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"Minor" - Residency Obligations not met

chicken8060

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Dec 30, 2022
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Hello everyone,

The minor (age less than 10 years) in question received his permanent residency (PR) and PR Card (in 2007) but had to go back to his home country with his family (and did not come back to Canada) due to family emergencies. Hence, the residency obligations were not met. He had his PR expired more than 10 years ago. Now, that minor is more than 22 years old.

Circumstances beyond the person’s control: Permanent resident status determination - Canada.ca

What are his options now? Can his Permanent Residency be renewed now?

Many thanks for your time and help.
 
Last edited:

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
58,991
14,609
Hello everyone,

The minor (age less than 10 years) in question received his permanent residency (PR) and PR Card (in 2007) but had to go back to his home country with his family (and did not come back to Canada) due to family emergencies. Hence, the residency obligations were not met. He had his PR expired more than 10 years ago. Now, that minor is more than 22 years old.

Circumstances beyond the person’s control: Permanent resident status determination - Canada.ca

What are his options now? Can his Permanent Residency be renewed now?

Many thanks for your time and help.
They can attempt to keep their PR status and return to Canada but should have really tried to return as soon as they became an adult at age 18. Whether they ever spent any time in Canada can also factor into the decision. It doesn’t seem like that is the case. Did the child obtain a SIN# when they came to Canada.
 
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chicken8060

Newbie
Dec 30, 2022
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Yes. He has COPR, Visa, PR card, SIN card, Health Insurance card. The family lived in Canada for around 3 months. However, in this Permanent resident status determination - Canada.ca , it is written that "Are they now over 22 years of age and returning at the earliest opportunity since becoming 22 years of age?". So, the minor is kind of trying to return to Canada as soon as possible.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
58,991
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Yes. He has COPR, Visa, PR card, SIN card, Health Insurance card. The family lived in Canada for around 3 months. However, in this Permanent resident status determination - Canada.ca , it is written that "Are they now over 22 years of age and returning at the earliest opportunity since becoming 22 years of age?". So, the minor is kind of trying to return to Canada as soon as possible.
The family never qualified for health coverage if only remained for 3 months. The child has minimal ties to Canada. The website has clearly not been updated. It used to be easier to retain PR status if you returned to Canada before you were 25. Now you must be as close to 18 to have the best chance of approval especially if you have never spent much time in Canada. The 2 options are to apply for PRTzd based on H&C from abroad or if you have a US visa you can try entering via the US land border. As a PR you will be let in but can be reported at the border for not being compliant with your RO. If reported you will have 15 days to appeal or thr process of losing your PR status will start. If you are not reported at the border you have to remain in Canada for 2years without leaving and not have any contact with IRCC. In many provinces you will not be able to get a new health card until you have a valid PR card which will take 2-3 years. Your SIN# will likely be on hold because it has been inactive for so long. It’s imposdibke for anyone to predict whether your child will be able to retain their PR status,
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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The minor (age less than 10 years) in question received his permanent residency (PR) and PR Card (in 2007) but had to go back to his home country with his family (and did not come back to Canada) due to family emergencies. Hence, the residency obligations were not met. He had his PR expired more than 10 years ago. Now, that minor is more than 22 years old.

Circumstances beyond the person’s control: Permanent resident status determination - Canada.ca

What are his options now? Can his Permanent Residency be renewed now?
Somewhat Short Version:

A PR removed from Canada while a minor will ordinarily have a very good shot at keeping PR status as long as the PR makes an effort to return to Canada very soon after attaining the age of majority, or soon after being more or less emancipated prior to the age of majority. The current age of majority is 22.

There is no guarantee. Factors influencing the odds are complicated. See longer version.

To take that shot the young PR needs to apply for a PR Travel Document, and again do that very soon after attaining the age of majority, or soon after being more or less emancipated prior to the age of majority. For a young PR with status to travel to the U.S., they can return to Canada that way without applying for a PR TD. Different risks and different odds, so it is very difficult to forecast which is the better approach for the PR who has the option to do either.

Main advantage of applying for a PR TD: the PR finds out if they will be allowed to keep PR status before investing in travel to Canada, and if a PR TD coded RC-1 is issued, meaning it is based on H&C relief, that PR should be able to apply for a new PR card soon after coming to and establishing a long term residence in Canada.

