Moving to another province is a huge red flag for PNP. What about moving to another country?

[thirdcup]

Most cases I've seen here are when your intend to live in that province is questioned when you move to another province, but still live in Canada.

What if you move to another country during application? Will that raise concerns or result in PFLs/refusals? Are there cases related to that?

Background: we've got our nomination under the OINP masters stream, and have submitted to IRCC. However, we need to live in the US for 1-2 year for a job relocation. We still do plan to return to Canada.

 

[FEUTSEU]

C’est vraiment intéressant, surtout que les demandes et les occasions viennent un peu de partout

 

[Alalac]

Most cases I've seen here are when your intend to live in that province is questioned when you move to another province, but still live in Canada.

What if you move to another country during application? Will that raise concerns or result in PFLs/refusals? Are there cases related to that?

Background: we've got our nomination under the OINP masters stream, and have submitted to IRCC. However, we need to live in the US for 1-2 year for a job relocation. We still do plan to return to Canada.

You'll have to inform the province and IRCC about your new status, as you wont be meeting one of the pnp requirements that is living and establishing in the province. Probably your application will be canceled

 

[canuck78]

Most cases I've seen here are when your intend to live in that province is questioned when you move to another province, but still live in Canada.

What if you move to another country during application? Will that raise concerns or result in PFLs/refusals? Are there cases related to that?

Background: we've got our nomination under the OINP masters stream, and have submitted to IRCC. However, we need to live in the US for 1-2 year for a job relocation. We still do plan to return to Canada.

The basis of PNP program is to meet current labour needs. If you don’t plan on resetting in Ontario in the near future and plan on leaving Ontario then application becomes pretty pointless for the province.

 

[thirdcup]

You'll have to inform the province and IRCC about your new status, as you wont be meeting one of the pnp requirements that is living and establishing in the province. Probably your application will be canceled

There's one thing I can't figure out: is living and establishing in Canada before you got the PR a mandate for PNP? If so, what about for those out-of-country PNP applicants without work permits? What about those with expiring status or visas?

 

[thirdcup]

The basis of PNP program is to meet current labour needs. If you don’t plan on resetting in Ontario in the near future and plan on leaving Ontario then application becomes pretty pointless for the province.

We definitely do plan to settle in Ontario in the near future. We just wanted to know if the current move we're planning will be flagged by IRCC as something critical.

From a provincial level, I don't think Ontario cares. When we apply for OINP there's this one requirement that's very explicit and clear: you can either be living in Ontario or be living outside of Canada, you just can't be living in other provinces. But will IRCC care? Will they invalidate the provincial nomination that we've already got?

I'd be curious to know if there are any prior cases and how they turned out.

 

[Alalac]

There's one thing I can't figure out: is living and establishing in Canada before you got the PR a mandate for PNP? If so, what about for those out-of-country PNP applicants without work permits? What about those with expiring status or visas?

For your first question: yes, it is a mandate. PNP is all about establishing, living and working in the province. For or second question - Simple: for those out of country, they are directly invited by the province, through a strategic invitation - all provinces have that modality. Expiring visas and status are different thing.. once candidates are out of status, their application will be put on hold and given time to find another job. If they can't do it, their applications are refused.

If you are moving to another country that means you are not interested at this time to live in Canada. So you can reapply to immigrate to Canada in a near future. In your case, the application won't be put on hold.

 

[canuck78]

We definitely do plan to settle in Ontario in the near future. We just wanted to know if the current move we're planning will be flagged by IRCC as something critical.

From a provincial level, I don't think Ontario cares. When we apply for OINP there's this one requirement that's very explicit and clear: you can either be living in Ontario or be living outside of Canada, you just can't be living in other provinces. But will IRCC care? Will they invalidate the provincial nomination that we've already got?

I'd be curious to know if there are any prior cases and how they turned out.

Can’t remember where I saw it this week but behind the scenes IRCC is discussing with the provinces potential ways to tie residency requirement to the nominated province. Not a simple thing to do but clearly a focus of IRCC and many of the smaller provinces. Also an attempt for IRCC to have newcomers settle out of the larger urban areas.

 

[thirdcup]

For your first question: yes, it is a mandate. PNP is all about establishing, living and working in the province. For or second question - Simple: for those out of country, they are directly invited by the province, through a strategic invitation - all provinces have that modality. Expiring visas and status are different thing.. once candidates are out of status, their application will be put on hold and given time to find another job. If they can't do it, their applications are refused.

If you are moving to another country that means you are not interested at this time to live in Canada. So you can reapply to immigrate to Canada in a near future. In your case, the application won't be put on hold.

Thank you for your insights! Sadly we were nominated in 2022 and back then the invitation score was reasonably low. Not anymore.

I understand most provinces will expect what you said, but Ontario is a bit different. The OINP master graduates stream official website explicitly says you can be living outside of Canada when applying:

At the time you apply, you must be either:

• living in Ontario with legal status (study permit, work permit, visitor record)
• living outside Canada

You don’t qualify if you’re living in a province or territory in Canada other than Ontario at the time you apply.

I actually was temporarily living outside of Canada when applying for OINP, and still got the nomination certificate. So I'm pretty sure Ontario doesn't care. I guess my real question is: now that my application has passed the provincial stage and now at IRCC, will IRCC apply stricter rules and override that provincial decision?

