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christina19

Full Member
Feb 16, 2023
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there was a mistake from my end in physical presence days (21 days). The officer mentioned that I have two options:
A) Withdraw and reapply (since I meet the days now)
B) The application can be referred to a citizenship judge who might refuse the application.

anyone with experience on that? and what are your recommendations
 
there was a mistake from my end in physical presence days (21 days). The officer mentioned that I have two options:
A) Withdraw and reapply (since I meet the days now)
B) The application can be referred to a citizenship judge who might refuse the application.

anyone with experience on that? and what are your recommendations

Do you fall below the 1095 days without the 21 days? If so, withdraw the application and reapply. Zero chance of approval of you are below the 1095 days.
 
there was a mistake from my end in physical presence days (21 days). The officer mentioned that I have two options:
A) Withdraw and reapply (since I meet the days now)
B) The application can be referred to a citizenship judge who might refuse the application.

anyone with experience on that? and what are your recommendations

First I've heard of an officer providing that option - very kind of them, because just letting it go forward almost certainly means refusal. See @scylla's comment above.
 
First I've heard of an officer providing that option - very kind of them, because just letting it go forward almost certainly means refusal. See @scylla's comment above.

It's actually pretty standard to offer the citizenship judge option. If I'm not mistaken, they have to offer that option. I don't think it has anything to do with the officer being kind. I believe it's protocol.

However no point going that route if someone is below 1095 days.
 
there was a mistake from my end in physical presence days (21 days). The officer mentioned that I have two options:
A) Withdraw and reapply (since I meet the days now)
B) The application can be referred to a citizenship judge who might refuse the application.

anyone with experience on that? and what are your recommendations

Both @scylla and @armoured are spot on in regards to practical options: if you are short (meaning if you did not meet the physical presence requirement as of the day the application was made, even just one day short), citizenship cannot be granted based on this application. Re-applying when meeting the requirements is the only realistic option.

So, yep, if you are short, withdraw and re-apply. No real choice otherwise.

Otherwise . . . Regarding Citizenship Judge Referrals:

@scylla has this right . . . the physical presence requirement is one of the very few issues a Citizenship Officer cannot rely on as grounds for denying the application, but must refer it to a Citizenship Judge. This is specified in Section 14(1)(a) Citizenship Act, referring to the physical presence requirement in Section 5(1)(c)(i) Citizenship Act.

As both @scylla and @armoured observe, the right to take the case to a Citizenship Judge offers little or no practical recourse, no solace. A Citizenship Judge does not have the authority to approve a grant of citizenship if the applicant is short of the physical presence requirement, regardless the reason, and even if just one day short as of when the application was made.

On a superficial level some might see IRCC returning applications for failing to meet the presence requirement as contrary or inconsistent with this provision that requires physical presence cases be referred to a CJ rather than outright denied.

Returning applications has to do with what will qualify for processing and is accordingly accepted for processing (this is Section 13 Citizenship Act for those tracking citations). If on its face the application fails to set forth the information showing the applicant qualifies, that application is incomplete and is not accepted for processing. So, if either the applicant's physical presence calculation adds up to less than 1095, or the applicant's claim for pre-PR credit is not supported by documented temporary resident status which when those days are deducted results in fewer than 1095 days presence, the application is incomplete because on its face it fails to present information showing the applicant meets the presence requirement. (There are, of course, many other ways an application might be incomplete and thus returned without processing.)

In contrast, if on its face the application shows information showing the applicant qualifies, it is accepted for processing . . . even if, for example, the applicant failed to declare a trip or more outside Canada so that as a matter of fact they did not meet the presence requirement. That then becomes a question of fact to be determined by a CJ rather than a Citizenship Officer. Rather than compel an evidentiary hearing in which the CJ weighs the factual evidence, most applicants who make such a mistake in their application recognize the error when it is brought to their attention, and withdraw, and re-apply (assuming they now meet the requirements) . . . because it makes no sense to waste the time and effort of going to a CJ hearing which will invariably result in the application being denied.

Some may question why does IRCC verify status (in GCMS) during the initial completeness screening, leading to some applications being returned as incomplete (some of which can be legitimately challenged), but not verify the applicant's travel history (using CBSA travel history) during the completeness screening (they will later if the application is processed). Indeed, I suspect most applicants want to know sooner, not later, if they made a mistake that means they need to make a new application, whether it is due to a misunderstanding about credit for maintained-status, or credit for undocumented visitor status, or it is due to overlooking a trip or two in their physical presence calculation that means they are short of the presence requirement. (I may have mentioned, a time or twenty or more, bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does.)
 
Both @scylla and @armoured are spot on in regards to practical options: if you are short (meaning if you did not meet the physical presence requirement as of the day the application was made, even just one day short), citizenship cannot be granted based on this application. Re-applying when meeting the requirements is the only realistic option.