Disadvantage of applying for a PR TD, the other side of which is the main advantage of returning to Canada via the U.S., is that the risk of a PR TD being denied is significantly more than the risk of being issued a Removal Order at the border, and even if a Removal Order is issued at the border, the PR can still proceed into Canada and stay pending an appeal, which typically improves the odds of a successful appeal.


Longer Version:

The PR who was removed from Canada while a minor is perhaps one of the more if not most common types of cases in which H&C relief is allowed for a PR with an extensive, lengthy breach of the PR Residency Obligation (small breaches are different, relief rooted mostly in leniency, compared to cases in which the reason for the lengthy absence matters a lot). PRs who have spent zero days in Canada in the relevant five years, but who were removed from Canada while a minor, have gotten H&C relief allowing them to keep their status and live in Canada.

The fact that the PR was removed from Canada as a minor does NOT, however, guarantee H&C relief. Other factors can and often will still have influence, recognizing that assessing the H&C case always entails balancing conflicting factors.

In addition to the factors described at the IRCC web page you linked, ties in or to Canada can be a factor having much influence in how it goes. Should be obvious, the more ties or the stronger the ties, the more that is a positive factor favouring allowing H&C relief. So, just as one example among many, a rather obvious example, for the PR whose family was in Canada only briefly and the PR likewise only in Canada briefly, and otherwise the PR has established minimal if any ongoing ties to Canada, there is a risk that despite being removed as a minor this PR does not get H&C relief, or at least this PR does not have nearly the same odds of success getting H&C relief as a PR who was living long term in Canada as a child but then removed by a parent.

And of course how soon after it becomes practically possible for the PR to return to Canada is an influential factor.

I disagree a bit with the characterization about the difference between returning soon after turning 18 versus 22, but there is no doubt, the closer to 18 the PR is when they apply for a PR TD (or if they can, when they otherwise return to Canada -- this mostly about being able to travel to Canada via the U.S./Canada land border), the better the odds are they will be allowed to keep PR status. The real difference is that much of a delay past age 22 will likely hurt the case significantly, and the longer past the 22nd birthday, the more it will hurt.

Some of the confusion about the influence of age, 18 versus 22, is that over the years the law has changed, going up and down, largely depending on whether there is a less-immigrant-friendly Conservative government or a more-immigrant-friendly Liberal government.

The other factor, in this, is that on an individual level the extent to which a person is more or less acting as an independent adult varies widely. Many 18 years are clearly independent, more or less of "majority" age in a practical sense. Meanwhile, nonetheless, many 21 and 22 year old individuals are still heavily dependent on and more or less managed by their parent(s).

Remember, a key factor, and the key factor for extensive breaches involving very little time in Canada during the preceding five years, is the extent to which the PR pursues a return to Canada as soon as possible. This will vary widely from one person to another. When the PR turns 22, however, the presumption is they are an emancipated adult and making decisions for themselves, so the number of days a PR continues staying abroad after the 22nd birthday is going to have a far bigger, more negative impact, than how much past 18 (but still short of 22) a removed-as-a-minor PR makes the move to return to Canada.

Between 18 and 22, what MIGHT (we do not really know the extent to which particular elements are the focus of attention) make a significant difference is whether or not the individual has been in fact (in a practical sense) more or less emancipated. There is a difference between the PR still in school or living with parent after age 18, for example, versus one who has left home and is working and living independently.

Warrants remembering there are other things which will mean a person is of majority age or emancipated from their parents. Marriage or being in a common-law relationship, just living in a marital-like relationship with another and away from home, will indicate emancipation. So a married 17 year old is in a very different situation, relative to this issue, than a PR turning 22 but still living at home and attending school.

OVERALL:

Generally the odds are good so long as the effort to come to Canada is not delayed much past when the PR is of majority. There are some cases suggesting extent of stay or settlement in Canada prior to being removed as a minor can be a significant factor.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
58,991
14,609
Somewhat Short Version:

A PR removed from Canada while a minor will ordinarily have a very good shot at keeping PR status as long as the PR makes an effort to return to Canada very soon after attaining the age of majority, or soon after being more or less emancipated prior to the age of majority. The current age of majority is 22.

There is no guarantee. Factors influencing the odds are complicated. See longer version.

