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Need advice for TRV visa

johnnycage

Star Member
May 24, 2013
67
0
Montreal
Category........
Visa Office......
Singapore
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-01-2014
Doc's Request.
19-10-2015
AOR Received.
23-02-2014
Med's Request
19-10-2015
Passport Req..
25-01-2016
I am a Canadian citizen and my girlfriend is from Thailand. She would like to visit me for 3 weeks during Christmas holidays. I would need some advice on what to include in her TRV application. Here's the story:

Since the last 4 years or so she applied four times for a Canadian TRV which got declined every time. The first three times were somewhere around 3-4 years ago. She wanted to visit her boyfriend at that time (not me). From my understanding from the cases' notes, her TRV was declined mostly because of her salary and savings at that time (which were low). Of course, even though never explicitly mentioned in the notes, her relationship with her boyfriend at that time must not have helped. Last time was in last April, when she wanted to come visit me. Since she got her TRV declined three times before, this time we did not want to take any risk so we hired an immigration consultant. Her case was strong: she had more than 30k CA$ in her bank account, bank statements from past 6 months, a letter from her employer stating her job and salary (22000THB/month, which is good in Thailand), she had traveled to many countries before in the past 10 years (even though all Asian countries), etc. All of this backed by the immigration officer. The only thing I would not agree with was the purpose of visit which was come to visit me. The immigration consultant insisted that we put it in the application since "they will know anyway". So I wrote an invitation letter in the form of an affidavit, stating that I would not marry her during her stay in Canada, that I would support her during her trip, that she would leave at the end of her vacation, etc. which was notarized. Her TRV was declined without an interview.

We asked the immigration officer to request the case's notes. Quite frankly after reading them I understood that the reviewer's decision was mainly based on past declines since many reasons were completely false. For your reading pleasure, here are some of the best examples:

  • "Income is relatively low (22,000 Baht per month). There is no corresponding regular deposits representing this amount (or one close to it) in the applicant's bank books" -> Average income in Thailand is about 7,000 Baht per month, so saying that 22,000 Baht per month is a low salary is completely ridiculous. Also, in the banks book, there is a deposit of ~22,000 Baht every 6th of every month and that for 9 months (all the bank statements included with the application)
  • “The applicant has limited history in her passport- one prior trip to Myanmar.” -> her current passport and her old passport photocopies were included with the application. Her old passport included stamps from Hong-Kong, Singapore and Korea.
  • “The applicant has no children.” and “the applicant's relatively weak familial/social ties in the home country: no children” -> oh well, it seems you need to have children to visit Canada.
  • “the applicant has failed to satisfy me that the purpose of the stay is temporary [because of] -the length of the applicant's proposed stay to Canada” -> She asked for 3 months, which seems, by definition, temporary to me.

I personally wrote a complaint to the embassy and, surprisingly, did not receive any answer. On the Canadian government's website, it is stated that one should reapply if his/her situation changed considerably. Since it did and since I still have a little faith that maybe this time the immigration officer will not base his/her decision solely on past declines, she wishes to reapply later this month to spend the Christmas holidays with me. Here are some details about the application:

  • She has had 30k CA$ in her bank account since last application, that is more than 6 months ago. Banks statement from past 6 months will show a high balance. She still has the same job and receives her salary every month (maybe we should highlight the salary deposits this time?). Letter from employer will be included. Also, a certificate of leave (for the vacation's dates) will be included.
  • She owns a business since last June. It's still young so that's why she keeps her old job as well. Business registration papers will be included. A letter from her two associates stating her shares % in the company and her position will be included. A certificate of leave (for the vacation's dates) from these two will also be included.
  • Her car papers (she owns it since a long time already, but we did not include them in the last application) will be included.
  • She recently (today :) bought a condo there. Property papers will be included.
  • The complete itinerary for 3 weeks will be included. Literally everyday with activities that we will do, means of transportation, lodging, etc.
  • A document stating her travel history will be included, since it seems that stamps in the passport are not straight forward enough for the reviewers.

tldr; my question is: should she mention that she wants to visit me? Can that help? Can that harm? From last cases' notes it seemed like it caused more harm than any good. I know last time when she applied it was to visit me, but it's been 6 months ago, our relationship could've been over for a long time already. I don't want the reviewer to have anything that can give him/her bullsh*t reasons for a refusal. Mentioning it could lead to stronger ties in Canada vs Thailand (which is complete bullsh*t if you ask me, but anyway). However not mentioning it could not lead to anything except complete assumptions, as far as I am concerned. What are your advice? If she still should mention it, I will add an invitation letter like last time.

Finally, am I missing anything in the application? Anything I should add? Thanks!
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
96,902
22,869
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
To be brutally honest - I think the chances of an approval this time around are extremely low given she already has four refusals under her belt. The advice given to you by the immigration consultant for her last visa was horrible (mentioning the marriage). That pretty much guaranteed a refusal and will very much work against you for any future applications since CIC keeps everything on record.

