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New citizenship law questions (Bill C-6) - Travelling abroad etc

MountainLife

Full Member
Sep 9, 2013
44
0
Hi,

Couple quick questions:

I've been following the progress of the incoming Bill C-6 new citizenship laws; in particular the reduction of days required of physical presence to be eligible to submit my application:

https://openparliament.ca/bills/42-1/C-6/ <---------- point (c)

I noticed somewhere recently someone mentioned that Trudeau's government is going to try and pass this Bill by July 1 (Canada Day).

- Does anybody know what the progress of this is?


My other questions are, I'm travelling abroad from October 2016 to June 2017 and curious:

- Is it possible to leave the country if I've submitted my citizenship application?
- Will I run into any issues?
- What's the approxiamate processing time for applications currently as I'm guessing I'll have to come back when they want me for interviews/tests etc?


Thanks again, and look forward to hearing your responses
 

MountainLife

Full Member
Sep 9, 2013
44
0
Note: I'm actively following Dpenabill's "Towards understanding Bill C-6" post in this forum and noticed some people don't think it will reach Royal Assent until very late this year or even next year? :-(
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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MountainLife said:
My other questions are, I'm travelling abroad from October 2016 to June 2017 and curious:

- Is it possible to leave the country if I've submitted my citizenship application?
- Will I run into any issues?
- What's the approxiamate processing time for applications currently as I'm guessing I'll have to come back when they want me for interviews/tests etc?
There are indeed several other topics in which the progress of Bill C-6 is being discussed. Although the legislation may indeed attain Royal Assent this month, there is also a significant probability it will not get a final vote and go to Royal Assent until sometime this fall. Anyone who claims to know for sure when it will happen is BSing.

As I just noted in the other topic, no matter when the Bill gets Royal Assent, the 3/5 rule will not take effect any time soon. All we really know is that the soonest it will take effect is later this year, not at all likely to take effect before near the end of the year, with sometime next year being the safer guess. But we do not really know.

There is no restriction on traveling abroad after applying. The current law's intent-to-continue-to-reside requirement may be applied to render ineligible any applicant who resides abroad after applying, but it appears the current government is not enforcing this requirement in that manner. And once Bill C-6 is adopted, this requirement is not only repealed, but it will be as if it never was a part of the law.

That said, extended absences after applying can lead to issues.

There are, of course, the potential logistical problems of getting to a scheduled event on short notice. I am not familiar with the current pattern in the timing of notices since the Liberals formed the government; under Kenney and Alexander, CIC often gave less than three weeks notice, sometimes as little as just over a week. Many applicants relied on family members or close friends to open their mail and keep them informed, and ran into problems when there was some delay in doing this, resulting in the applicant not being able to get back to Canada and appear at the time scheduled. (As I recall, I had about three weeks notice for my interview.)

But extended absences have long invited CIC (now IRCC of course) to at least examine the applicant more extensively. This goes back to the Liberal government before Harper's first term as Prime Minister, when in 2005 an OB included indications of returning to Canada in time to attend an interview or the test as a reason-to-question-residency. That OB was subsequently incorporated into the Operational Manual CP-5 governing assessment of residence. While this manual is no longer in effect, ostensibly replaced by the current Program Delivery Instructions, my sense is that if and when IRCC perceives that an applicant is residing abroad after applying, there is at least an increased risk of elevated scrutiny, including RQ (apparently IRCC is still labeling the full-blown request for proof of compliance with the presence requirement as a "Residence Questionnaire" even though now the requirement is specifically a presence requirement not a residency requirement).

Criteria used to identify applicants to be targeted for elevated scrutiny is now confidential information. While we have some idea of the criteria , due to a leak of the File Requirements Checklist back in 2012, both the criteria and the way it is applied have changed, and probably changed already more under the Liberal government. One way or another, however, my guess is that an extended absence abroad, particularly one of the length of time you are talking about (which is long enough to constitute residing abroad, even if one characterizes that as a temporary residence abroad), will continue to potentially invite elevated scrutiny, up to and including potentially RQ. This is not to say it would be necessarily problematic. Even under the Conservative government, CIC appeared to recognize some applicants abroad for an extended time period were nonetheless well-established in Canada, the absence was temporary, and perceived no reason to pursue further inquiry or impose RQ. (Typical example was an applicant who went abroad for a particular advanced educational course of study, or internship, or such.)