To take that shot the young PR needs to apply for a PR Travel Document, and again do that very soon after attaining the age of majority, or soon after being more or less emancipated prior to the age of majority. For a young PR with status to travel to the U.S., they can return to Canada that way without applying for a PR TD. Different risks and different odds, so it is very difficult to forecast which is the better approach for the PR who has the option to do either.

Main advantage of applying for a PR TD: the PR finds out if they will be allowed to keep PR status before investing in travel to Canada, and if a PR TD coded RC-1 is issued, meaning it is based on H&C relief, that PR should be able to apply for a new PR card soon after coming to and establishing a long term residence in Canada.

Disadvantage of applying for a PR TD, the other side of which is the main advantage of returning to Canada via the U.S., is that the risk of a PR TD being denied is significantly more than the risk of being issued a Removal Order at the border, and even if a Removal Order is issued at the border, the PR can still proceed into Canada and stay pending an appeal, which typically improves the odds of a successful appeal.


Longer Version:

The PR who was removed from Canada while a minor is perhaps one of the more if not most common types of cases in which H&C relief is allowed for a PR with an extensive, lengthy breach of the PR Residency Obligation (small breaches are different, relief rooted mostly in leniency, compared to cases in which the reason for the lengthy absence matters a lot). PRs who have spent zero days in Canada in the relevant five years, but who were removed from Canada while a minor, have gotten H&C relief allowing them to keep their status and live in Canada.

The fact that the PR was removed from Canada as a minor does NOT, however, guarantee H&C relief. Other factors can and often will still have influence, recognizing that assessing the H&C case always entails balancing conflicting factors.

In addition to the factors described at the IRCC web page you linked, ties in or to Canada can be a factor having much influence in how it goes. Should be obvious, the more ties or the stronger the ties, the more that is a positive factor favouring allowing H&C relief. So, just as one example among many, a rather obvious example, for the PR whose family was in Canada only briefly and the PR likewise only in Canada briefly, and otherwise the PR has established minimal if any ongoing ties to Canada, there is a risk that despite being removed as a minor this PR does not get H&C relief, or at least this PR does not have nearly the same odds of success getting H&C relief as a PR who was living long term in Canada as a child but then removed by a parent.

And of course how soon after it becomes practically possible for the PR to return to Canada is an influential factor.

I disagree a bit with the characterization about the difference between returning soon after turning 18 versus 22, but there is no doubt, the closer to 18 the PR is when they apply for a PR TD (or if they can, when they otherwise return to Canada -- this mostly about being able to travel to Canada via the U.S./Canada land border), the better the odds are they will be allowed to keep PR status. The real difference is that much of a delay past age 22 will likely hurt the case significantly, and the longer past the 22nd birthday, the more it will hurt.

Some of the confusion about the influence of age, 18 versus 22, is that over the years the law has changed, going up and down, largely depending on whether there is a less-immigrant-friendly Conservative government or a more-immigrant-friendly Liberal government.

The other factor, in this, is that on an individual level the extent to which a person is more or less acting as an independent adult varies widely. Many 18 years are clearly independent, more or less of "majority" age in a practical sense. Meanwhile, nonetheless, many 21 and 22 year old individuals are still heavily dependent on and more or less managed by their parent(s).

Remember, a key factor, and the key factor for extensive breaches involving very little time in Canada during the preceding five years, is the extent to which the PR pursues a return to Canada as soon as possible. This will vary widely from one person to another. When the PR turns 22, however, the presumption is they are an emancipated adult and making decisions for themselves, so the number of days a PR continues staying abroad after the 22nd birthday is going to have a far bigger, more negative impact, than how much past 18 (but still short of 22) a removed-as-a-minor PR makes the move to return to Canada.

Between 18 and 22, what MIGHT (we do not really know the extent to which particular elements are the focus of attention) make a significant difference is whether or not the individual has been in fact (in a practical sense) more or less emancipated. There is a difference between the PR still in school or living with parent after age 18, for example, versus one who has left home and is working and living independently.

Warrants remembering there are other things which will mean a person is of majority age or emancipated from their parents. Marriage or being in a common-law relationship, just living in a marital-like relationship with another and away from home, will indicate emancipation. So a married 17 year old is in a very different situation, relative to this issue, than a PR turning 22 but still living at home and attending school.

