Nail the Challenge of Getting Reference Letter from Current Employer!!

[siddharthbala]

That's a great attitude Siddharth Bala. Very ballsy.

Did you you have a plan B if your manager turned hostile?

If he was hostile, I'd just quit and still get my experience letter at which point dealing with a more compliant HR staff is easier than dealing with an recalcitrant CEO. I will not let some person's ego hold my dreams and aspirations hostage. If he is okay with letting go an employee who did his work, put in his hours and went the extra mile when he needed to over the past two years because he was insecure about him leaving, then let him fill the void of my role sooner rather than later.

A slightly related rant follows:

A lot of employers these days seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that hiring and onboarding new people is easier. The truth is far from it - hiring new people is a pain, doubly so if they're meant to replace trained employees who cut their teeth in the role and know all the ins and outs of the job. I served HR roles and hiring new artists, conducting interviews and the like, so I know for a fact that what schools churn out these days are essentially no better than what those students were before they started, for the part. The experienced candidates either are solely concerned about paychecks and 'take-homes' and not about an accurate assessment of how they contribute or seem very entitled to being a role because they accumulated a number of years of experience (doing, perhaps, mediocre projects) and thus see themselves as 'qualified' for the position, when they aren't.

I had some words of wisdom from my dad who retired recently and that kind of inspired the move. In his words, "many working people these days see their relationship in the company as more of a master-slave relationship where you are always beholden to the ones that hired you for a job. I used to think like that, too. Then one day I realized that if it wasn't for the work I did, in my own way, the company would fail. Sure, they'd find someone like me, but they wouldn't find me. Remember that as a working professional who has spent a considerable time learning your craft and trade, you have value. If you are working for someone whose hubris does not seem to understand or see this, then they do not respect you as a person or as a professional, which means it's entirely up to you to find someone and work for someone who does. No matter what your station in life is, remember this."

It's kinda stuck with me, this piece of advice and it motivates all that I do. Be a professional, act like one and respect the ones that treat you as one. I wouldn't have made the offer of such a commitment even after my job and responsibilities at my present place of employment ended if I didn't believe in the company and it's employees and what it wants to do. As long as I'm here I'd like to see it succeed because then I'm a part of it's success, which means I'm doing my job right.

So for all of you working professionals, remember that you are just that - working professionals. Your employer should treat you as one and as such, if you're doing your job right, they should be able to comply or oblige you and not be a barrier to your aspirations, wherever they may be.

 

[Stanlee]

If he was hostile, I'd just quit and still get my experience letter at which point dealing with a more compliant HR staff is easier than dealing with an recalcitrant CEO. I will not let some person's ego hold my dreams and aspirations hostage. If he is okay with letting go an employee who did his work, put in his hours and went the extra mile when he needed to over the past two years because he was insecure about him leaving, then let him fill the void of my role sooner rather than later.

A slightly related rant follows:

A lot of employers these days seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that hiring and onboarding new people is easier. The truth is far from it - hiring new people is a pain, doubly so if they're meant to replace trained employees who cut their teeth in the role and know all the ins and outs of the job. I served HR roles and hiring new artists, conducting interviews and the like, so I know for a fact that what schools churn out these days are essentially no better than what those students were before they started, for the part. The experienced candidates either are solely concerned about paychecks and 'take-homes' and not about an accurate assessment of how they contribute or seem very entitled to being a role because they accumulated a number of years of experience (doing, perhaps, mediocre projects) and thus see themselves as 'qualified' for the position, when they aren't.

I had some words of wisdom from my dad who retired recently and that kind of inspired the move. In his words, "many working people these days see their relationship in the company as more of a master-slave relationship where you are always beholden to the ones that hired you for a job. I used to think like that, too. Then one day I realized that if it wasn't for the work I did, in my own way, the company would fail. Sure, they'd find someone like me, but they wouldn't find me. Remember that as a working professional who has spent a considerable time learning your craft and trade, you have value. If you are working for someone whose hubris does not seem to understand or see this, then they do not respect you as a person or as a professional, which means it's entirely up to you to find someone and work for someone who does. No matter what your station in life is, remember this."

It's kinda stuck with me, this piece of advice and it motivates all that I do. Be a professional, act like one and respect the ones that treat you as one. I wouldn't have made the offer of such a commitment even after my job and responsibilities at my present place of employment ended if I didn't believe in the company and it's employees and what it wants to do. As long as I'm here I'd like to see it succeed because then I'm a part of it's success, which means I'm doing my job right.

So for all of you working professionals, remember that you are just that - working professionals. Your employer should treat you as one and as such, if you're doing your job right, they should be able to comply or oblige you and not be a barrier to your aspirations, wherever they may be.

Wow! Nice, thanks for sharing!

 

[pssid]

Sorry guys for late reply.