So, yep, if you are short, withdraw and re-apply. No real choice otherwise.

Otherwise . . . Regarding Citizenship Judge Referrals:

@scylla has this right . . . the physical presence requirement is one of the very few issues a Citizenship Officer cannot rely on as grounds for denying the application, but must refer it to a Citizenship Judge. This is specified in Section 14(1)(a) Citizenship Act, referring to the physical presence requirement in Section 5(1)(c)(i) Citizenship Act.

As both @scylla and @armoured observe, the right to take the case to a Citizenship Judge offers little or no practical recourse, no solace. A Citizenship Judge does not have the authority to approve a grant of citizenship if the applicant is short of the physical presence requirement, regardless the reason, and even if just one day short as of when the application was made.

On a superficial level some might see IRCC returning applications for failing to meet the presence requirement as contrary or inconsistent with this provision that requires physical presence cases be referred to a CJ rather than outright denied.

Returning applications has to do with what will qualify for processing and is accordingly accepted for processing (this is Section 13 Citizenship Act for those tracking citations). If on its face the application fails to set forth the information showing the applicant qualifies, that application is incomplete and is not accepted for processing. So, if either the applicant's physical presence calculation adds up to less than 1095, or the applicant's claim for pre-PR credit is not supported by documented temporary resident status which when those days are deducted results in fewer than 1095 days presence, the application is incomplete because on its face it fails to present information showing the applicant meets the presence requirement. (There are, of course, many other ways an application might be incomplete and thus returned without processing.)

In contrast, if on its face the application shows information showing the applicant qualifies, it is accepted for processing . . . even if, for example, the applicant failed to declare a trip or more outside Canada so that as a matter of fact they did not meet the presence requirement. That then becomes a question of fact to be determined by a CJ rather than a Citizenship Officer. Rather than compel an evidentiary hearing in which the CJ weighs the factual evidence, most applicants who make such a mistake in their application recognize the error when it is brought to their attention, and withdraw, and re-apply (assuming they now meet the requirements) . . . because it makes no sense to waste the time and effort of going to a CJ hearing which will invariably result in the application being denied.

Some may question why does IRCC verify status (in GCMS) during the initial completeness screening, leading to some applications being returned as incomplete (some of which can be legitimately challenged), but not verify the applicant's travel history (using CBSA travel history) during the completeness screening (they will later if the application is processed). Indeed, I suspect most applicants want to know sooner, not later, if they made a mistake that means they need to make a new application, whether it is due to a misunderstanding about credit for maintained-status, or credit for undocumented visitor status, or it is due to overlooking a trip or two in their physical presence calculation that means they are short of the presence requirement. (I may have mentioned, a time or twenty or more, bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does.)

Hello guys, I'd like to know your opinions.
What would happen if an applicant made a mistake on application but still meet the requirement?
For example, an applicant became a PR 4 years ago, have never been travel outside of Canada since PR, but put incorrect date of became a PR (5 years ago) so his actual physical presense is more than 1095 days anyway but the application shows extra 365 days?
Is this sort of application be denied because incorrect information was provided on application so the applicant should be withdraw and reapply as soon as he/she awares it?
 
Hello guys, I'd like to know your opinions.
What would happen if an applicant made a mistake on application but still meet the requirement?
For example, an applicant became a PR 4 years ago, have never been travel outside of Canada since PR, but put incorrect date of became a PR (5 years ago) so his actual physical presense is more than 1095 days anyway but the application shows extra 365 days?
Is this sort of application be denied because incorrect information was provided on application so the applicant should be withdraw and reapply as soon as he/she awares it?

Even though minor mistakes that do not affect the applicant's eligibility are generally no problem, and many mistakes can simply be corrected by webform after AOR, when there is a significant factual discrepancy that is not nearly so simple a question as it might seem.

What to do if an application has been made that includes inaccurate information is complicated and varies considerably depending on the particular details, especially the specific "mistake" and its context. Fact that after correction the applicant still meets all the eligibility requirements is key context, of course, but that alone does not determine what will happen or what is the best approach to fixing the error.

Prudent commentators will be very reluctant (or at least they should be) to offer an opinion about big discrepancies in an application based on a "for example" hypothetical, particularly where (as here) the example lacks concrete details and other context. To be clear, I cannot offer an opinion about what you should do or what will happen. I can offer some observations about what might matter which might help you figure out how to address the situation.

It warrants cautioning that IRCC will not deny an application specifically because incorrect information was provided in the application. It makes a huge difference, all the difference, in whether the inaccuracy is determined to be a mistake or misrepresentation of a material fact. Mistakes are not a stand alone ground for denying the application. Misrepresentation, in contrast, not only is grounds for denying the application but will constitute a prohibition for five years (and could also result in criminal prosecution, albeit we do not see that happen much).

