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NOC 2171 - Help Needed !

yogigal

Star Member
Jul 5, 2015
157
9
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
07-07-2015
Reading through other forum posts has been immensely helpful for me, so big thanks to everyone.

I am planning to apply under NOC code 2171 as I worked as an IT consultant for 5.5 years before pursuing my MBA from the US.

Post MBA, I've been working as a Product Manager for a few internet companies since last 2 years.

My question is :

1. Does Product Manager job description come under NOC 2171[Information systems analysts and consultants] or under NOC 0213 [Computer and Information Systems Managers] ?
2. Please read the slightly long lowdown of the job responsibilities I've posted about my current job and both NOC codes and help me make a decision.

My product manager job in the internet industry has the following responsibilities:
Determine new features and product vision for customer facing digital entities – web sites and mobile apps
Gather business requirements from numerous stakeholders
Get stakeholder buy in and manage stakeholder expectations
Write out specs and job stories for the engineering practice
Manage product roadmaps
Announce releases and organize milestone reviews
Negotiates priorities, scope, funding, and schedule
Ensures that the product backlog is visible and transparent

The Job duties for NOC Code 0213 are as follows :
Computer and information systems managers perform some or all of the following duties:
Plan, organize, direct, control and evaluate the operations of information systems and electronic data processing (EDP) departments and companies
Develop and implement policies and procedures for electronic data processing and computer systems development and operations
Meet with clients to discuss system requirements, specifications, costs and timelines
Assemble and manage teams of information systems personnel to design, develop, implement, operate and administer computer and telecommunications software, networks and information systems
Control the budget and expenditures of the department, company or project
Recruit and supervise computer analysts, engineers, programmers, technicians and other personnel and oversee their professional development and training.

The Job duties for NOC Code 2171 are as follows:
The following is a summary of the main duties for some occupations in this unit group:
Information systems business analysts and consultants confer with clients to identify and document requirements, conduct business and technical studies, design, develop, integrate and implement information systems business solutions, and provide advice on information systems strategy, policy, management, security and service delivery.
Systems security analysts confer with clients to identify and document requirements, assess physical and technical security risks to data, software and hardware, and develop policies, procedures and contingency plans to minimize the effects of security breaches.
Information systems quality assurance analysts develop and implement policies and procedures throughout the software development life cycle to maximize the efficiency, effectiveness and overall quality of software products and information systems.
Systems auditors conduct independent third-party reviews to assess quality assurance practices, software products and information systems.
 

yogigal

Star Member
Jul 5, 2015
157
9
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
07-07-2015
Thanks for the prompt response.
however , with this NOC code , I've not had a complete 12 year employment status yet . Here's why

8th July 2013 - 7th July 2014 - At an Internet company in the USA [ then returned to India as I didn't get my H1B in the lottery system].

October 6th 2014 - November 27th 2014 - at a startup in India [ bad job hence left it]

currently,
my status is
Dec, 8th 2014 - Present [ 7 months at another startup].

So basically there is no way for me to show a clean 12+ months straight employment record in this NOC code.

What do you suggest?
 

Asivad Anac

VIP Member
May 27, 2015
10,630
1,398
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
yogigal said:
Thanks for the prompt response.
however , with this NOC code , I've not had a complete 12 year employment status yet . Here's why

8th July 2013 - 7th July 2014 - At an Internet company in the USA [ then returned to India as I didn't get my H1B in the lottery system].

October 6th 2014 - November 27th 2014 - at a startup in India [ bad job hence left it]

currently,
my status is
Dec, 8th 2014 - Present [ 7 months at another startup].

So basically there is no way for me to show a clean 12+ months straight employment record in this NOC code.

What do you suggest?
I was replying to the limited question of NOC code corresponding to the Product Manager portfolio.

Overall, choose that NOC as the primary which gives you the longest period of verifiable work experience because that counts for points towards program eligibility under FSWP. Under CRS, you don't get incremental points for more than 3 years of work experience.

I would recommend you apply under the Primary NOC 2171 even though it isn't your current NOC provided you can get reference letters from past employers for this NOC. If you can do that, you don't even need to include the other jobs in your work history (because you claim NO points for them) and simply mention that in your personal history.

Hope that clarifies. All the best!
 

darklord

Hero Member
Oct 12, 2014
517
49
125
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Category........
Visa Office......
N/A-EE
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
10-06-2015 (SINP); 04-12-2015 (CIC)
Nomination.....
05-10-2015
AOR Received.
04-12-2015
IELTS Request
Uploaded to SINP Online
Med's Request
Not Applicable - Upfront for EE
Med's Done....
Upfront medicals
yogigal said:
Thanks for the prompt response.
however , with this NOC code , I've not had a complete 12 year employment status yet . Here's why
I assume "12 year" is a typo and its actually 12 months


8th July 2013 - 7th July 2014 - At an Internet company in the USA [ then returned to India as I didn't get my H1B in the lottery system].