I worked for two companies. First 1.5 years gave reference letter on compsny letter head. Second is my present company. Working for 4 years. Did not give reference letter, only got experience letter stating my time in job. I claimed points for 3 years so this reference letter was needed. I made a self declaration. I work for a top software company, very well known around world. Additional docs were my offer letter, payslips, experience letter. None of these mentioned my roles.

Attaching the format of the Reference letter i used. This should be on a stamp paper and sworn in front of a notary.
I was successful with this but its still not a guarantee. keep it last resort.

[COMPANY LETTERHEAD]
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
[DATE]
RE: LETTER OF EMPLOYMENT REFERENCE FOR [NAME]
To Whom It May Concern:
I write in respect of the above mentioned employee who was employed with us as [INSERT TITLE] as a Permanent/Contract, full time employee from [DD/MM/YY – DD/MM/YY].
They worked for 40 hours per week and was employed within our [INSERT CITY], India branch.
[INSERT INFORMATION ABOUT THE COMPANY PROFILE]
[NAME] performed the following duties on an everyday basis:
• [list DUITES]
Remember, the duties must list the technical and practical knowledge you have. Good examples of a list of duties can be found here:
• Close collaboration with QA, Enterprise Reporting and System Integration teams in driving the enterprise projects
• Liaise and support Business Analyst team in requirements feasibility studies and discussions
• Design and implement feature enhancements supporting the business processes for the core enterprise systems: Oracle BPM, Oracle ECM, Oracle Agile PLM, SAP, Salesforce.com, Confluence, Jira
• Re-prioritize designs and/or dependencies to respond to new or emerging competitive threats in the market
• Account for the performance, operation, and serviceability of the system
• Proactively identify and implement code enhancements or optimizations for a system that enables improvements in performance, scalability, security, and/or reliability
• Debug a system problem (e.g. asynchronous networking or database deadlock) and resolve difficult debugging issues across a system
• Ensure serviceability and backwards compatibility of fixes across multiple releases by designing helpful methods, tools, and/or processes
• Make sure that best practices for architecture, design, and development were in-place for the system before coding starts
• Develop or improve the engineering system to enable higher-quality tools and products to be developed and delivered; identifies risks, costs, and opportunities for improvement
• Successfully lead and integrate a feature/function through system life cycle (e.g. integration, customer feedback, release, and engineering phases)
Although the above may not relate to your current occupation it should give you a good idea of the in-depth information we require about your duties.
His knowledge and technical expertise span across the following in which he works with on an everyday basis:
Database: MySQL, Oracle [INSERT]
Software: Microsoft SQL Server, Visual Studio .NET [INSERT]
Languages: C#, JAVA [INSERT]
If you should require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours Sincerely,

[NAME]
[DESIGNATION]
[CONTACT EMAIL AND TELEPHONE]

 

[Stanlee]

Attaching the format of the Reference letter i used. This should be on a stamp paper and sworn in front of a notary.
I was successful with this but its still not a guarantee. keep it last resort.

[COMPANY LETTERHEAD]
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
[DATE]
RE: LETTER OF EMPLOYMENT REFERENCE FOR [NAME]
To Whom It May Concern:
I write in respect of the above mentioned employee who was employed with us as [INSERT TITLE] as a Permanent/Contract, full time employee from [DD/MM/YY – DD/MM/YY].
They worked for 40 hours per week and was employed within our [INSERT CITY], India branch.
[INSERT INFORMATION ABOUT THE COMPANY PROFILE]
[NAME] performed the following duties on an everyday basis:
• [list DUITES]
Remember, the duties must list the technical and practical knowledge you have. Good examples of a list of duties can be found here:
• Close collaboration with QA, Enterprise Reporting and System Integration teams in driving the enterprise projects
• Liaise and support Business Analyst team in requirements feasibility studies and discussions
• Design and implement feature enhancements supporting the business processes for the core enterprise systems: Oracle BPM, Oracle ECM, Oracle Agile PLM, SAP, Salesforce.com, Confluence, Jira
• Re-prioritize designs and/or dependencies to respond to new or emerging competitive threats in the market
• Account for the performance, operation, and serviceability of the system
• Proactively identify and implement code enhancements or optimizations for a system that enables improvements in performance, scalability, security, and/or reliability
• Debug a system problem (e.g. asynchronous networking or database deadlock) and resolve difficult debugging issues across a system
• Ensure serviceability and backwards compatibility of fixes across multiple releases by designing helpful methods, tools, and/or processes
• Make sure that best practices for architecture, design, and development were in-place for the system before coding starts
• Develop or improve the engineering system to enable higher-quality tools and products to be developed and delivered; identifies risks, costs, and opportunities for improvement
• Successfully lead and integrate a feature/function through system life cycle (e.g. integration, customer feedback, release, and engineering phases)
Although the above may not relate to your current occupation it should give you a good idea of the in-depth information we require about your duties.
His knowledge and technical expertise span across the following in which he works with on an everyday basis:
Database: MySQL, Oracle [INSERT]
Software: Microsoft SQL Server, Visual Studio .NET [INSERT]
Languages: C#, JAVA [INSERT]
If you should require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours Sincerely,