OVERALL:

Generally the odds are good so long as the effort to come to Canada is not delayed much past when the PR is of majority. There are some cases suggesting extent of stay or settlement in Canada prior to being removed as a minor can be a significant factor.
Whether a child is attending university/college and is no longer living at home may also make a big difference.
 

chicken8060

Newbie
Dec 30, 2022
6
0
Thank you @canuck78 and @dpenabill for the extensive answer for my query. It really does have very important information.


Between 18 and 22, what MIGHT (we do not really know the extent to which particular elements are the focus of attention) make a significant difference is whether or not the individual has been in fact (in a practical sense) more or less emancipated. There is a difference between the PR still in school or living with parent after age 18, for example, versus one who has left home and is working and living independently.
Whether a child is attending university/college and is no longer living at home may also make a big difference.
The person in question completed his bachelor's degree from his home country (while living with his parents), worked full-time (45 hours/week) on a permanent basis for 1 year for a company (outside Canada) (still living with his parents) which is a subsidiary of a Canadian company, left the job, and is now doing his masters (2 years degree) from abroad (student visa is issued) (not living with his parents).

The person comes under the category of a skilled worker (TEER 1), has 8 bands in IELTS-Academic (L-8.5, R-8.5, W-7.0, S-7.0) and has a Comprehensive Ranking System formula grand total of 410 .

Q1) In your opinion, what are the chances of this profile getting the PRTD. I know the decision totally lies with the immigration officer; I am just asking for an overview of the profile.

Q2) What if the person first tries to get a part-time remote job while working for a company in Canada and then applies for the PRTD based on H&C using the above-mentioned profile?

Q3) Should the person renounce his PR and then apply for PR based on Express Entry if his PRTD application gets denied?

Best regards and thank you once again.
 
Last edited:

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,533
3,294
The person in question completed his bachelor's degree from his home country (while living with his parents), worked full-time (45 hours/week) on a permanent basis for 1 year for a company (outside Canada) (still living with his parents) which is a subsidiary of a Canadian company, left the job, and is now doing his masters (2 years degree) from abroad (student visa is issued) (not living with his parents).

The person comes under the category of a skilled worker (TEER 1), has 8 bands in IELTS-Academic (L-8.5, R-8.5, W-7.0, S-7.0) and has a Comprehensive Ranking System formula grand total of 410 .

Q1) In your opinion, what are the chances of this profile getting the PRTD. I know the decision totally lies with the immigration officer; I am just asking for an overview of the profile.

Q2) What if the person first tries to get a part-time remote job while working for a company in Canada and then applies for the PRTD based on H&C using the above-mentioned profile?

Q3) Should the person renounce his PR and then apply for PR based on Express Entry if his PRTD application gets denied?

Best regards and thank you once again.
The PR's current age, subject to indications of independence, and the extent to which they were settled and living in Canada before being removed as a minor, are the biggest factors.

I am NO expert and there are so many variables that can influence how things go in any particular case it really is near impossible to offer even a ballpark estimation of probabilities. That said, the circumstances you describe appear to indicate this individual probably had the means to return to Canada well before now. That hurts the removed-as-a-minor H&C case considerably.

No harm in making a PR TD application and making the best case one can. $50 Canadian last I looked.

The relatively insignificant work-related ties to Canada probably do not help. Just working, in contrast, suggests sufficient independence to weigh against claiming an effort to return to Canada as soon as reasonably practical.

A job working remotely for a Canadian company is not likely to help. In contrast, the sooner the PR TD is made (NOT WAITING for anything more) the better the odds. Whether this is about applying sooner to avoid not-so-good odds getting worse, or is in neighbourhood of almost-no-chance made worse by waiting, I will not try to guess.
 
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chicken8060

Newbie
Dec 30, 2022
6
0
If the person then wants to apply for PR (after PRTD application refusal), would he first have to renounce his PR and then apply for another PR?
 

Besram

Hero Member
Jun 13, 2019
275
209
If the person then wants to apply for PR (after PRTD application refusal), would he first have to renounce his PR and then apply for another PR?
It's not possible to apply for PR while still having PR status. You would either have to wait until PR status is revoked following the PRTD refusal, or give up PR status.