October 6th 2014 - November 27th 2014 - at a startup in India [ bad job hence left it]

currently,
my status is
Dec, 8th 2014 - Present [ 7 months at another startup].

If you have worked as IT consultant for 5 years and your job description matches NOC 2171, you have 12+ months continuous employment. For EE, you will need to have 12+ months experience in the last 10 years.

Your 5+ years of work experience is not continuous for 12+ months? If it is continuous, you are good to go for applying under EE.

Your 5+ years of work experience, is it not in the last 10 years? If it is within 10 years, again, you are good to go for applying under EE.



So basically there is no way for me to show a clean 12+ months straight employment record in this NOC code.

What do you suggest?
 

yogigal

Star Member
Jul 5, 2015
157
9
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
07-07-2015
LOL yeah, typo. I meant "12 month" employment status.
 

yogigal

Star Member
Jul 5, 2015
157
9
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
07-07-2015
Asivad Anac said:
I was replying to the limited question of NOC code corresponding to the Product Manager portfolio.

Overall, choose that NOC as the primary which gives you the longest period of verifiable work experience because that counts for points towards program eligibility under FSWP. Under CRS, you don't get incremental points for more than 3 years of work experience.

I would recommend you apply under the Primary NOC 2171 even though it isn't your current NOC provided you can get reference letters from past employers for this NOC. If you can do that, you don't even need to include the other jobs in your work history (because you claim NO points for them) and simply mention that in your personal history.

Hope that clarifies. All the best!
Sorry I have another follow up question @Asivad Anac.
1. You were right that any number of years above 3 doesn't add any more points to the NOC I am applying under.
However, Can i list my other 2 years of employment as a Product Manager under a different NOC code [0231] and still apply under NOC 2171 ? Or would you suggest leaving it out completely?

2. Will I have to exclude this experience when I create my profile in the Job Bank as well? I know its too soon to ask this, but am worried about it.

3. Should i try fitting the job duties of Product Manager [which is similar to an IT consultant] except that the "client" is your own company who you work for and you are not working on "outsourced IT projects" but basically doing the same thing. Or do you think this could jeopardize my simple application process and lead to confusion & a possible rejection?
 

Asivad Anac

VIP Member
May 27, 2015
10,630
1,398
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
yogigal said:
Sorry I have another follow up question @ Asivad Anac.
1. You were right that any number of years above 3 doesn't add any more points to the NOC I am applying under.
However, Can i list my other 2 years of employment as a Product Manager under a different NOC code [0231] and still apply under NOC 2171 ? Or would you suggest leaving it out completely?

Your choice to include or exclude that experience, You are getting no points for it but if you include it in work history, it is mandatory to submit work reference letters in CIC format. If you exclude it from work history and include only in personal history later, that is perfectly legit and you don't have to run around for reference letters.

2. Will I have to exclude this experience when I create my profile in the Job Bank as well? I know its too soon to ask this, but am worried about it.

No. You can include this there. Job Bank has nothing to do with this end of CIC business.

3. Should i try fitting the job duties of Product Manager [which is similar to an IT consultant] except that the "client" is your own company who you work for and you are not working on "outsourced IT projects" but basically doing the same thing. Or do you think this could jeopardize my simple application process and lead to confusion & a possible rejection?

Yes. And there is no reason to even consider doing that. You have more than 3 years of work experience under NOC 2171 already and you are maxed out there. Adding more experience is redundant. I hope you have already checked your program eligibility under FSWP using NOC 2171 - should not be a problem given that you have a Masters degree along with significant work experience but check that as well.
 

yogigal

Star Member
Jul 5, 2015
157
9
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
07-07-2015
Makes complete sense. I see no incentive but maybe its just that I felt bad not getting credit for it in Work Ex , especially since I am applying most Masters skills there and one of those jobs was in the USofA.
:(
 

Asivad Anac

VIP Member
May 27, 2015
10,630
1,398
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
yogigal said:
Makes complete sense. I see no incentive but maybe its just that I felt bad not getting credit for it in Work Ex , especially since I am applying most Masters skills there and one of those jobs was in the USofA.
:(
I'm sure it is a matter of pride for you and very relevant work experience given it's recency but the harsh truth is that it don't matter to CIC at all. :)