[NAME]
[DESIGNATION]
[CONTACT EMAIL AND TELEPHONE]

Thanks a lot for sharing the format used by you, it would be of help to many facing a similar situation. All the best! [/list]

 

[Almsot Canadian]

Experts,

I didn't notarize my reference letter. Neither did I send ID proof/visiting card of my manager along with the ref letter. However, OINP has sent me an AOR. Can you guys suggest if should resend my ref letter? With notarization as well as ID proofs of my manager?! In fact none of the documents I sent are notarized. Now I'm scared what if investigator analyst rejects it because of this.

Appreciate your help. Feel stupid to have made such a rookie mistake.

 

[Stanlee]

Experts,

I didn't notarize my reference letter. Neither did I send ID proof/visiting card of my manager along with the ref letter. However, OINP has sent me an AOR. Can you guys suggest if should resend my ref letter? With notarization as well as ID proofs of my manager?! In fact none of the documents I sent are notarized. Now I'm scared what if investigator analyst rejects it because of this.

Appreciate your help. Feel stupid to have made such a rookie mistake.

As long as there is contact details mentioned in your reference letter it should not be a problem. Since you have already got AOR, OINP will get back to you if they would need additional documents or updated reference letter, at least that has been the trend.

 

[Almsot Canadian]

As long as there is contact details mentioned in your reference letter it should not be a problem. Since you have already got AOR, OINP will get back to you if they would need additional documents or updated reference letter, at least that has been the trend.

I hope they do... Thanks Stanlee. That's a slight relief.

 

[Nalanda]

Dear Stanlee,

After a lot of struggle (started in May), today I received by experience letter from the HR of my previous employer. They have mentioned only the following information. But I requested all the information listed below.


TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

This is to certify that Mr. AAA was full time employed with YYY Consultancy Services Limited from July 28, XXXX to October 27, XXXX.

While leaving our organization, he was designated as a Systems Engineer.

During his employment with YYY Consultancy Services Limited, he was responsible for the following:-
task1
task2
task3
task4
task5

(Please note: Skills and responsibilities specified are as declared by the employee and approved by the last supervisor. This information is to the best of our knowledge and without prejudice).

We wish him all the best for his future endeavors.

For YYY Consultancy Services Limited.

ZZZZZ
Deputy Head - Human Resources

Company's address, website, phone number and fax number

Things covered in the letter
- Employee number
- Designation while I resigned from the company
- Full-time employee
- Task and duties performed
- Signature of the deputy head of HR department and his name and designation below
- In company's letterhead
- With company's address, email address, website, phone number and fax number

What should I do now for the below things which are not mentioned in the letter?
- All my designations and their time periods are missing (Paystubs has my designation)
- Salary and benefits are missing (I have 3 years paystubs copies, offer letter, salary increment letter, service certificate with salary on it)
- Mentioned only full-time( permanent is missing)
- Number of hours per week is missing
- Deputy head of HR department contact number and email are not mentioned.

 

[Stanlee]

Dear Stanlee,

After a lot of struggle (started in May), today I received by experience letter from the HR of my previous employer. They have mentioned only the following information. But I requested all the information listed below.


TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

This is to certify that Mr. AAA was full time employed with YYY Consultancy Services Limited from July 28, XXXX to October 27, XXXX.

While leaving our organization, he was designated as a Systems Engineer.

During his employment with YYY Consultancy Services Limited, he was responsible for the following:-
task1
task2
task3
task4
task5

(Please note: Skills and responsibilities specified are as declared by the employee and approved by the last supervisor. This information is to the best of our knowledge and without prejudice).

We wish him all the best for his future endeavors.

For YYY Consultancy Services Limited.

ZZZZZ
Deputy Head - Human Resources

Company's address, website, phone number and fax number

Things covered in the letter
- Employee number
- Designation while I resigned from the company
- Full-time employee
- Task and duties performed
- Signature of the deputy head of HR department and his name and designation below
- In company's letterhead
- With company's address, email address, website, phone number and fax number

What should I do now for the below things which are not mentioned in the letter?
- All my designations and their time periods are missing (Paystubs has my designation)
- Salary and benefits are missing (I have 3 years paystubs copies, offer letter, salary increment letter, service certificate with salary on it)
- Mentioned only full-time( permanent is missing)
- Number of hours per week is missing
- Deputy head of HR department contact number and email are not mentioned.

Option 1 - if you have not got ITA and the work experience under question does not help you gain any points or does not contribute towards your CRS score, then you can remove it from your Express Entry profile. Post ITA you can mention this work experience under Personal History instead of Work History. For any information mentioned under Personal History you need not provide any proof(s).

