Marrying someone overseas

[heyhaylie01]

Hi there,

I just have like a big question right now. I went to Canada and filed a refugee claim and on that time I met my boyfriend that is a Canadian citizen. We've been dating for almost two years but my refugee claim was rejected and I sent back home. We couldn't get married for reasons out of our hands.. like us being a difference race, he being tamil and me being chinese. Another reason was money problem, he wasn't working as much as right now, so he couldn't move out and live with me. I couldn't get married because I was very young ( age 16-17) ( i know it sounds like I'm a kid but I'm very mature and I can take care of myself) ( came to Canada by myself ). . So know I'm 18 but I was sent back. My boyfriend is currently 20 years old. Is there a way my boyfriend and I could get married overseas and then apply for spousal sponsorship? Being far away from each other its really hard for us. We dated secretly too, because scared of people seeing us and then somehow parents knowing. I wasn't working at that time either because I was focused on finishing high school with the highest mark I could. What proves can we give immigration? what legal processes will have to be undertaken? I know getting deported raises a lot of doubts, but my relationship is genuine and we still keep talking everyday hoping we will be able to be together one day again. I like to be independent from my parents, my boyfriend likes that too. So we plan on living together if everything goes well. That way our parents don't intervene in our relationship. Any advice or experience will be very much appreciated.

 

[tuyen]

Hi there,

I just have like a big question right now. I went to Canada and filed a refugee claim and on that time I met my boyfriend that is a Canadian citizen. We've been dating for almost two years but my refugee claim was rejected and I sent back home.

I'm curious why you wanted to file a refugee claim? You mentioned that you were Chinese, so I assume you're living in China? There are much easier ways to get into Canada from China than a refugee claim.

I couldn't get married because I was very young ( age 16-17) ( i know it sounds like I'm a kid but I'm very mature and I can take care of myself) ( came to Canada by myself ). .

The legal age to get married in Canada is 16...so if you felt you were "very mature", there was nothing legally preventing you from getting married. I personally would never advise a child to get married, and at 16-17, yes, you're still a child, no matter how mature you consider yourself to be - but the option was there for you if you wanted to do it.

Is there a way my boyfriend and I could get married overseas and then apply for spousal sponsorship?

Yes, you can get married in a third country and then your boyfriend/future husband could file a spousal sponsorship application for you from inside Canada.

I know getting deported raises a lot of doubts

Did you actually get deported, or was your refugee claim simply refused? Those are two very different things. If your refugee claim was refused, and you left of your own accord (without the Canadian government coming to find you and put you on a plane), then it will not be as serious of an offense as somebody who was denied refugee status and then stayed in Canada anyway until he or she was forcefully deported.

Your biggest obstacle will be to answer why you felt you needed to file a refugee claim, especially if there was no validity to it.

What proves can we give immigration? what legal processes will have to be undertaken?

Keep as much proof of everything you have. This includes e-mails, letters, gifts, travel documents such as plane tickets from when you visited each other, a video of your marriage ceremony, your marriage certificate, etc etc etc. The more evidence you have, the better it will be for the chances of a successful application.

 

[amikety]

Here is the main pain for Family Immigration:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/index.asp

Spouse:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse.asp

Guide 3900 - very helpful:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/3900ETOC.asp#3900E2

As tuyen mentioned, if you were actually deported, you may have to apply to reinstate your admissibility to Canada. This is called ARC. However, if you left before the order was up, you are most likely okay.

Be forewarned. You're a failed refugee claimant. CIC will thorough review your application, because it will be suspect for a Marriage of Convience (MOC). You've already expressed a desire to remain permanently in Canada and they will try to determine at what cost. I am not making judgements about your relationship, feelings, or love for your boyfriend, just stating my opinion based on the cases I have read here on the forum.

You are more than welcome to marry almost anywhere you like as long as it's a legal marriage in that country. Canada won't recognise marriages that aren't legal in their country of origin. (For example, if you marry in a country where you must be older than 18, it wouldn't be valid.)

There are some of us out there who haven't shared our relationship with our families either. It's not common, but not unheard of either. I suggest you start reading about relationship proof (use the search bar near the top right of the page) and collect a good amount of evidence. And FYI, just to save some headache later, since you're Chinese and he's Tamil, write your emails/letters/cards in English or French. You won't have to get them translated later. (All proofs must be in English or French or translated to English/French.)

 

[tuyen]

Here is the main pain for Family Immigration:

The main pain..

I suppose for many people, it really is a pain..

 

[amikety]

The main pain..

I suppose for many people, it really is a pain..

No comment. :

 

[heyhaylie01]

Wow! very helpful ! I'm so thankful for all your responses..
@ Tuyen I'm actually from Panama, but my parents are chinese descendents, therefore that makes me chinese. I filed a refugee claim because of an incident here in Panama that immediately prompt my departure from Panama. I was very confident about my refugee claim but seems the laws are getting tougher and tougher, and well, I was still afraid of going back, and I'm still now that I'm back home, so now I'm just staying home, not going outside. To get married overseas, does both spouses have to be present at the moment of filing the application? Doesn't that beats the purpose of an "overseas marriage"? It would be so hard for him to come here, and where would he stay? I actually didn't know much about legal terms at age 16. I was completely alone, I just figured out everything myself. I didn't know I had a "departure" order that then turned a deportation order. I filed the refugee claim so that's why I stayed after the 30 days notice. But as soon as all the applications were rejected I did what they told me and I left because I didn't want to get in any more trouble and braking more laws. The way I came to Canada was not my decision. And I feel so bad because my parents did what was the quickest way of sending me out of the country but now this backfired me and now I can't even come back in any way. Pretty sad about this.