Obviously (or it should be obvious), just saying (claiming) it was a "mistake" does not stop an IRCC officer from concluding otherwise, from ruling it was misrepresentation (which, again, would mean a five year prohibition in addition to grounds for denying the application).

On the other hand, historically IRCC has been rather understanding about mistakes, recognizing we all make mistakes. But of course not all mistakes are created equal, so even if IRCC accepts that the erroneous (not true) information declared in an application (which the applicant attests is true and accurate in signing/submitting it) is just a mistake, or one might say an "honest" or "innocent mistake," the impact of the mistake will vary and what happens will depend on other factors. The big factor, of course, is whether the applicant still meets the eligibility requirements based on the corrected information. If IRCC concludes the applicant made a mistake but still meets the requirements, it will proceed to grant citizenship; the application must be denied, of course, if the applicant does not meet the requirements based on the corrected information.

Rather common example (please forgive me for stating the obvious, for clarity): Applicant makes an application declaring more than 1095 days physical presence credit but mistakenly leaves a three week trip out of the calculation. When those days are deducted from the presence calculation, if the total days credit left fall below 1095 (even by just one day) the application must be denied. If after deducting the overlooked trip days the total is still at least 1095 and the applicant otherwise meets all the requirements, IRCC will proceed to grant citizenship, but that only happens if IRCC accepts the discrepancy was a mistake and is otherwise satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements.

A regular contributor here did indeed make an application overlooking a three week trip, but they had a margin of presence well over that; this was an issue addressed during an interview, following which they were scheduled to take the oath, no significant problem. Many other forum participants were compelled to withdraw when IRCC identified additional days outside Canada that resulted in them being short of 1095 days credit (if they did not withdraw, the application would end up before a Citizenship Judge who would deny it).

So, the key forking path is whether or not IRCC sees the discrepancy as a mistake? or misrepresentation?

-- if misrepresentation, game over, cannot apply again for five more years​

-- if a mistake, the impact depends first on whether the applicant is still qualified based on the correct information​
-- -- if applicant no longer meets the requirements, game over, application denied, but applicant can re-apply if and when they do meet the requirements​
-- -- beyond that, the extent to which the mistake affects the applicant's credibility can have a big influence in how IRCC handles the application​

Just making a mistake indicates the applicant is not an entirely reliable reporter of facts, no matter how innocent the mistake was. So the nature and scope of the mistake, and the context, will influence the extent to which the applicant is perceived to be a reliable, or not reliable reporter of facts. Typically minor mistakes, particularly typographical errors, have little or no negative impact on the applicant's perceived credibility. Obviously, more and bigger mistakes indicate a less reliable reporter of facts. Obviously, if the manner in which the applicant has provided other information suggests evasiveness or deception, even assuming the particular discrepancy in facts was a mistake, that is likely to compromise the applicant's credibility.

Leading, finally, to the particular mistake: a single more or less typographical error in entering the year of an event can usually be seen to be just that, a mistake. Whether this can be corrected depends on the particular date. If the applicant enters the wrong year for the date the application is submitted, that is something that cannot be corrected.

Your "for example" . . . the context looms large. If the address history, work history, travel dates in the presence calculation, and other information in the application, and your immigration history as well, are all verifiably accurate and consistent with having made a simple typographical-like error as to the year in just one entry in the application, that should not cause much of a problem . . . except perhaps if the application was made online it may trigger the application being returned as incomplete (because date in application does not match GCMS record), which would be an opportunity to correct and re-submit. But a lot of how this is perceived could depend on the accuracy of all that other information and how that relates.

If the applicant gets AOR, that too is an opportunity to make a correction via webform.
 
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Even though minor mistakes that do not affect the applicant's eligibility are generally no problem, and many mistakes can simply be corrected by webform after AOR, when there is a significant factual discrepancy that is not nearly so simple a question as it might seem.

What to do if an application has been made that includes inaccurate information is complicated and varies considerably depending on the particular details, especially the specific "mistake" and its context. Fact that after correction the applicant still meets all the eligibility requirements is key context, of course, but that alone does not determine what will happen or what is the best approach to fixing the error.

Prudent commentators will be very reluctant (or at least they should be) to offer an opinion about big discrepancies in an application based on a "for example" hypothetical, particularly where (as here) the example lacks concrete details and other context. To be clear, I cannot offer an opinion about what you should do or what will happen. I can offer some observations about what might matter which might help you figure out how to address the situation.

It warrants cautioning that IRCC will not deny an application specifically because incorrect information was provided in the application. It makes a huge difference, all the difference, in whether the inaccuracy is determined to be a mistake or misrepresentation of a material fact. Mistakes are not a stand alone ground for denying the application. Misrepresentation, in contrast, not only is grounds for denying the application but will constitute a prohibition for five years (and could also result in criminal prosecution, albeit we do not see that happen much).