Has she previously traveled to any countries that required a visa for her to enter? If so - highlight that. Any travel to countries where no visa was required to enter won't help her case.

The other evidence you've suggested is good. A three week visit vs. three month is good (three months is a long time and it's not surprising this raised red flags the last time around). If you are including an invitation letter then this by default means she's coming to visit you - so I don't see how you can avoid mentioning this.

Good luck. If you are serious about this girl I would recommend that you marry her as soon as you can and start the spousal sponsorship proces.
 

johnnycage

Star Member
May 24, 2013
67
0
Montreal
Category........
Visa Office......
Singapore
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-01-2014
Doc's Request.
19-10-2015
AOR Received.
23-02-2014
Med's Request
19-10-2015
Passport Req..
25-01-2016
Thanks for your reply. The only country she visited requiring a visa is Burma.

I am not necessarily adding my invitation letter to the application. I will only add it if she should mention that she is visiting me. If that could be avoided, there won't be any letter. In this case I'm just wondering whether it is better to say she wants to visit me or to simply keep it under silence.

Another thing I was thinking about was for her to apply for a US visa. I can go to US for Christmas holidays. From what I have heard these times it is easier to obtain a US visa, and also she does not have any history about US visas refusals and also I will be out of the equation this time (she does not have to mention me since I am a Canadian citizen). I know that US and Canada share information, but she will be asking for US visa as a tourist and not to visit her boyfriend, so with a file like this I think she can have it. Then I read that it is easier to obtain a Canadian TRV when you already had a US Visa, so I thought she could apply for her TRV while there and if it's accepted we could go back to Canada together. What do you think about that?

Finally, about marrying, no need to right now. I am planning to move to Thailand next year. I really just want her to see my country before. Cheers
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
96,902
22,869
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Too bad it's just Burma...

I'll let someone else comment on the invitation letter. I find it difficult to recommend what to do. Normally I would say the invitation letter is necessary. However given the mention of marriage in your last application - I'm not sure what to say this time round.

I don't know if the US visa will be easier to obtain. Lots of people are refused those as well. I believe she will have to declare her Canadian visa refusals on her US visa application. I would say it's actually more difficult to obtain a Canadian TRV while in the US than from her home country (more difficult to establish ties to the home country). But that's just my opinion based on the posts I've seen here. Generally it seems better to do so from one's own home country.

Hopefully others will comment and provide their suggestions.
 

johnnycage

Star Member
May 24, 2013
67
0
Montreal
Category........
Visa Office......
Singapore
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-01-2014
Doc's Request.
19-10-2015
AOR Received.
23-02-2014
Med's Request
19-10-2015
Passport Req..
25-01-2016
Thanks for your reply scylla. I agree that the decision of including me in the last application was a really bad advice from the consultant. However, in my affidavit I have sworn that I would not marry her during her stay in Canada. Nothing about that was mentioned in the case's refusal notes (only that she has strong ties to Canada i.e. boyfriend). Is it how you understood it?
 

Pippin

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2010
4,254
531
I am no expert either, but I think if you don't include an invitation letter they could still question purpose of visit as she was coming to see you last time. In your cover letter you may want to answer for each point they refused and provide clear documentation for proof. For example showing pay stub and corresponding bank deposit. Is there any paper trail of financing her recent business? I don't think putting in a car has much strength (aren't they a liability, lol?), unless you use it to show ongoing bank payments. Social ties to family, church or community?
I fully understand your wish to be able to bring a dear Friend for a visit, and the utter frustration that it is so difficult when you know if she was from England or some other place it would be no problem. Good that you already have Plan B to live there so you know, either way, you will see each other soon and be able to bring her to Canada eventually. All the best.
 

johnnycage

Star Member
May 24, 2013
67
0
Montreal
Category........
Visa Office......
Singapore
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-01-2014
Doc's Request.
19-10-2015
AOR Received.
23-02-2014
Med's Request
19-10-2015
Passport Req..
25-01-2016
Thanks Pippin! I could indeed include a cover letter that answers each points they refused last time since I already did the work for the complaint. As for the car, I read on these forums that's it's a good thing. The car is paid already anyway, so it's only an asset. I guess it can't be a bad thing to include the papers in the application. As for the social ties, all of her family is there (which is very important in Thailand btw). They know that already and it did not change anything in the last application. I wouldn't say she is especially involved in her community/church...

I guess I will give her an invitation letter to include that time also. I don't expect much from this application but meh, we can try. Like you said I have a plan B, but it still sucks that I can't show her my own country...
 

Pippin

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2010
4,254
531
DO include all ties in this application. Don't think they will carefully review previous paperwork looking for positive points! Seems they are trained to seek only the negatives. Make your cover letter clear and easy to read, perhaps using numbers for each point. Good luck.