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for your insights! Sadly we were nominated in 2022 and back then the invitation score was reasonably low. Not anymore.

I understand most provinces will expect what you said, but Ontario is a bit different. The OINP master graduates stream official website explicitly says you can be living outside of Canada when applying:



I actually was temporarily living outside of Canada when applying for OINP, and still got the nomination certificate. So I'm pretty sure Ontario doesn't care. I guess my real question is: now that my application has passed the provincial stage and now at IRCC, will IRCC apply stricter rules and override that provincial decision?

But the issue is you are already in Ontario not living abroad.

 

[canuck78]

Based on your own link:
6. Intention to live in Ontario

You must intend to live in Ontario after you’ve been granted permanent residence. We determine this by examining your ties to Ontario, which can include doing things like:

working or having worked in Ontario
getting job offers or applying/interviewing for jobs
studying
volunteering
leasing or owning property
visiting
having professional networks and affiliations, family ties and personal relationships

Moving out of Ontario soon after getting OINP is not intent to live in Ontario. Can’t guarantee anything will happen if you do move to the US but as PNP quotas decrease and IRCC tightens up their process would expect more scrutiny which is already happening. Also conservative gvt likely to be less friendly on immigration.

 

[thirdcup]

Based on your own link:
6. Intention to live in Ontario
You must intend to live in Ontario after you’ve been granted permanent residence.

Yes, but it says "You must intend to live in Ontario after you’ve been granted permanent residence", not during application.

Moving out of Ontario soon after getting OINP is not intent to live in Ontario.

This is highly subjective. At least in our case, we moved out of Ontario just for a temporary relocation, but with 100% genuine intent to live in Ontario in the long term after PR is granted.

We consulted three experienced immigration lawyers in the past couple of months. We got very different or even contradicting answers:

- The first lawyer said you can't move out of the country. If you do you'll be refused;
- The second lawyer said it could raise flags, but if you have sufficient material that could prove your genuine intent (e.g. kept ties in Ontario while away, or have documents why this move is temporary and necessary), then it's fine. Otherwise it's a refusal.
- The third lawyer said it's fine. He said he had 4 clients from China in 2023-24 who left Canada immediately after graduation, applied for the OINP masters stream as outland applicants, and all of them were finally granted PR without issues. He also noted that the OINP masters stream is the only PNP stream that explicitly allows you to be out of the province during application. He inferred that the IRCC checks intention to live, but won't impose higher standard than provinces' standards.

We're leaning towards lawyer 3's opinion since it's backed by actual cases, but we do agree that it's a controversial thing. All are guesses from the case outcomes of this black box, and no one knows for sure the de facto criterion. I'm posting this for your information (let me know if you have anything else to add) and for all future readers who run into similar scenarios.

 

[canuck78]

Yes, but it says "You must intend to live in Ontario after you’ve been granted permanent residence", not during application.



This is highly subjective. At least in our case, we moved out of Ontario just for a temporary relocation, but with 100% genuine intent to live in Ontario in the long term after PR is granted.

We consulted three experienced immigration lawyers in the past couple of months. We got very different or even contradicting answers:

- The first lawyer said you can't move out of the country. If you do you'll be refused;
- The second lawyer said it could raise flags, but if you have sufficient material that could prove your genuine intent (e.g. kept ties in Ontario while away, or have documents why this move is temporary and necessary), then it's fine. Otherwise it's a refusal.
- The third lawyer said it's fine. He said he had 4 clients from China in 2023-24 who left Canada immediately after graduation, applied for the OINP masters stream as outland applicants, and all of them were finally granted PR without issues. He also noted that the OINP masters stream is the only PNP stream that explicitly allows you to be out of the province during application. He inferred that the IRCC checks intention to live, but won't impose higher standard than provinces' standards.

We're leaning towards lawyer 3's opinion since it's backed by actual cases, but we do agree that it's a controversial thing. All are guesses from the case outcomes of this black box, and no one knows for sure the de facto criterion. I'm posting this for your information (let me know if you have anything else to add) and for all future readers who run into similar scenarios.

The 3rd lawyer would also confirm that IRCC review and enforcement have also changed significantly since 2023-24 so tough to compare to present day.

 

[thirdcup]

The 3rd lawyer would also confirm that IRCC review and enforcement have also changed significantly since 2023-24 so tough to compare to present day.

Care to elaborate? We're aware there's a pending regulation change that could remove the review of intention to live at the IRCC stage (https://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2025/2025-02-22/html/reg1-eng.html) - but isn't that actually going to the opposite direction? We couldn't find any other recent amendments that's relevant.

 

[canuck78]

Care to elaborate? We're aware there's a pending regulation change that could remove the review of intention to live at the IRCC stage (https://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2025/2025-02-22/html/reg1-eng.html) - but isn't that actually going to the opposite direction? We couldn't find any other recent amendments that's relevant.

IRCC had been very lax and overlooked most red flags in applications until fairly recently. Now they are going through applications with a fine tooth comb and sending out more PFLs, refusals and doing more investigations. In general you can’t compare IRCC on the last few years to IRCC now.