medical received by GOD's Grace on 7may 2012
Interview........
WAIVED OFF BY GOD'S GRACE
Passport Req..
25april 2012 with Grace of God and RPRF encashed on 16 may 2012
VISA ISSUED...
BY GOD'S GRACE 5 june DECISION MADE 8 JUNE 2012
LANDED..........
21 June 2012
Yeah same with me but I will follow the dates from i94 dates because there is no way I can remember all my trips from last 4 years it might little wrong but we can do nothing else they will figure it out.
 

ajithpl

Hero Member
Aug 5, 2010
270
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Surrey, BC
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Check your credit card/ bank statements if you can trace back online or paper and you will get some dates to compile if you had traveled to US for shopping. I did this along with i94 report and then made quite a few pages in the online calculator for the trips abroad.
The stamping in the passport also I checked for the travel dates.
During my interview he asked me of these frequent day trips and checked all pages of passport for the stamps and seems to be satisfied.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,219
dudegujrat said:
Yeah same with me but I will follow the dates from i94 dates because there is no way I can remember all my trips from last 4 years it might little wrong but we can do nothing else they will figure it out.
Assuming the application is returned because the presence calculation was not included, when re-submitting the application be sure to acknowledge that your accounting of trips is an estimation . . . and make a concerted effort to estimate as close as possible to the number of actual trips.

Do the homework. Really. Make the effort.

After all, IRCC is well aware of the obvious:

-- the fact that proving compliance with the PR RO and proving presence for citizenship is unquestionably, clearly on the PR, so no PR has any excuse for not keeping track of travel outside Canada

-- the PR was there, each and every time, so the PR is the one person is the whole world who for certain can accurately account for each and every trip outside Canada

-- the less accurate the PR's account is, the less reliable the PR is as a reporter of the facts; the reason why there were inaccuracies (omissions even worse) is only one aspect, the mere fact of inaccuracies (again, worse if there are omissions) compromises the PR's credibility

The last of these should be obvious but seems to be overlooked or ignored by many. Since the PR was there each and every time, and is indeed the one person in the world who can certainly give a total and accurate accounting of all trips, if the PR fails to do this by more than a few isolated minor mistakes, that illustrates a either a degree of carelessness or inattention to important details, or an inability to accurately report the facts, or worse, an unwillingness to accurately report, and thus reduces the extent to which the PR's account of facts can be relied upon to be complete and accurate -- this is the definition of compromised credibility.

Make no mistake: second only to actually in fact meeting the qualifications for citizenship, the next most important factor in how things go is the applicant's credibility.

Overall: there-were-too-many-to-remember has very limited utility . . . it may fly some relative to getting the precise dates wrong for a few trips; but it is not likely to fly well, however, if your accounting of the number of trips is more than two or three short or there are numerous inaccuracies. Again, omissions are worse than being off in the date.


Obviously there are other factors:

IRCC is not going to get the same impression of a PR living in Oshawa or Edmonton or Winnipeg or Kelowna who reports a large number of day-trips-for-shopping, comparable say to what a cross-border shopper living in Windsor or St. Catherines or Surrey reports. Context matters. This is one isolated factor. The total stranger bureaucrat at IRCC who is examining and comparing and cross-checking all the details in the application, each and every detail, is looking at and contrasting all the details, looking for incongruities.

Let's be honest: a regular cross-border shopper, for example, will almost certainly have a pattern, and that pattern will have some relationship to other aspects of the individual's life. If there are incongruities, that will invite questions. That is how it works. If a PR who reports regular employment in a job that typically is a Monday to Friday full time job, reports a large number of during the week cross-border shopping trips, that is going to invite questions, and especially so the farther from the border the PR's work or home is.

Unfortunately, even totally innocent incongruities will give a total stranger bureaucrat the impression of an incongruity, and thus invite questions.

To offset this, the best approach is to be as complete and accurate in reporting all details as possible. And remembering that not-remembering tends to not be a good excuse.
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
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dpenabill, thank you for your thoughtful comments. As usual, your comprehensive explanation hits the nail on the head.