 

[tuyen]

Wow! very helpful ! I'm so thankful for all your responses..
@ Tuyen I'm actually from Panama, but my parents are chinese descendents, therefore that makes me chinese. I filed a refugee claim because of an incident here in Panama that immediately prompt my departure from Panama. I was very confident about my refugee claim but seems the laws are getting tougher and tougher, and well, I was still afraid of going back, and I'm still now that I'm back home, so now I'm just staying home, not going outside.

Are you able to say what exactly happened over there that made it necessary for you try and claim refugee status in Canada? I'm very tuned in to world affairs, but I know of nothing that happened within Panama during the last couple of years that would've created so much turmoil as to prompt people to flee the country.

To get married overseas, does both spouses have to be present at the moment of filing the application?

Yes, you will both have to be there to sign your marriage license, and also for the ceremony, unless you want to try and do a proxy marriage (where one or both parties are not physically present).

Most countries don't allow proxy marriages, but it's legal in a few places such as Mexico, Paraguay, and 3 or 4 states in the U.S.

Canada will recognize a proxy marriage as being legal ONLY if it was done in a country where it is also legally recognized.

But honestly...is that really how you want to get married? Not only does it seem incredibly tacky, but it will also be yet ANOTHER obstacle that you will have to overcome with CIC, because you will have to convince them not just that you're legally married, but also that you've consummated the marriage. And do you really want to describe the details of that event to an immigration officer in a way that would convince him?

Doesn't that beats the purpose of an "overseas marriage"?

No, because an overseas marriage means you get married overseas (outside of your home country). He could come to your country, or you could both go to a third country.

It would be so hard for him to come here, and where would he stay?

Don't they have hotels where you live?

I didn't know I had a "departure" order that then turned a deportation order. I filed the refugee claim so that's why I stayed after the 30 days notice.

Unfortunately, you won't be able to use the "I didn't know" excuse with immigration officials. So the only thing you can do is explain your situation as best as you can, and hope that somebody will be sympathetic to your story and believe you.

 

[amikety]

You actually mail the application in. You fill your part, mail it to him, and he mails it to Immigration.

Refugee is getting tougher because its been abused. Even when Honduras had the coup, refugee status wasn't granted. You have to show you are in immediate danger not perceived.

 

[tuyen]

You actually mail the application in. You fill your part, mail it to him, and he mails it to Immigration.

I think she was referring to the marriage application (marriage license), wanting to know if both people would have to be physically present in order to get married.

 

[amikety]

Maybe but Benylin said otherwise.

Marriage by proxy sounds like a horrible idea. Just read a case where sponsorship was denied because the husband divorced his previous wife over the phone. Not valid! Made the new marriage not valid too.

 

[tuyen]

Maybe but Benylin said otherwise.

Marriage by proxy sounds like a horrible idea. Just read a case where sponsorship was denied because the husband divorced his previous wife over the phone. Not valid! Made the new marriage not valid too.

Oh I agree completely...which is why I strongly advised against it. The whole concept is completely insane to me...and I'm actually surprised that CIC would even recognize it as a real marriage, but at the same time, I'm willing to bet that they would quickly reject 99 out of every 100 such applications, and rightfully so.

P.S. Get well soon - and keep an eye on your heart rate to make sure it's in the normal range after taking Benylin.

 

[amikety]

There's actually quite a few threads with advice regarding proxy marriage. OP, if you like you can use the search bar to read up on that as well. I used the search term "marriage by proxy." Most of the advice was on the positive side.

Benylin knocks me out. I can only take 1 and I'm fast asleep in about an hour. This includes the daytime version - that actually makes me more sleepy than the nighttime pill. Go figure........ I did have problems with my heart when the dentist gave me Novacaine (probably butchered the spelling), but I suspect that was an allergic reaction.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Oh I agree completely...which is why I strongly advised against it. The whole concept is completely insane to me...and I'm actually surprised that CIC would even recognize it as a real marriage, but at the same time, I'm willing to bet that they would quickly reject 99 out of every 100 such applications, and rightfully so.

P.S. Get well soon - and keep an eye on your heart rate to make sure it's in the normal range after taking Benylin.

1. Yes, CIC will recognize proxy marriages, under the following conditions:

At a proxy marriage one of the participants is not present and has named a
proxy to represent him or her. If the law of the country in which the marriage
ceremony was performed permits proxy marriages, they are legal marriages
for immigration purposes, provided they are legal under Canadian federal
law. See definition of “marriage” above and also Section 5.27 above.

A marriage in which one of the participants is not physically present and is
not represented by a proxy but participates directly by telephone is a legal
marriage if it is legally recognized according to the law of the place where it
occurred. This is a legal marriage for immigration purposes provided it
meets the Canadian federal requirements, with respect to consanguinity and
polygamy/bigamy

For some bedtime reading on how the IRB deals with refusals based on proxy marriages go to http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/index.html and search on Proxy. Should get about 250 hits.

 

[canadianwoman]

CIC will accept proxy marriages and telephone marriages, but I really advise against doing it this way. This is because you have so much going against you getting accepted already. Adding a proxy marriage to the list of problems will probably lead to a rejection.
Have him come visit you, and keep all the proof you can get that he came. Try to get both families to accept your relationship and attend the wedding too. If not possible, at least try to have as romantic and meaningful ceremony as possible. You will then have to explain why your parents don't accept the relationship - other people have been accepted even without parental approval, but if you could get it, it would help.

 

[steaky]

Don't they have hotels where you live?

Even not, many people choose to camp.