All of which means it is difficult, if not impossible, to guess the extent to which residing abroad after applying might have an impact on how the processing goes.


Current processing time lines:

So far as I have discerned, the time line continues to vary greatly, even routine applications taking from six months to a year and a half, and non-routine applications from less than a year to more than two years (even longer if one includes those still bogged down from a few years ago).

The IRCC website posts information about current processing time lines. That information tends to be a time line significantly longer than how long it takes for a majority of routinely processed applications, way longer than some. But it can go longer.

There are many factors which can influence how long it takes, many if not most of which are beyond the individual's control. But there are also many factors which are within the applicant's control. Too many to attempt to enumerate here. Clue: failure to precisely, accurately, and completely declare ALL trips abroad is a factor which dramatically increases the risk of a much longer time line. And, obviously, any complicating aspect of the individual's situation can lead to a longer time line.
 

MountainLife

Full Member
Sep 9, 2013
44
0
Hi dpenabill,

Thanks for your input and strong understanding on the matter and finer details.

To be more specific of my situation. I've been a resident now since mid-2013 and have been living in Canada since 2008. I'm travelling back to Australia in October with my Canadian gf for her to do a 1 year working holiday so my hope is that if they decided to look into my case further as to why I was out of the country for so long, they would understand it was more for a holiday and a chance for my gf to see Oz. I understand immigration officers can and will scrutinize things like that.

I crunched some quick numbers and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm thinking I may as well just wait to apply until I'm back in July next year? If the 3/5 rule is in law by then, I will still have over 1095 days in Canada within the past 1825 days (back to July 2012) even with the 9ish months I spend out of Canada on holiday in Oz.

If I hypothetically apply in July 2017 when I'm back, my numbers will be:
1047 days (roughly) as a resident - 331 days in year preceding becoming PR (qualifying as half days) = 1212 days approx.

Apologies for all the numbers lol, just trying to work it all out.

Thanks again
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,467
3,219
MountainLife said:
Hi dpenabill,

Thanks for your input and strong understanding on the matter and finer details.

To be more specific of my situation. I've been a resident now since mid-2013 and have been living in Canada since 2008. I'm travelling back to Australia in October with my Canadian gf for her to do a 1 year working holiday so my hope is that if they decided to look into my case further as to why I was out of the country for so long, they would understand it was more for a holiday and a chance for my gf to see Oz. I understand immigration officers can and will scrutinize things like that.

I crunched some quick numbers and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm thinking I may as well just wait to apply until I'm back in July next year? If the 3/5 rule is in law by then, I will still have over 1095 days in Canada within the past 1825 days (back to July 2012) even with the 9ish months I spend out of Canada on holiday in Oz.

If I hypothetically apply in July 2017 when I'm back, my numbers will be:
1047 days (roughly) as a resident - 331 days in year preceding becoming PR (qualifying as half days) = 1212 days approx.

Apologies for all the numbers lol, just trying to work it all out.

Thanks again
Plenty of time before you do a more or less final numbers crunch and make firm plans.

I am no expert. My opinion leans toward having a comfortable margin over the minimum requirement. And personally I would avoid making an application real soon after returning to reside in Canada.

In the past, many in this and other forums had the view that only a minimal margin over the requirement was necessary, and of course technically no margin is necessary, since meeting the requirement meets the requirement. While I tend to be a risk averse old man now (not the crazy dude I was in what now seems like another lifetime), so perhaps my opinion might be dismissed as a too conservative approach (nothing to do with what is politically conservative - I have not abandoned my largely Marxist preferences that much), but to be clear my sense of what would be a prudent margin is highly variable, dependent more on the individual's situation and history. To put this in context, it is not as if I think most applicants need a huge margin, just enough to avoid the impression of barely meeting the minimum and being in a rush, and to offset any soft spots in the proof if push-came-to-shove, mostly meaning RQ. Which is to say, some individuals would be prudent to wait longer than others.