Obviously (or it should be obvious), just saying (claiming) it was a "mistake" does not stop an IRCC officer from concluding otherwise, from ruling it was misrepresentation (which, again, would mean a five year prohibition in addition to grounds for denying the application).

On the other hand, historically IRCC has been rather understanding about mistakes, recognizing we all make mistakes. But of course not all mistakes are created equal, so even if IRCC accepts that the erroneous (not true) information declared in an application (which the applicant attests is true and accurate in signing/submitting it) is just a mistake, or one might say an "honest" or "innocent mistake," the impact of the mistake will vary and what happens will depend on other factors. The big factor, of course, is whether the applicant still meets the eligibility requirements based on the corrected information. If IRCC concludes the applicant made a mistake but still meets the requirements, it will proceed to grant citizenship; the application must be denied, of course, if the applicant does not meet the requirements based on the corrected information.

Rather common example (please forgive me for stating the obvious, for clarity): Applicant makes an application declaring more than 1095 days physical presence credit but mistakenly leaves a three week trip out of the calculation. When those days are deducted from the presence calculation, if the total days credit left fall below 1095 (even by just one day) the application must be denied. If after deducting the overlooked trip days the total is still at least 1095 and the applicant otherwise meets all the requirements, IRCC will proceed to grant citizenship, but that only happens if IRCC accepts the discrepancy was a mistake and is otherwise satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements.

A regular contributor here did indeed make an application overlooking a three week trip, but they had a margin of presence well over that; this was an issue addressed during an interview, following which they were scheduled to take the oath, no significant problem. Many other forum participants were compelled to withdraw when IRCC identified additional days outside Canada that resulted in them being short of 1095 days credit (if they did not withdraw, the application would end up before a Citizenship Judge who would deny it).

So, the key forking path is whether or not IRCC sees the discrepancy as a mistake? or misrepresentation?

-- if misrepresentation, game over, cannot apply again for five more years​

-- if a mistake, the impact depends first on whether the applicant is still qualified based on the correct information​
-- -- if applicant no longer meets the requirements, game over, application denied, but applicant can re-apply if and when they do meet the requirements​
-- -- beyond that, the extent to which the mistake affects the applicant's credibility can have a big influence in how IRCC handles the application​

Just making a mistake indicates the applicant is not an entirely reliable reporter of facts, no matter how innocent the mistake was. So the nature and scope of the mistake, and the context, will influence the extent to which the applicant is perceived to be a reliable, or not reliable reporter of facts. Typically minor mistakes, particularly typographical errors, have little or no negative impact on the applicant's perceived credibility. Obviously, more and bigger mistakes indicate a less reliable reporter of facts. Obviously, if the manner in which the applicant has provided other information suggests evasiveness or deception, even assuming the particular discrepancy in facts was a mistake, that is likely to compromise the applicant's credibility.

Leading, finally, to the particular mistake: a single more or less typographical error in entering the year of an event can usually be seen to be just that, a mistake. Whether this can be corrected depends on the particular date. If the applicant enters the wrong year for the date the application is submitted, that is something that cannot be corrected.

Your "for example" . . . the context looms large. If the address history, work history, travel dates in the presence calculation, and other information in the application, and your immigration history as well, are all verifiably accurate and consistent with having made a simple typographical-like error as to the year in just one entry in the application, that should not cause much of a problem . . . except perhaps if the application was made online it may trigger the application being returned as incomplete (because date in application does not match GCMS record), which would be an opportunity to correct and re-submit. But a lot of how this is perceived could depend on the accuracy of all that other information and how that relates.

If the applicant gets AOR, that too is an opportunity to make a correction via webform.

Thank you for detailed reply and sharing information and your opinions.

I'm sorry if I came off rude by posting my question here with unclear example. My example was actually made-up example came out from my imagination.

I was posted my question because I felt something odd when I found an old thread unexpectedly. In the thread, a person described they provide incorrect date became PR on their PR card renewal application, and the difference between their application and their actual date was 10 years. I forgot which thread it was, but if I remember things correctly, the person got a new PR card before contacting IRCC.
I know the thread was old, maybe out-of-dated info and it was not citizenship application but PR card renewal. But I still felt something odd.

I strongly agree with you that if the case of that your example (made mistake on travel days) or my example (made a typo in "date became PR" date but meets physical present requirement) happen, it would be IRCC's decision whether it is "mistake" or "misrepresentation".

If the applicant gets AOR, that too is an opportunity to make a correction via webform.

And I didn't know we can submit corrections through web form. I thought it is for "submit changes" that happen while an application in process, for example, mailing address changed between application submittion and receiving certificate. Personally I think "submitting error correction" won't change situation, or may triger the application non-routine or denied...
But by submitting corrections an applicant may prove they are sincere, and their mistake was not a misrepresentation. So that could make situation better as well.

Thank you again for your reply!