Option 2 - If you have got ITA but want to remove the work experience, provided the work experience does not contribute any points, you can decline the ITA now and edit your Express Entry profile. This can be pursued only if you have enough to points so that you can get an ITA in any round of invitation (example have an LMIA job offer or PNP).

Option 3 - If the above options will not work or is not applicable then, you will have to get a notarised affidavit where you declare the information required by CIC supported by the documents mentioned by you. Also submit an LOE explaing your case, if possible try to give a colleague's details who is still working at the same organisation (he should be able to vouch for you). The underlying fact here is to submit whatever you have and can arrange so as to justify your case. It should be evident that you have taken proactive steps to submit whatever best you could and request the officer to consider your case on the basis of the information and documents submitted by you.

 

[_Aspirant]

Hi Guys,

Is there any validity of the reference letters obtained by your previous and current employers? Is there any requirement that it should not be older than 6 months or so or it doesn't matter at all?

Thanks

 

[Stanlee]

Hi Guys,

Is there any validity of the reference letters obtained by your previous and current employers? Is there any requirement that it should not be older than 6 months or so or it doesn't matter at all?

Thanks

Ideally for your previous employers the letters should be good enough, no need to get fresh letter every time, in fact, no previous employer will give you new reference letter everytime you request. For your current employer, preferably it should be latest, at least not older than a month when submitting your application.

 

[fabricland]

HI Experts...I am not able to get employment ref letter from on of my EX employer. I worked in this org. for three years (on contract basis),full time, 40 hrs pr week, on the payroll of third party.

What can be the best option:

1. ON PLAIN PAPER: self-declaration ( no supervisor sign) ; print my duties, responsibilities and get it notarized OR

NOT self-declaration but write it from my supervisor side, get it signed from my ex supervisor (who is not in same org.) on plain page, then get notarized attaching his present company business card with this letter.

2. ON STAMP PAPER: self-declaration ( no supervisor sign) as above OR from my ex supervisor as mentioned above.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Stanlee]

HI Experts...I am not able to get employment ref letter from on of my EX employer. I worked in this org. for three years (on contract basis),full time, 40 hrs pr week, on the payroll of third party.

What can be the best option:

1. ON PLAIN PAPER: self-declaration ( no supervisor sign) ; print my duties, responsibilities and get it notarized OR

NOT self-declaration but write it from my supervisor side, get it signed from my ex supervisor (who is not in same org.) on plain page, then get notarized attaching his present company business card with this letter.

2. ON STAMP PAPER: self-declaration ( no supervisor sign) as above OR from my ex supervisor as mentioned above.

Thanks in advance.

Get a letter from your supervisor stating your designation, duration, location and duties and responsibilities. Get the letter notarized and submit it with supervisor's business card and all other documents that you can submit offer letter, appointment letter, salary slips, promotion letters, bank statement showing salary credits, tax papers etc. Submit all of these documents with a Letter of Explanation.

 

[fabricland]

Ok . Thanks Stanlee

 

[Kchandana74]

Option 1 - if you have not got ITA and the work experience under question does not help you gain any points or does not contribute towards your CRS score, then you can remove it from your Express Entry profile. Post ITA you can mention this work experience under Personal History instead of Work History. For any information mentioned under Personal History you need not provide any proof(s).

Option 2 - If you have got ITA but want to remove the work experience, provided the work experience does not contribute any points, you can decline the ITA now and edit your Express Entry profile. This can be pursued only if you have enough to points so that you can get an ITA in any round of invitation (example have an LMIA job offer or PNP).

Option 3 - If the above options will not work or is not applicable then, you will have to get a notarised affidavit where you declare the information required by CIC supported by the documents mentioned by you. Also submit an LOE explaing your case, if possible try to give a colleague's details who is still working at the same organisation (he should be able to vouch for you). The underlying fact here is to submit whatever you have and can arrange so as to justify your case. It should be evident that you have taken proactive steps to submit whatever best you could and request the officer to consider your case on the basis of the information and documents submitted by you.

Hi Stanlee

I have a question on option 2. I am in Canada for 2 years now and I have received at ITA under CEC with an LMIA. I included all my working experience under employment history in Express Entry profile. Now I find that some of my old jobs under foreign experience, the reference letters does not match the requirements and nearly impossible to get new one. What if I keep 4 years of my foreign experience (Points max out at 3 years of foreign experience under Skill Transfer-ability Factors) in employment history and move all other older foreign experience into personal history so I don't need to provide any references

In your option 2, you have mentioned if you need to change job history, you need to decline, change the profile and go to pool again. What if I change as mentioned above. That will create discrepancy between profile and post ITA forms. But I am not gaining or loosing any points by doing that

What's your advice