So as not to mislead anyone, I should also like to present further information about my situation, providing the "context" that established the credibility of my case:

1. I kept meticulous records of my cross border travel, such that my records included day trips not accounted for by the border reports.

2. I live 15 minutes from the border.

3. I own companies on both sides of the border, and cross over to the USA often. Sometimes I cross three to five times a week. But I always cross at least once a week. The time of day that I enter the USA is also consistent, it's usually between 5:00 and 6:00 AM, or between 4:00 and 5:00 PM. The morning trips are consistent with someone going to work. The evening trips are consistent with someone banking, shopping, and picking up mail.

4. I almost never conduct cash transactions, 95% of my transactions are done by cheque, credit/debit card, or electronic payment. But I spend a lot of money in Canada on an almost daily basis (e.g., groceries, restaurants, Starbucks). When RQ'ed, I provided bank and credit card statements for the entire period, from all my Canadian accounts (3 chequing accounts, 4 credit card accounts), showing a pattern of daily spending that supported a life lived in Canada. I try not to do all my spending on one day, but to spread it out throughout the week. (It might be more convenient to go to the grocery store, the produce store, the bakery, the dry cleaners and the liquor store all on the same day; but if I can go to one store a day and spread my shopping over five days in the week, it does better establish a pattern of spending that supports a life lived in Canada.)

5. My RQ response included all the gas bills, all the electric bills, all the phone bills, leases, Canadian tax returns, and samples of other bills; all establishing a pattern of a life lived in Canada. While we tried to avoid submitting a document bomb, our submission was 500+ pages long. Particular attention was spent to submit documents that established presence in Canada in-between day trips.

6. I made sure the USA logged my entries at the land border by using an RFID travel document and using the chip readers. When the chip readers did not work, I specifically asked that they scan my travel document, so they would have a record of my travel.

In short, from the day we landed in Canada, we consciously created third party documentation of our lives in Canada (financial documentation by spending via banks and credit cards; and travel documentation by making sure an electronic border-crossing record was made on each trip). We consciously established patterns of behaviour that served to support, rather than undermine, the fact that we were living a life in Canada. Consistent, unambiguous actions that can be verified by independent third parties lend credibility. Complicated or inconsistent behaviour often has an opposite effect.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Natan said:
I own companies on both sides of the border, and cross over to the USA often. Sometimes I cross three to five times a week.
Some situations, indeed, will almost certainly result in RQ. And, for any PR who apprehends there are circumstances in his or her life which are more or less likely to result in RQ, it is indeed far more important to not only be able to provide all the details precisely, but to retain and have well organized the supporting documentation . . . particularly where, as here, there might be some question about which side of the border the individual is actually living.

I had a more borderline context, a number of circumstances tending to increase the risk of RQ but unlike Natan's scenario, not so much so. I made a concerted effort (including waiting a long while past the date I had more than the number of days present needed) to be prepared for RQ, and while I did not get RQ, I know that effort was worthwhile. It could have gone differently all too easily.

Anyone can get RQ'd. No matter how well qualified. Thus, there is no sure way to avoid RQ. But the more complete and accurate the application is, including being precisely accurate in the presence calculation, the better the odds are there will be no RQ. And, the more important point, the faster, easier, and better things will go if there is RQ.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
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dpenabill said:
-- the fact that proving compliance with the PR RO and proving presence for citizenship is unquestionably, clearly on the PR, so no PR has any excuse for not keeping track of travel outside Canada
You keep repeating this, but it doesn't make it any less sanctimonious the more times you say it. There are many reasons why a PR might not have a 100 percent correct and accurate accounting of their trips outside of Canada--starting with the fact that IRCC/CIC has historically instructed citizenship applicants to estimate trips to the US if they don't remember the exact dates. These instructions give the impression that estimating is perfectly fine and legitimate and that therefore a totally anal obsessive reporting of trips across the border is not necessary. Of course, this wont stop them from holding an applicant to a different standard once the application has been submitted, so best to keep as an accurate a record as possible.