To put that in perspective, I first met the previous 3/4 rule in the latter part of 2011, but my circumstances and history significantly elevated the risk of RQ, and ultimately I did not apply until July 2013. Most do not need to wait nearly so long. And indeed, I might not have waited so long but for the implementation of OB 407 and flood of RQs that began in April 2012 (although in the forums we did not recognize what was happening until well into June 2012, and it took many months beyond that, scores of people doing ATI requests and sharing the results, for those of us in the forums to figure out more or less what was happening). With that happening, and glad that I waited until seeing that was happening, I elected to wait much longer. Otherwise the odds were very high, if I had applied in late 2011 or in 2012, that I would have gotten bogged down with the many thousands whose applications took three to four or more years. In contrast, I took the oath barely eight months after I applied (March 2014).

There is little likelihood of another disaster like the OB 407 fiasco (that nearly shut down the processing of citizenship applications for a half year or so, and created a monstrous backlog, on top of an already large backlog due to elevated screening for fraud in the 2009 to 2011 period). And, but for a sudden rush of applications soon after the 3/5 rule takes effect (due to a large number of applicants suddenly becoming eligible, given the requirement suddenly being reduced by a whole year, and even more so for some who, like you, will also be entitled to pre-landing credit under the new rules), which could lead to some backlog, it appears time lines are still decreasing and will continue to decrease. Historically, in the decade before the beginning of the backlog that started in 2009, routine processing appears to have been steadily around 8 to 10 months, and I would anticipate it returning to that . . . again, with perhaps a bump longer for awhile following the new rules taking effect.

Main thing is to keep precise records of all travel (there is no other source, other than one's own records, which can be relied upon to be complete) and to keep documentation as to where one was living, working, and so on. And then just be smart about timing when to apply, based on your personal situation.
 

MountainLife

Full Member
Sep 9, 2013
44
0
Thanks for the reply Dpenabill!

Yeah absolutely understandable to err on the side of caution. I guess with the ever changing rules of immigration I feel like it is necessary to get my application in and completed as soon as possible to save another crazy rule change that sets the process back years. It seems safe to assume that with the current government only just taking charge it will stay this way for a while but still, I'd like to sort it and become a citizen so I can sit back and relax :)

Cheers, I'll keep following your research and reporting of parliament etc as it happens.

Thanks again
 

MountainLife

Full Member
Sep 9, 2013
44
0
Hey dpenabill,

After re-reading your posts again, I found this link with a little more info on RQ for anyone (including myself) that didn't know what it is:

http://www.immigroup.com/canadian-citizenship-residence-questionnaire-rq

Also reasons you may get a RQ:

http://www.immigroup.com/news/reasons-you-may-get-residence-questionnaire-canadian-citizenship

The RQ sounds like quite a burden to be issued with - An extra $800'ish, a load of extra paperwork and 2 - 4 years of extra application time. Definitely something to consider before applying and very important to make sure all travel is well documented and explained. Any travel over 365 days sounds like an immediate RQ!
 

scylla

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MountainLife said:
Hey dpenabill,

After re-reading your posts again, I found this link with a little more info on RQ for anyone (including myself) that didn't know what it is:

http://www.immigroup.com/canadian-citizenship-residence-questionnaire-rq

Also reasons you may get a RQ:

http://www.immigroup.com/news/reasons-you-may-get-residence-questionnaire-canadian-citizenship

The RQ sounds like quite a burden to be issued with - An extra $800'ish, a load of extra paperwork and 2 - 4 years of extra application time. Definitely something to consider before applying and very important to make sure all travel is well documented and explained. Any travel over 365 days sounds like an immediate RQ!
No - not necessarily. My husband received RQ. It didn't cost us anything additional (apart from some paper for printing, time and mailing). We submitted the RQ evidence about a month after he received it and he received his oath letter about three weeks after that. The 2-4 year RQ wait is what someone would have expected several years ago. It's not necessarily true now.